Astar/ABX -- Teamster or ALPA?

[Cargoav8or]

I don’t think so. Ask some of our gov’t affairs committee members about the reception they get in congressional offices. One of em tells a story about how a bunch of pilots were meeting with various congressmen on some issue. When they were introduced to one of the congressmen in his office, as soon as our guy said he represented Teamsters, the congressman grabbed his hand, pulled him past all the ALPA guys, and sat him down in front. It seems the Teamsters could swing quite a few more votes in the congressman’s district than ALPA. That’ll be true in every congressional district.
We all know money talks in Congress. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet the Teamster lobby has more $$ than the ALPA lobby.

I'm sure we are all getting stories from the various sides. Without being there I can't tell you which ones or true or not. It is only my perception and you have yours. I see 60,000 Alpa members and have no idea how many airline teamster members there are. I can't see them have a large sway in the airline industry. If, If this whole thing shakes out it should be interesting.

I'm out.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

We all need to change tack

right now I wish I was a member of the IPA...

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

 

[AV8OR]

hey, my airplane has flat screen! Four of em in fact!

Touche' peng......touche'

 

[penguin22]

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

No flames from me. except to light your cigar.

Well said.

 

[ABXbooger]

No flames. From my position, this could very well be a good thing, for everyone. I am in a bad position seniority wise and am nervous about what will happen short-term (furloughs...again). Long term, I think this provides the stability that we all look for in a career. DHL is going to grow, and has made huge strides in the last years.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

First off, its ABX that has the holding company, but its Astar (Dasburg) that is trying to buy ABX. And we think we would get merged because Dasburg said it himself in his letter to ABX’s BOD..

“Accordingly, we believe that we would well serve our respective shareholders and other stakeholders by exploring a potential merger between our two companies. We also believe that this should be done in an expeditious fashion so as to avoid unnecessary disruption of ABX's and ASTAR's employees, customers and businesses.”

P'22 & Booger Thanks for the nod.

As for the holding company thing, this is from the same letter:

"As you are aware, beginning in December 2006, ABX Air chief executive officer and president Joe Hete and I have had informal conversations in which I, on behalf of ASTAR, advised Mr. Hete of ASTAR's desire to pursue an all-cash acquisition of ABX Air. On June 19, 2007, I advised Mr. Hete telephonically that the boards of directors of ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings, LLC and its subsidiaries (collectively, "ASTAR")"

I had no idea (and that's exactly the way Dasburg wants it) that our corperate structure was such. What else does Cabana Boy have hiding up his sleeve. On second thought, I might not want to know.

 

[hvydriver]

hey, my airplane has flat screen! Four of em in fact!

LOL! Well, ok, but can you get football on that thing? Oh, someone else was saying that Astar doesn't have a holding company. In fact, we do. Astar Air Cargo Holdings, LLC. Which owns Astar. There could be a lot of movin' and groovin' going on before the dust settles over this deal. (Edited, 'cause someone beat me to the holding company thingy. DUHOH!)

 

[Cargoav8or]

LOL! Well, ok, but can you get football on that thing? Oh, someone else was saying that Astar doesn't have a holding company. In fact, we do. Astar Air Cargo Holdings, LLC. Which owns Astar. There could be a lot of movin' and groovin' going on before the dust settles over this deal. (Edited, 'cause someone beat me to the holding company thingy. DUHOH!)

OOOHHH, bummer.

 

[shooter]

P'22 & Booger Thanks for the nod.

As for the holding company thing, this is from the same letter:

"As you are aware, beginning in December 2006, ABX Air chief executive officer and president Joe Hete and I have had informal conversations in which I, on behalf of ASTAR, advised Mr. Hete of ASTAR's desire to pursue an all-cash acquisition of ABX Air. On June 19, 2007, I advised Mr. Hete telephonically that the boards of directors of ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings, LLC and its subsidiaries (collectively, "ASTAR")"

I had no idea (and that's exactly the way Dasburg wants it) that our corperate structure was such. What else does Cabana Boy have hiding up his sleeve. On second thought, I might not want to know.

I would think ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings was formed when Dasburg and his investor group bought DHL Airways from Robinson.

Its still a big puzzle why ABX is forming such a structure.

 

[hanginupsidown]

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

Hit the nail on the head!!! Needless to say Alpa and Teamsters both offer have attractive options. Alpa's national legislative voice is well heard but not necessarily representing the needs of a small cargo airline. I wonder how many decisions have been made in regards to AStar/Alpa with FDX's and the other legacy carriers only interests at heart. Teamsters doesn't exactly bode well in some areas either, but since our inception in the 80's in which Alpa snubbed us they've been totally supportive both nationally and internationally of all 1224's needs. Leverage has definitely been a benefit. We've had some hard fought contracts that DHL/Astar has benefited from, thanks to our hard nose mgmnt. that just unified us even more. IPA has benefited greatly, mainly from unity and use of resources. So no matter what affiliation we decide on, our effectiveness as a union- collaterally will only be apparent by our unity. Hence, IPA....It'a about time we joined sides!

 

[PCL_128]

I don’t think so. Ask some of our gov’t affairs committee members about the reception they get in congressional offices. One of em tells a story about how a bunch of pilots were meeting with various congressmen on some issue. When they were introduced to one of the congressmen in his office, as soon as our guy said he represented Teamsters, the congressman grabbed his hand, pulled him past all the ALPA guys, and sat him down in front. It seems the Teamsters could swing quite a few more votes in the congressman’s district than ALPA. That’ll be true in every congressional district.
We all know money talks in Congress. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet the Teamster lobby has more $$ than the ALPA lobby.

When important members of Congress such as Rep. Mica or Senator Oberstar (both important Committee Chairmen that handle pilot issues) want to know where air line pilots stand, they call one place: the ALPA offices. As far as Congress is concerned, there is only one union that represents pilots. Most of them wouldn't even be aware that Teamsters has an airline division, and they certainly haven't heard of the IPA, NPA, FAPA, etc... When they think pilots, they think ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

Are the teamsters back into the AFLCIO.

Nope. In fact, the IBT still owes the AFL-CIO millions in dues from when they skipped out a couple of years ago.

 

[freighthound]

When important members of Congress such as Rep. Mica or Senator Oberstar (both important Committee Chairmen that handle pilot issues) want to know where air line pilots stand, they call one place: the ALPA offices. As far as Congress is concerned, there is only one union that represents pilots. Most of them wouldn't even be aware that Teamsters has an airline division, and they certainly haven't heard of the IPA, NPA, FAPA, etc... When they think pilots, they think ALPA.

Another uninformed pilot, but keep those dues coming ALPA national needs to keep those half million dollar salaries going.

 

[TWA]

I had no idea (and that's exactly the way Dasburg wants it) that our corperate structure was such. What else does Cabana Boy have hiding up his sleeve. On second thought, I might not want to know.

That's the beautiful thing about a privately held company, they don't have to tell anyone anything. There are no shareholders to answer to.

 

[ABXbooger]

A Message from General President Jim Hoffa

June 29, 2007

On Thursday ASTAR Air Cargo Holdings announced its intentions to purchase ABX Air. I assure employees of both companies that as this potential merger proceeds the Teamsters Union is closely monitoring developments and will act to ensure you have a voice.

We will fight for the interests of all employees at ABX and ASTAR. This includes the more than 700 ABX pilots, who are longstanding members of Local 1224 in Wilmington, Ohio and ABX mechanics, sort workers, ground service and other employees who are working to join our union. We are also monitoring the situation of our members and other workers at ASTAR.

Since DHL bought Airborne Express, we have viewed the company and its related parts as an integrated delivery system. More than 12,000 workers in the DHL system are Teamsters and we are working to ensure our members have a strong voice during any change in the workplace.

After DHL recently decided to purchase a greater stake in ASTAR, we encouraged the company to provide an investment in ABX Air. The pending merger of these two companies, along with the significant investment by DHL, opens a new chapter for DHL in North America. While details of the possible merger are still undetermined, we believe that it will ultimately benefit Teamsters and unrepresented workers in the DHL system.

As the merger proceeds over the next several months, I assure all workers in the DHL system that the entire membership and leadership of the Teamsters Union stands with you.