No longer a rumor - United will hire..

[Yuppyguppy]

Are you not in upgrade class yet? Man, that would be so sweet if you could get some turbine PIC in your logbook before UAL opens the window! Best of luck, and don't forget to give us AirTran guys a friendly hello in DEN or IAD when you make it to the big leagues!!!!!

Been to your airline lately and left...UAL is the big leagues compared to AAI. Not boasting just a different beast. Best of luck to you and were gonna need some over here...we all need some

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Not boasting just a different beast.

A 767 12 year seniority captain making $154/hour. You could not have being boasting and you are right, it is a different beast

 

[doylehargraves]

Since United will be hiring again, just curious, will you still have to be a mentally incompetent 300 hour single black female with a Spanish surname from Canada to get hired?

 

[Lear70]

Si'.

 

[Kharma Police]

Been to your airline lately and left...UAL is the big leagues compared to AAI. Not boasting just a different beast. Best of luck to you and were gonna need some over here...we all need some

I certainly meant no disrespect to your old (or new) airline. I was just offering some words of encouragement to the enthusiastic “instructor dude” in his quest to work for a major airline. Best of luck!

 

[ralphcramden1]

Since United will be hiring again, just curious, will you still have to be a mentally incompetent 300 hour single black female with a Spanish surname from Canada to get hired?

I don't care who you are, thats funny...lord be with the starving pigmies

 

[instructordude]

I certainly meant no disrespect to your old (or new) airline. I was just offering some words of encouragement to the enthusiastic “instructor dude” in his quest to work for a major airline. Best of luck!

Thanks brother!

 

[PositionandHold]

I must have missed something, but I see a lot of jokes and references to affirmative action and United. Could someone fill me in..

 

[instructordude]

I must have missed something, but I see a lot of jokes and references to affirmative action and United. Could someone fill me in..

Don't forget about the fighter guys!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[ualdriver]

A 767 12 year seniority captain making $154/hour. You could not have being boasting and you are right, it is a different beast

Actually, dumbpilot, you're only looking at the straight hourly rate. We have a 15% TAX DEFERRED contribtion made to our B fund based on that hourly figure. For a pilot in the 25% tax bracket (a 767 guy making that kind of dough is probably in a higher tax bracket however), that equates to a 20% pretax hourly rate increase. So add about 20% to that hourly figure for a typcial pilot. If you're in a higher tax bracket, it's even more than that.

What airline do you work for dumbpilot?

 

[AA717driver]

I must have missed something, but I see a lot of jokes and references to affirmative action and United. Could someone fill me in..

Ok, I'll bite...

In the early '90's, UAL lost a discrimination lawsuit so they had to hire more 'non-white males' (I honestly don't know the details as to how they arrived at this point.).

They were turning down highly qualified (thousands of hours, PIC, jet time, FE turbojet--727 F/E was the starting position then) applicants and hiring females and minorities with less than 1,000 hours TT, little multi-engine and no turbine experience.

It was kind of odd, I knew of a couple women who were highly experienced who didn't get hired. It was almost like they WANTED to hire the least experienced NWM's (non-white males) they could.

There were stories of NWM hires who spent months in the training center because UAL had a "train to proficiency" policy--they shure as he!! couldn't fire THOSE people.

So, to this day, UAL has the reputation of hiring NWM's and being a PC airline. TC

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Ok, I'll bite...

In the early '90's, UAL lost a discrimination lawsuit so they had to hire more 'non-white males' (I honestly don't know the details as to how they arrived at this point.).

They were turning down highly qualified (thousands of hours, PIC, jet time, FE turbojet--727 F/E was the starting position then) applicants and hiring females and minorities with less than 1,000 hours TT, little multi-engine and no turbine experience.

It was kind of odd, I knew of a couple women who were highly experienced who didn't get hired. It was almost like they WANTED to hire the least experienced NWM's (non-white males) they could.

There were stories of NWM hires who spent months in the training center because UAL had a "train to proficiency" policy--they shure as he!! couldn't fire THOSE people.

So, to this day, UAL has the reputation of hiring NWM's and being a PC airline. TC

I know a gal who finally passed her initial checkride on her SIXTH try. I was afraid that if I didn't pass on my first try that I'd be let go. This was 1995.

GP

 

[PositionandHold]

Nevermind. Found my answer on google. Interesting.

 

[ualdriver]

Why'd they lose the suit in the first place? Were they turning down highly qualified minorities prior to it?

We lost the suit (among other EEOC lawsuits for other "indiscretions" like alleged violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act recently) because we were supposedly not hiring the "right amount" of females/minorities, etc., etc. Too many white males, not enough everyone else.

And when reading about this particular EEOC lawsuit, you have to keep in mind the people you're dealing with when discussing it on this forum. There isn't ONE person on this forum who has "real" numbers as to how many minorities UAL hires vs. white males vs. any other group of interest. All ANYONE on this forum knows is that UAL lost the suit and now all we hire are females and minorities and if you're a white male you'll never get hired. Of course that is not true, but again, consider your typical poster on this forum whenever UAL's hiring practices are discussed here.

And it wasn't that UAL was turning away "qualified" minority applicants- they just started running out as obviously all airlines are looking to hire these types of applicants as well as to not feel the wrath of the EEOC and the expense incurred trying to defend a lawsuit. When airlines start hiring like crazy, the pool of high-time/experience minority groups dry up and therefore the minimums go down. Again, take the stories with a big grain of salt.

I would love for ONE PERSON on this forum to stop talking in generalizations and come up with REAL, VERIFIABLE hiring numbers for UAL (or any other number) concerning the hiring of any particular group of pilot. Of course, no one will and the crazy stories, rumors, and innuendo will continue.

 

[AA717driver]

UALdriver--No one here is saying that "all we hire is...". We were explaining how UAL got the reputation it has.

No one pulled this out of their a$$ and created this image. It's real--in the early '90's, UAL gave preference (extreme preference, IMO) to NWM's and it was the result of corporate policy.

No one has the numbers because they aren't public--or haven't been made public.

If you were trying to get hired at UAL in the early '90's and couldn't even get an interview while people you knew were getting hired with much lower qualifications, that's evidence enough. It was a joke in the rest of the industry.

Trying to say that this wasn't an institutional policy is ludicrous. TC

P.S.--No one can tell how the hiring will go this time around. In the late '90's, they adopted a rational policy and seemed to take a broad cross-section of the population without goint to extremes on either end of the spectrum.

 

[dojetdriver]

P.S.--No one can tell how the hiring will go this time around. In the late '90's, they adopted a rational policy and seemed to take a broad cross-section of the population without goint to extremes on either end of the spectrum.

I guess. It was pretty sad when the check airman with a clean record, no pinks/violations, ect can't get the call for a sit dwon but the crack in the right seat of the RJ for six months is being prodded by WIA/The 99's ect to apply because they will hire them with the jet time.

 

[jonjuan]

I guess. It was pretty sad when the check airman with a clean record, no pinks/violations, ect can't get the call for a sit dwon but the crack in the right seat of the RJ for six months is being prodded by WIA/The 99's ect to apply because they will hire them with the jet time.

Snif, snif.......LOL

 

[dojetdriver]

A friend of mine at UA (been there for over a decade) said that when he got hired, the published minimums (despite the actual qualifications of their newhires) were 350 hours.

Anyone know what the new mins are at the moment?

There was a time when the minimum WAS 350 FIXED WING PIC to apply. In the later 90's/2000 era they upped it to what was basically the minimums to apply for an ATp certificate. New hires were going into wide body equipment and would be getting typed in the aircraft serving as FO or IRO. You can give a type rating to a 350 hr pilot but you can't put ATP priveleges on it.

 

[dojetdriver]

Snif, snif.......LOL

I wasn't whinig for me. It was for the guys I worked with that wanted to fly for UAL. Let me guuss, you fit into the non-white or non-male catagory?

 

[Huck]

Based on the last ~7 years, looks to me like Nancy did a bunch of white males a big favor. Including me.


And to the FPU crowd - I bet they still flease their planes.....

 

[MED]

I figure white male minimums around 5000 hrs turbine with at least 6 type ratings and 10 letters of recs from non white males.

Minority mins requiring a commercial multi engine no older than 6 months.

On the link in the first post it contains a diversity statement. Enough said about how they will hire, again.

Get over it!

 

[ualdriver]

UALdriver--No one here is saying that "all we hire is...". We were explaining how UAL got the reputation it has.

No one pulled this out of their a$$ and created this image. It's real--in the early '90's, UAL gave preference (extreme preference, IMO) to NWM's and it was the result of corporate policy.

And I was simply explaining to the guy that asked that the results of that EEOC settlement are greatly exaggerated on this forum. One needs to look no further than the "extreme preference" comment in your post as an example. What exactly does "extreme preference" mean, anyway vs. just the regular "prefence" given these candidates?

The bottom line is that UAL hires a very small percentage of people with low time including interns, sons and daughters, and yes some minority groups. You'll read many crazy stories about our hiring practices. Some are true (like the fallout from that EEOC lawsuit) but the vast majority simply are exaggerated. That's all I'm saying.

 

[vetrider]

I interviewed in 95, didn't get hired. No harm, no foul, what United did then and does now regarding interviews and hiring is their prerogative. But the way they conducted the interview was so distasteful to me that I never applied again. I didn't care what they offered, I didn't want it that bad.

I will say that I do appreciate a little diversity in the pilot force, it makes life more interesting. Competence and incompetence comes in all colors and both sexes.

 

[Hvy]

I must have missed something, but I see a lot of jokes and references to affirmative action and United. Could someone fill me in..

I can. Guys that couldn't get a job at UAL look for reasons to make themselves feel better. Yes, there were women hired...there were minorities hired. But the majority hired (by far) were white males.

 

[Black Hawk]

But the way they conducted the interview was so distasteful to me that I never applied again. I didn't care what they offered, I didn't want it that bad.

I know it's an interview tactic but bad manners are bad manners. I wonder how much cash they'll want from applicants this time around.

 

[propdog]

I can. Guys that couldn't get a job at UAL look for reasons to make themselves feel better. Yes, there were women hired...there were minorities hired. But the majority hired (by far) were white males.

I agree. By the tone of most of the above posts, it sounds like if you are a 'minority', you have it made. If one really research this subject, one will find out that it is far from the truth. I am a non-white US citizen and I had nothing handed down to me (by the way, I do not want anything handed down to me because of my skin color). Nowadays, getting flying jobs are mainly based on all contacts and networking. For example, I got my first regional job after 2 years of flight instructing, 1.5 years of night-freight flying and 3000+ hrs. It took me a while to find my first airline job because I did not know the 'right' people. Nobody came to me and said, "hey, you are not white skinned---why don't you come fly for our airline". Currently I am a captain in a regional with 6000+ hrs with a clean record. I applied to the majors currently hiring and was bypassed many many times by people (whites and non-whites, majority being white males) with much less experience. What did they have I did not have- contacts, family connections etc.

Am I bitter? Absolutely not. I am doing the best job I can right now, build my flight time and resume, develop new friendships, contacts and networks which might one day help me move to a good major. In the meantime, I am also helping others get jobs in my regional airline by providing necessary contacts.

Getting jobs should have nothing to do with sex, race or color---it should be about qualifications, attitude etc. Unfortunately, some people may get jobs based on sex, race etc---but that is not as common as many people in here think. Who said life is fair---what about people getting jobs because their dad or mom is a 777 captain?

 

[pipe]

Had a guy in my class at another airline tell me this one (about himself). He was a Dash 8 check airman with about 5-6000 PIC, really wanted to work at UA. Couldn't seem to get the call. A good friend, who happened to be a member of OBAP suggested that he join OBAP - because anyone can join. He joined and added his membership to his UA application. He received a phone call from within two weeks from a woman at UA who wanted to know how soon they could set up an interview (interviews were running months from the call at the time). As they were talking and she was looking over his app she said "You're not a minority, are you?". When he responded with the truth (NO), she thanked him for his time and let him go.

100% true story. Happened in the 96-97 time frame.

PIPE

 

[Lear70]

Based on the last ~7 years, looks to me like Nancy did a bunch of white males a big favor. Including me.


And to the FPU crowd - I bet they still flease their planes.....

*snicker*

Yeah, did me a favor, too. Interviewed in '99, would have been on the street for YEARS during the worst downturn in aviation history.

Interestingly enough, commuted through DEN a year later and ran into one of my flight school students, a cute female, doing O.E. on the 757. Wasn't really surprised, UAL has been known for their minority hiring for decades...

Of course more white males are hired than anyone else, that's the demographic that makes up the majority of pilots. But I'd bet money that if you compared the number of successful applicants to the number of total applicants in any gender/ethnicity category, that the ratio of WASP males is lower by a good margin.

 

[av8er2]

What is the big deal? Airlines are not a good deal anymore!

 

[jmreii]

Who you know still rules!