WWYD NetJets or Delta?

[Dr Pepper]

I am lucky enough to have job offers to NJA and DAL. I do not have a class date for DAL yet. I am LA bound for NJA. I have been looking at all the variables and have determined that both would be good.

Money - both suck as an FO, but NJA sucks more. As a Capt, NJA eventually appears to win out when you include soft money (holiday, per diem take home vs intl).

Insurance - NJA seems to win.

Travel benefits - DAL clear winner

Retirement - NJA has 50% match, DAL has 2% 401K no match required and 9% contribution into B-Fund. Dealers choice on the winner here. If you can afford to max out, NJA wins. If not, DAL.

Domicile - I am not a huge fan of any of them at DAL and would likely be a commuter. NJA domicile system sucks as well. It is unlikely, in my opinion, that it will ever change. Old guys won't support getting rid of it at if it affects their bottom line and unless you are in LA or TEB, you might not care too much either. I am wondering how people survive in LA. That is a lifetime of Top Ramen. This is a huge factor that gives me the most grief because it affects the next section.

QOL - Commuting would suck - DAL. Living in a closet would suck - NJA in LA. Who is the bigger pain in the arse over the years? Filthy rich or the people in the cattle cars? This is probably one of the more subjective categories to consider, but probably one of the most important

Flying - Knowing where you are going and when, or not having a clue until the gear is up. I have done the later with the military and as long as I am not the one dispatching, I have no problem with that.

Upgrade time guess - NJA 3-5 years people say. DAL 5-10 years thanks to 65.

Short term job security - NJA.

Long term job security - DAL, Delta's pilots will always be around in some form or fashion. NJA could get liquidated if an Aetna guy takes over Berkshire someday and wonders why they have an airline (assume RS and WB are dead).

Have I missed anything to consider? Who would you go with?

 

[Sparse]

It's a no brainer. You will work less and make more over your lifetime at Delta. It will suck at first but in the long run you will be happy you did it. They screwed me (Delta and ALPA) but getting in now will ceratinly be o your advantage.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Well another 9/11 or something close and the airlines will spiral into crap again. Delta could just as easily disappear in 5 years. NJA IMO will be around for a long time. They have a product that is unmatched. Yeah there are other fractionals, but none could take up the slack if NJA wasn't here.. It's all a crapshoot.. Good luck though..

 

[Cavpilot]

Who is the bigger pain in the arse over the years? Filthy rich or the people in the cattle cars? This is probably one of the more subjective categories to consider, but probably one of the most important.

The people that we fly at NetJets are, generally speaking, great folks. Yes there are people that can be less than pleasant, but the majority of our owners are a pleasure to fly. You will have the opportunity to meet some very interesting people as well.

 

[US Flyer]

I've been at the regionals for over seven years and thought about going to fractionals in the past. I don't know how old you are but let's assume you are in your early thirties....

I personally would go to DAL- you could always STILL go to Netjets in the future if there is another 9/11 type disaster that gets you furloughed at a major. Commuting as a part 121 guy/gal is at least doable and allows you to live almost anywhere. I'm not sure I would try and commute at all (or even how to go about doing it) as a fractional pilot.

Plus, if you get fed up with part 121 flying in your early fifties (assuming the age 60 rule stays the same) then you could still go to NJA and get a good 15 plus years out of it. You would have been able to see both worlds that way if you so desired.

I personally don't think you could easily go to NJA for the next 15 years and then try and switch to an airline. No one would take you seriously in the interview.

Lastly, DAL has probably the BEST travel benefits of any major airline. You and your family can see the world if you want for free if you go at an off-peak time. I guess you could do this to a certain extent with skymiles (generated as a passenger getting to flights for the fractional), but you couldn't do it as often as you could at a major.

 

[Twotter76]

I don't agree that NJA is likely to be sold but I suppose anything is possible. I would argue that long term security is much better with NJA then at DAL - simply because NJA has about 75% market share with no serious competition (for now). DAL cringes every time someone starts a fare war. Ever hear of a fare war in the fractional market? Our owners are not going back to the airlines unless they run out of money but the great thing about that is that even if one does leave there is a waiting list for his spot.

 

[BoeingBaller]

Delta hands down.Or get the coffee & ice and push those turds down the crapper and then change out the lav.Oh and dont forget my bags boy!!!

 

[NJA Capt]

You will work less and make more over your lifetime at Delta.

The average NJA pilot flys 400 hours per year.

Travel benefits? Where can you go? Flights these days are packed. Flight bennies these days are pretty worthless. First class sections are shrinking and coach is always filled, especially somewhere you would want to go on vacation.

 

[Fozzy]

You ever try non-reving with a family?!? No thanks, I would rather buy my tickets. Travel benefits are NOT a benefit anymore in the 121 world, that is unless you are without family. And if you are, how long will that last???
Travel benefits are a joke.

 

[CA1900]

Long term job security - DAL, Delta's pilots will always be around in some form or fashion.

That's what they said about Eastern. And Braniff. And TWA. And Pan Am. The fact that DAL just came out of bankruptcy is a clue that there's a long road ahead to any kind of security.

NJA could get liquidated if an Aetna guy takes over Berkshire someday and wonders why they have an airline (assume RS and WB are dead).

No aviation job is guaranteed to be around in the future. Not NJA, not Delta. If I had to put my money on only one of the two being around in 20 hours, it'd be NetJets.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Are you really going to make your decision based on us jokers at Flightinfo? Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.

I mean really, you can't decide whether you want to throw bags on a Citation and ride around in the back of airliners all the time, always on reserve vs. a major airline career?

 

[pilotpat]

Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.

uke:

 

[CA1900]

Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.

"Hmmm... do I get the Panda Express again, or the 5-way chili from the other place? So many decisions...."

Believe me, people who can't handle making decisions on their own wouldn't survive a week on the line at NJA. We have to be able to operate independently due to the very nature of an on-demand, dynamic operation. When's the last time your passengers said to you, "We've decided to cancel the meeting; take us to Vegas instead!"

Are you really going to make your decision based on us jokers at Flightinfo?

Oh that, we totally agree!

I mean really, you can't decide whether you want to throw bags on a Citation and ride around in the back of airliners all the time, always on reserve...

You really don't understand our operation, do you? I do indeed ride in the back of airliners -- a couple of times a week, max, and schlepping around a commercial airline terminal is the worst part of the job, bar none. ATL is my personal definition of hell on earth.

Today my "throwing bags" consisted of opening the door, putting a set of golf clubs in the back, and flying halfway across the country eating a catered salmon dinner and enjoying the sights. Relaxed at an FBO lounge for a few hours while catching up with a couple of old friends I ran into, then flew a half hour ferry flight to finish my day. And I haven't had a TSA probe in two weeks! Can you say the same?

I'm glad you like your job at Delta. I like my job at NetJets. Your job has no appeal to me, mine has no appeal to you. So we're both in the right place.

 

[x402]

Are you really going to make your decision based on us jokers at Flightinfo? Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.

I mean really, you can't decide whether you want to throw bags on a Citation and ride around in the back of airliners all the time, always on reserve vs. a major airline career?

...

Well you seem to think your opinion has some validity.....oh and it's posted on Flightinfo.
Netjets isn't for everyone, hope things work out for you at Delta.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Work for BOTH!!

Work at DAL till 65 and then come to NetJets when your retirement goes buh bye and you need to pay off 3 X-wives!! :nuts:

 

[johnsonrod]

After thinking long and hard about this one, I would probably go to Delta just because I think it is the best Legacy carrier out there. I probably would go to NJA over any other 121 operation including SWA. However, Delta is another story and it is expanding like crazy this year - I hear 500 pilots will be added in 2007 alone. I've also heard that there were 30+ 757/767 FO domestic slots in Atlanta left open in the last bid - vacancies. 767ER FO (international) slots out of JFK can be bid after 1-2 years or you could even get it right off the bat if international flying is your thing (Moscow in the winter would suck but Nice, France would be fun). I believe most newhires are getting LGA MD88 but there might be some other slots available. A big 787 order will likely be announced at the Paris Air Show in a few weeks.

The types of flying are very different and you have to decide if you want more of a routine vs. more adhoc flying. Netjets is an absolute leader in its market and should be fairly solid going forward. I personally think Netjets flying would be more fun and interesting.

Tough call - both are good choices in the end. Good luck!

 

[Pat Fabin]

Hey guys, not busting on Netjets. I just get tired of reading the endless "should I work here or here" threads. I flew 135 while furloughed and always thought the Netjets guys flew for a quality operation and were great to hang out with. If I wasn't flying here at DAL, I would enjoy flying there I am sure.

But the two operations from a pilots perspective couldn't be more different. When I arrive at my destination after a long duty day, my transportation is waiting for me...I don't have to get into a rental car and find my hotel in a strange city. When my plane is broken, someone else worries about it...I don't have to babysit the airplane. My schedule is tailored as much as my seniority will allow. Since I have a line, I don't even have to give DAL my home number....just one for emergencies. The first class meals are just as delicious as yours are, except I have a bit more room to stretch out while I eat. Delta is extremely well organized...things happen as planned, generally. My family appreciates that. I don't miss flying out of tiny airports on a foggy morning, hoping I don't hit a bunch of deer at V1. I don't miss cleaning the lav and playing flight attendant. I don't miss spending hours in a hotel waiting around for something to do, although I do miss some FBO coffee (signature).

I've flown the rich and famous before and flown some nice looking, fun-to-fly business jets, but I couldn't give a rats a$$ about who I am flying around. To me, its about pay and a balance between work life and family life.

You guys at Netjets do a great job....its just at a major 121 operation, all you need to really worry about is pilot stuff and its a real pleasure.

Again...its such different styles of flying, I can't believe anyone would be at a crossroads.

 

[MississippiMud]

Hey guys, not busting on Netjets. I just get tired of reading the endless "should I work here or here" threads. I flew 135 while furloughed and always thought the Netjets guys flew for a quality operation and were great to hang out with. If I wasn't flying here at DAL, I would enjoy flying there I am sure.

But the two operations from a pilots perspective couldn't be more different. When I arrive at my destination after a long duty day, my transportation is waiting for me...I don't have to get into a rental car and find my hotel in a strange city. When my plane is broken, someone else worries about it...I don't have to babysit the airplane. My schedule is tailored as much as my seniority will allow. Since I have a line, I don't even have to give DAL my home number....just one for emergencies. The first class meals are just as delicious as yours are, except I have a bit more room to stretch out while I eat. Delta is extremely well organized...things happen as planned, generally. My family appreciates that. I don't miss flying out of tiny airports on a foggy morning, hoping I don't hit a bunch of deer at V1. I don't miss cleaning the lav and playing flight attendant. I don't miss spending hours in a hotel waiting around for something to do, although I do miss some FBO coffee (signature).

I've flown the rich and famous before and flown some nice looking, fun-to-fly business jets, but I couldn't give a rats a$$ about who I am flying around. To me, its about pay and a balance between work life and family life.

You guys at Netjets do a great job....its just at a major 121 operation, all you need to really worry about is pilot stuff and its a real pleasure.

Again...its such different styles of flying, I can't believe anyone would be at a crossroads.

I have never waited on transportation and if a plane is broke we go to a hotel if another is not available. It sounds like you have worked here, but it must have been before the new contract. The only place I would go from netjets is FedEx. Some people like trains, some like buses but a growing number likes the Fracs. I had 24 days off as a first year FO for vacation, one sick day per month, dont spend the per diem, plush hotels with free cook to order b'fast, and If you are really tired........no carpet dance with the CP, just go to the hotel for 14 hrs rest. The airlines can kiss my...........vacation days! Each to his/her own, but I am done interviewing at 28 yrs old unless China gets a nuc over this way!

 

[altscap]

Delta may be hiring 500 pilots this year, but it's still a "who's your buddy" world out there. The guy who started this thread, Dr. Pepper, has an offer from Delta with 2,200 hours total flight time and a military background; I won't begin to speculate who he knows on the Delta hiring board. I am a former Delta Employee (10 years ago) with 6,700 hours of total civilian time, the majority of which is Part 121, yet I have no contacts from my old job or with the upper echelon of Delta society. My app. has been in airapps since December and I have three letters of recommendation (non internal). All I'm getting from Delta is crickets. Am I bitter? I admit it, yes. Do I deserve the job? Maybe. Do I deserve an interview at least? Who can say. But I would still take the offer if I had it. I'll leave it up to you to decide who is more qualified.

On the other hand, I e-mailed a resume and cover letter to Netjets on May 21 and had an application in my mail box on the 28th. Everyone is talking about the pay and the types of flying. And I would LOVE to crew a 757 or 787, but, who is going to treat you like a human being and who is going to treat you like a number. Plus, I've been told that it's sometime possible to catch a NetJets flight that's headed in the general direction you might want to go during your days off. I have no idea what to expect from Netjets, but it's better than watching the deathspiral my company has entered due to inept mgmt. and I'm excited about the opportunity. Plus, the Falcon 2000EX has the most amazing avionics package I've ever seen, that's got to be worth one brownie point.

All you can do is decide what is right for your particular situation, and enjoy the unique predicament you've found yourself in.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Altscap,

I'm sorry you haven't heard from Delta yet...I've been trying to get a couple of my civillian friends on here, and they've heard nothing. Its still early in the hiring game...and right now most of the hiring is civillian too. Its a competitive world out there...many people scrambling for limited positions. You can't start thinking "I deserve a job"...that's a dead end street, my friend.

As for who will treat you like a number vs. a person? Give me a break....if a company gives you an employee number, thats what you are...a resource to be managed until you leave the company. Delta, Netjets, SWA, are all big corporations that do not exist to employee you, hold your hand, make sure you are fulfilled and happy..etc. That's for you to find. At any job, its the people that make the difference...I've been at DAL 8 years and I've made a bunch of life-long friends. I know most of the captains I fly with and we have a blast.

As for the guy that thinks he is done interviewing at 28, I certainly hope you are correct. Most people in aviation, however, have found it doesn't always play out that way.

Good luck all, you can have this "who's job is better" thread. Its funny...for the last 5-6 years the airlines have been in the crapper, all I've read on this forum is how the legacy's suck...jetBlue is the future, Independence Air will change everything, the RJDC will prevail, Delta will be gone by 2006, etc. Now that we are hiring, everyone wants an interview...everyone wants to debate contracts, everyone wants to be hired immediately. Amazing.