Eagle gear up go around in SYR today

[Headfake14]

Even big planes have weird failures. I haven't tried to find the report...but I think there was a Delta L-1011 the departed from the west coast. Something broke in the stabtrim system in such a way that the position signal was unaffected. The stab jackscrew drove itself to full nose up...but the trim indication was normal. They guys recovered that one...but it wasn't a fun ride.

I can believe that some crazy failure took place. It's a mechanical thing made by humans...eventually something unusual will happen.

I had a total HYD failure once that shouldn't have happened given the location of the leak.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Not an NTSB Report, but some background info. I had heard the same story that it broke, but gave normal indications so they received no takeoff warning horn for trim. It was when it rotated prematurely that they knew that had a a big problem. ​

L-1011, San Diego, California
In April of 1977, a Lockheed L-1011 trijet, Delta flight 1080, had one of the horizontal stabilizers jam in the full trailing edge-up position prior to an instrument flight rules departure out of San Diego. This resulted in a large noseup pitching and rolling moment that almost exceeded the capability of the flight controls. The airplane was just about to stall in the clouds, when the Captain, using amazing insight, retarded the wing engine throttles and firewalled the center engine. This allowed him to regain enough control to maintain flight. The crew learned rapidly, continuing to use the throttles to supplement the remaining flight controls and moving passengers forward to reduce the pitchup tendency. They completed a safe landing. A less-capable crew would likely have been unable to save this airplane.​

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Not an NTSB Report, but some background info. I had heard the same story that it broke, but gave normal indications so they received no takeoff warning horn for trim. It was when it rotated prematurely that they knew that had a a big problem. ​

L-1011, San Diego, California

In April of 1977, a Lockheed L-1011 trijet, Delta flight 1080, had one of the horizontal stabilizers jam in the full trailing edge-up position prior to an instrument flight rules departure out of San Diego. This resulted in a large noseup pitching and rolling moment that almost exceeded the capability of the flight controls. The airplane was just about to stall in the clouds, when the Captain, using amazing insight, retarded the wing engine throttles and firewalled the center engine. This allowed him to regain enough control to maintain flight. The crew learned rapidly, continuing to use the throttles to supplement the remaining flight controls and moving passengers forward to reduce the pitchup tendency. They completed a safe landing. A less-capable crew would likely have been unable to save this airplane.​

After reading that last sentence, I'd almost swear that General Lee wrote that story. :nuts:

 

[yaya]

From the NTSB:

An American Eagle EMB-135, tail number N731BE, flight number 4539 initially landed with the gear up at Logan International Airport, Boston, Massachusetts. The crew reported that they had an indication that the gear was down and locked but right before touchdown, they noticed a landing gear lever disagree. They executed a go-around and mechanically lowered the landing gear. They were able to get the gear down and locked and got a visual confirmation that the gear was down. The flaps would not extend due to damage from contacting the runway on the intial landing, but the crew was able to successfully land the airplane. There were 37 passengers and 3 crew members on board. No injuries were reported. Eye witnesses to the first landing stated that they did not see the gear down on the approach.

Obviously the crew did a wonderful job! Kudos to them!

 

[FlyinFife]

Yes, but did they at least scrape it along the centerline?

 

[yaya]

Yes, but did they at least scrape it along the centerline?

I dunno, but Why would you try to? Paint is flamable. I'd nudge it a bit to one side.

 

[pdub20s]

Being a EMB145 driver myself ;-) , He had to have initiated that go-around well before the airplane touched the ground. From idle thrust it takes about 8-9 secounds for the Engines to spool to max thrust in t/o-1 mode. And there is a tollerance of 75ft(lookin in the limitations) loss on go around. So they had to have known something was up before that belly hit.

 

[hawaiimei]

Yep, a go around initiated at 50' under CATII conditions easily ends up touching down on the runway if the rotation isn't initiated perfectly.

 

[Inconceivable]

From what the manual says, when the electric hyd valve pump turns off ...that... is the signal to the EICAS to mark the gear as DN/Green (as insane as that is, it just means the pump stopped).

What the F&%*% are they smoking down in that jungle? Is it because their toilets flush the wrong way? You're saying that the "down and locked" indication is in no way related to the gear being either down or locked? That's like having the cabin pressure indication based on the altimeter and all door handles being stowed, even if the door was wide open.

That's just too funny.

My sincere compliments to the crew--hope this incident did not cause any sleepless nights after the fact.

Now maybe we can discuss why no one told them to wave off on short final....THERE is a safety issue we can have impact on.

 

[samballs]

An unnamed large regional maintains company policy to NOT do a tower "fly-by" if you have three green as it could frighten the passengers. I wonder if they'll change that brilliant policy. Dumbarses.

Ahh yes! Comair has many "this makes no sense policys". While I'm on here JC LAwson is fat Ferry

 

[igneousy2]

What the F&%*% are they smoking down in that jungle? Is it because their toilets flush the wrong way? You're saying that the "down and locked" indication is in no way related to the gear being either down or locked? That's like having the cabin pressure indication based on the altimeter and all door handles being stowed, even if the door was wide open.

That's just too funny.

My sincere compliments to the crew--hope this incident did not cause any sleepless nights after the fact.

Now maybe we can discuss why no one told them to wave off on short final....THERE is a safety issue we can have impact on.

The same thing our FEDS are smoking by certifying an airplane that does effectively does not have a down and locked indication system. I thought a transport category airplane had to have two independent methods of verifying the gear is down and locked? 737's have the spare set of lights up on top of the panel. MD-80 has the periscope in the cabin above the mains, DHC-8 has the Alternate lights near the emergency gear pump, I can't remember what the EMB-145 had.

 

[hammer2]

These pilots and pax are very lucky. Pulling it back in the air was probably a reflex once he felt something other than a greaser. Like scraping metal. Ground the fleet.

 

[punkpilot48]

A. Toilets flushing the "wrong way" is an urban myth and has everything to do with design of the toilet only.

B. Does the FOQUA(sp?) data not take care of things like if the gear was selected down?

 

[pdub20s]

Now that I think about it.... If the nose door was spotted open, then they could have had a COMPLETE hydraulic failure. In the event of one the nose wheel door Droops down. e probably for got to drop the gear manually. As far as him noticing the gear not being down cuz he didn't feel the wheels touch is BS. Cuz when he brings that power to idle, that airplane comes down. remember, its a jet. Not a prop! It takes time for those engines to spool up to thrust that will take em back in the air.

 

[blott]

Hey pud(pdu)

yeah, "complete hydraulic failure" 'cause the reports all tell of the difficulty with the ailerons, no brakes, and the lack of stearing.

"power to idle, comes down", good point, since you must have been the ass that pulled the power and caused my spine to be .5mm out of alignment after my last "Freedom" DH....on final-thrust to what had to be idle, I actually had time to look at the guy next to me, say "oh ********************", and yank on the seat belt....to bad aircraft seats are designed to allow you to survive a crash, not walk away from one...

Note-you don't stall a swept wing jet during landing-fly it on....

How long does it take for the engines to "spool up", per the regs....how long...I can stay in ground effect that long-let alone slide it down the runway...

when you've got enough hours to make CA, you will know when it doesn't feel right when it counts(maybe not freedom)---like when you have three green, and you should be on the mains, but aren't, I guess you would probably just be looking out the window grinning 'cause you were in a "jet"...(probably junior man too)


B