Astar/ABX -- Teamster or ALPA?

[fodc8]

I think this thread is premature. My finance guy called me and told me to get ready to sell my ABX stock. He said that on Wall street when an informal offer to buy is made public it is intended to raise the stock price so the Execs can pull the ripcords of their golden parachutes. Then the deal is trashed and the stock price crashes and the remains are picked apart at a low price. Everyone wins. I think the cleansing process is far from over and as I understand it Joe is not ready to stop running an airline. The real question is what will be what will be left at the end, and what exactly will Joe be taking with him. I'm pretty sure Astar will never be teamsters but I like the free coke Machine.

 

[ABXbooger]

right now I wish I was a member of the IPA...

 

[Cargoav8or]

Interesting thought. Looking back Daz has always talked about the "cleansing" of ABX before he did anything. Thought it odd that he would try to buy all of it, but then what do we know. I don't see a great future in 9s but that goes for B4s, 72s or 8s. I guess nothing is impossible.

The Market today says $7.99, were getting closer.

 

[Cargoav8or]

What makes you think they'll merge you. Why not consolidate some ops then the crews against each other. Its the holding company thats doing the buying, true....false?

What holding company? As far as I know and I may be wrong, Astar has no holding companies. ABX recently formed a holding company, but nobody knows why. Maybe Daz will buy ABX put the parts he wants from both airlines in it and sh$t everything else.

Booger I'm with you, I wish I were a member of the IPA to right now. We have had a few leave in the last couple of months and more on the way. Hope some of your guys have been putting out their trash. This ACMI business sucks!

 

[ABXbooger]

Seriously, as a former regional pilot, I have a very bitter view of ALPA. Seems like we are in kind of the same boat as the regionals in respect to our size and position in the market. I always had a problem with the pilots from UAL, DAL, and at that time TWA making decisions for the combined union, which always favored the larger carriers. Teamsters are not perfect, far from it, but the level of support and the facilities we have built in ILN are excellent. Our staff is amazing. Don't forget there is a very large movement to unionize both the ground workers and the ABX mechanics. I have a feeling this announcement will speed that along.

 

[penguin22]

What makes you think they'll merge you. Why not consolidate some ops then the crews against each other. Its the holding company thats doing the buying, true....false?

First off, its ABX that has the holding company, but its Astar (Dasburg) that is trying to buy ABX. And we think we would get merged because Dasburg said it himself in his letter to ABX’s BOD..

“Accordingly, we believe that we would well serve our respective shareholders and other stakeholders by exploring a potential merger between our two companies. We also believe that this should be done in an expeditious fashion so as to avoid unnecessary disruption of ABX's and ASTAR's employees, customers and businesses.”

The figure of 80-90 million in annual savings to DHL has been repeatedly tossed around as how much they’d save by having just one airline. Whatever the number is, it’s probably the driving reason why DHL is making this thing happen. We’re gonna get merged.

That said, this thing is far from a done deal. The price is too low (that’s not my opinion, that’s the markets opinion. ABXA is still trading at 8 bucks, a good premium over Dasburg’s offer) and Joe knows he’s on the way out; he’s going to want to take some 767s with him and do this ANA thing. (that part IS my opinion; I could be wrong) That was probably the original intent of the new ABX Holdings. He’s going to split off as much as he can get away with and start fresh in Japan. If I’m right, a bunch of us at ABX could have a big decision to make.

 

[Cargoav8or]

Seriously, as a former regional pilot, I have a very bitter view of ALPA. Seems like we are in kind of the same boat as the regionals in respect to our size and position in the market. I always had a problem with the pilots from UAL, DAL, and at that time TWA making decisions for the combined union, which always favored the larger carriers. Teamsters are not perfect, far from it, but the level of support and the facilities we have built in ILN are excellent. Our staff is amazing. Don't forget there is a very large movement to unionize both the ground workers and the ABX mechanics. I have a feeling this announcement will speed that along.

My biggest problem with Teamsters is your problem with ALPA. I have a feeling that they will pay more attention to the big money. That being from maids, truck drivers, doc workers. I think their airline division is way to small. There is a lot more going on outside ILN and I want my union to be a part of that. Especially with the open skies movement, etc... Are the teamsters back into the AFLCIO. I suspect they are not playing nice,nice with the folks in Washington. As pilots we need all the help we can get.

We can still have a good working relationship with the other unions on the field and achieve the same results. The one we have with the 1224 needs to change and fast before to many get left out in the cold.

ONE VOICE.

 

[fodc8]

Would Joe take the certificate and leave just assets behind?

 

[penguin22]

Alpa has a louder voice in gov't concerning airline business.

I don’t think so. Ask some of our gov’t affairs committee members about the reception they get in congressional offices. One of em tells a story about how a bunch of pilots were meeting with various congressmen on some issue. When they were introduced to one of the congressmen in his office, as soon as our guy said he represented Teamsters, the congressman grabbed his hand, pulled him past all the ALPA guys, and sat him down in front. It seems the Teamsters could swing quite a few more votes in the congressman’s district than ALPA. That’ll be true in every congressional district.
We all know money talks in Congress. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet the Teamster lobby has more $$ than the ALPA lobby.

 

[penguin22]

Penguin,

Does that machine have Mountain Dew? If it does, count me in! We'll bring our flatscreen TV's though, ok?

hey, my airplane has flat screen! Four of em in fact!

 

[Cargoav8or]

I don’t think so. Ask some of our gov’t affairs committee members about the reception they get in congressional offices. One of em tells a story about how a bunch of pilots were meeting with various congressmen on some issue. When they were introduced to one of the congressmen in his office, as soon as our guy said he represented Teamsters, the congressman grabbed his hand, pulled him past all the ALPA guys, and sat him down in front. It seems the Teamsters could swing quite a few more votes in the congressman’s district than ALPA. That’ll be true in every congressional district.
We all know money talks in Congress. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet the Teamster lobby has more $$ than the ALPA lobby.

I'm sure we are all getting stories from the various sides. Without being there I can't tell you which ones or true or not. It is only my perception and you have yours. I see 60,000 Alpa members and have no idea how many airline teamster members there are. I can't see them have a large sway in the airline industry. If, If this whole thing shakes out it should be interesting.

I'm out.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

We all need to change tack

right now I wish I was a member of the IPA...

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

 

[AV8OR]

hey, my airplane has flat screen! Four of em in fact!

Touche' peng......touche'

 

[penguin22]

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

No flames from me. except to light your cigar.

Well said.

 

[ABXbooger]

No flames. From my position, this could very well be a good thing, for everyone. I am in a bad position seniority wise and am nervous about what will happen short-term (furloughs...again). Long term, I think this provides the stability that we all look for in a career. DHL is going to grow, and has made huge strides in the last years.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

First off, its ABX that has the holding company, but its Astar (Dasburg) that is trying to buy ABX. And we think we would get merged because Dasburg said it himself in his letter to ABX’s BOD..

“Accordingly, we believe that we would well serve our respective shareholders and other stakeholders by exploring a potential merger between our two companies. We also believe that this should be done in an expeditious fashion so as to avoid unnecessary disruption of ABX's and ASTAR's employees, customers and businesses.”

P'22 & Booger Thanks for the nod.

As for the holding company thing, this is from the same letter:

"As you are aware, beginning in December 2006, ABX Air chief executive officer and president Joe Hete and I have had informal conversations in which I, on behalf of ASTAR, advised Mr. Hete of ASTAR's desire to pursue an all-cash acquisition of ABX Air. On June 19, 2007, I advised Mr. Hete telephonically that the boards of directors of ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings, LLC and its subsidiaries (collectively, "ASTAR")"

I had no idea (and that's exactly the way Dasburg wants it) that our corperate structure was such. What else does Cabana Boy have hiding up his sleeve. On second thought, I might not want to know.

 

[hvydriver]

hey, my airplane has flat screen! Four of em in fact!

LOL! Well, ok, but can you get football on that thing? Oh, someone else was saying that Astar doesn't have a holding company. In fact, we do. Astar Air Cargo Holdings, LLC. Which owns Astar. There could be a lot of movin' and groovin' going on before the dust settles over this deal. (Edited, 'cause someone beat me to the holding company thingy. DUHOH!)

 

[Cargoav8or]

LOL! Well, ok, but can you get football on that thing? Oh, someone else was saying that Astar doesn't have a holding company. In fact, we do. Astar Air Cargo Holdings, LLC. Which owns Astar. There could be a lot of movin' and groovin' going on before the dust settles over this deal. (Edited, 'cause someone beat me to the holding company thingy. DUHOH!)

OOOHHH, bummer.

 

[shooter]

P'22 & Booger Thanks for the nod.

As for the holding company thing, this is from the same letter:

"As you are aware, beginning in December 2006, ABX Air chief executive officer and president Joe Hete and I have had informal conversations in which I, on behalf of ASTAR, advised Mr. Hete of ASTAR's desire to pursue an all-cash acquisition of ABX Air. On June 19, 2007, I advised Mr. Hete telephonically that the boards of directors of ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings, LLC and its subsidiaries (collectively, "ASTAR")"

I had no idea (and that's exactly the way Dasburg wants it) that our corperate structure was such. What else does Cabana Boy have hiding up his sleeve. On second thought, I might not want to know.

I would think ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings was formed when Dasburg and his investor group bought DHL Airways from Robinson.

Its still a big puzzle why ABX is forming such a structure.

 

[hanginupsidown]

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

Hit the nail on the head!!! Needless to say Alpa and Teamsters both offer have attractive options. Alpa's national legislative voice is well heard but not necessarily representing the needs of a small cargo airline. I wonder how many decisions have been made in regards to AStar/Alpa with FDX's and the other legacy carriers only interests at heart. Teamsters doesn't exactly bode well in some areas either, but since our inception in the 80's in which Alpa snubbed us they've been totally supportive both nationally and internationally of all 1224's needs. Leverage has definitely been a benefit. We've had some hard fought contracts that DHL/Astar has benefited from, thanks to our hard nose mgmnt. that just unified us even more. IPA has benefited greatly, mainly from unity and use of resources. So no matter what affiliation we decide on, our effectiveness as a union- collaterally will only be apparent by our unity. Hence, IPA....It'a about time we joined sides!