New Comercial Pilot

[gsrcrsx68]

Go to the regional, get the time, 5 years from now you can do whatever you want...or go the hard way, moving up one small plane at a time until you earn respect from clowns on here (which, of course will never happen).

Not even a question really...let the sorry whiners complain all they want, go to the regional.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Life experience, lol.

I liked that one too... Funny stuff.

I'm gonna throw the flame bait flag. Well played sir!

 

[dav8or]

Yeah !!! I finally made it. Got my commercial sticker saturday. Now I am an unemployed commercial pilot.
Anyone who can help me land that first Regional I would sure appreciate it.
I am not a pilot mill graduate. I did it the hard way. I am 43 with lots of management experience, great personality, and now finally Commercial MEL Instrument. 300 Hrs Total with 58 Multi PIC , 1st class med.
I live in NC and would like to stay somewhat close if possible.

Thanks in advance

Try Ram Air they have location all over NC

 

[mushroom]

First off, congratulations. Feels good, doesn't it?

Keep working on your CFI, but look for the regional jobs too.

Anyone on here, ANYONE, who says that they would "get some experience instructing" or similar before trying to get hired by a regional,if they were in your shoes, is lying. Simple as that. They know they would be trying to get into the jet too.

As far as "life experience" is concerned: I'm just a little younger than you, and I do know what the value of life experience is. People who are younger don't and are the ones who make fun of the ones who talk about it. Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote that said something like (paraphrasing): "When I was 14 I couldn't believe how dumb my father was. By the time I was 30 I was amazed to see how much the old man had smartened up..." Don't you wish you were 20 years younger, but knew everything that you know now?

The reality of today's world is that it is possible to get a job in a jet with really low time. Back when I was young (cue nostalgic music) I had instructed for three years, and even then it was nearly impossible to get a job just flying a Navajo around in the middle of the night. The MINIMUM time I remember ANY "commuter" airline wanting was 1200 total and 300 ME. If you didn't have at least 2000-2500 total and about 500 ME they wouldn't even look at you.

Just be humble, don't act like you know everything, and when you do get hired, listen to your captain's advice. Even though he/she will usually be younger than you.

Hell, I'm not even 40 years old and I'm a 747 captain. If they'll let a moron like me do it, they'll let anyone...

Good luck. And don't let your CFI expire once you get it. It will come in handy once you are furloughed. Speaking from experience here...

 

[Leroy Smith]

I'm a big fan of good CFI's. There are fewer and fewer who can tell sh!t from shinola. Puppy-mill students are being taught by puppy-mill graduates. Every cycle, a little more knowledge is lost.

If you want to be an airline pilot, going to a regional is almost a no brainer. You dont need to be all that good or experienced a pilot, just the lowest common denominator. As long as you can get through training, pass a PC every year and not get violated out on the line, you are set. Your schedule, your chance at upgrade and your payscale are all strictly a function of seniority (assuming you meet the mins, which seem to be coming down). The automation, the SOPs, the dispatchers, etc and most importantly the guy in the left seat(hopefully!) make the whole system almost bulletproof.

Here are my suggestions, and you are free to ignore them for the above reasons. Before going to a regional and forgetting a lot of what little you know about flying now:


1) Fly a small airplane across a whole time zone, or between places where its summer and winter.

2) Exceed some demonstrated crosswind components, getting close to double is pretty solid. The airplane has to stay on the runway and in one piece.

3) Be upside-down in an airplane, at least once. (in the air, not as a result of #2) Go straight to the bonus round if its a wake-turbulence encounter, SD in IMC or a too in depth examination of Vmc.

4) Fly in and out of a grass/ dirt strip, the smaller, more crooked and lumpier, the better.

5) Fly tailwheels! (combine with #4 for extra fun!)

6) See the lights at minimums. Extra points if its a circling approach. Cleared for the approach and radar lost 15 miles from the IAF and at the bottom crossing over the top of the airport for a 240 degree circle at 500/1 is something you wont even come close to in an RJ.

7) Dont see the lights at minimums, divert. Best if far from home, or coming home late and really wanting to get home! (really excellent if you can see the flashes from the REILs, but not the lights themselves)

8) Have some really "OH SH!T" moments, but not the kind that involve F-16s or UH60s flying formation with you. Encountering unforcasted freezing rain with no ability to climb was my favorite. The defroster cleared some of the wind screen by the time we landed, but seeing 3/4" of clear ice sloughing off a Skyhawk's wing as you tie down really gives you some appreciation for what could've been.


None of these are things that you want to go right out and do (and some you would never plan to do intentionally if you are sane). I was very lucky, very patient and absolutely obsessed with aviation when I was getting my ratings and teaching. I was very conservative in how I approached my limitations as a pilot (especially where weather was involved), but I did some stuff that was absolutely amazing. None of this stuff will do much for your career (other than some TMATT stories at an interview): aviation is not a meritocracy. I have enjoyed flying for a regional (the usual BS aside), but I do feel like some of the joy of flying has been removed. Im looking at ways to be able to teach again. That's all Ive got to say about that.

 

[daviator28621]

Thanks Leroy and Mushroom.
I appreciate the real, honest, and helpful information. It's hard to wade through the whining on this site sometimes. But you made it worth it. I agree that being humble and willing to listen will ensure that you will get a better education from the captain who is willing to fly with the low time guy.
I am working on getting the types of experience you mentioned. I finally got to fly in real IMC a week ago. Wow what an eye opener, after about 50-60 hours of simulated you think it is no big deal, until you experience it.
It scared me but I was with a good instructor and felt confident in his abilities, I calmed down, stopped chasing the plane, and flew like I had been taught. So yes experience is priceless.
I want to base in charlotte or greensboro NC so if you got some pointers to get me there I would appreciate it.

 

[great cornholio]

I want to base in charlotte or greensboro NC so if you got some pointers to get me there I would appreciate it.

I'd say PSA is your best bet they have a pretty big CLT base so I bet it would be easy to get CLT. Plus I think they only have like 3 bases...CLT, TYS, and DAY I think.

CHQ has a GSO base but that would be much harder to get than CLT would be at PSA mostly because Chq has like 100 bases...ok well maybe not that many but quite a few so the chances of getting the base you want out of like 25 is much less than getting what you want out of 3 choices.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Fly for Mesa.

 

[turbodriver]

daviator28621,

dude, screw these naysayers. They're just jealous that they had to get their CFI, slug it out with students trying to kill them before they went the regional route. They're pi$$ed that the regionals wern't hiring guys off the street with a wet ticket in the late 90's early 2000's. You have the chance to skip all that crap. I would've done it in a heartbeat if it was like this 6 years ago and I was in your shoes.

Go for it.

 

[NoJoy]

I say get your CFI, CFII, and MEI. If ALL ATPs is near your area get your ratings through them. I got my MEI there (at the time PAE) and taught for awhile at a very good FBO. If you can get on with ALL ATP's as an instructor you will be teaching in a twin-Seminole-and doing alot of instrument training, especially with folks out of the military working on their ATPs. Instructing will make you a better pilot, prepare you for the regionals and eventually make you a more compentant CA. One thing that may have not been mentioned is the fact that your odds of making it through training at any regional are greatly improved if you are a CFI,CFII with some time under your belt. Like around 1000 hrs+ You do not want to fail out of sim training do to lack of experience. This does happen, but you do not hear about that often. So do yourself a favor and finish the rest of your ratings, teach for a year; you will thank yourself later.
Oh and flying into ASE with only 300 hrs tt may be more fun than you want.

 

[BushwickBill]

I'm a big fan of good CFI's. There are fewer and fewer who can tell sh!t from shinola. Puppy-mill students are being taught by puppy-mill graduates. Every cycle, a little more knowledge is lost.

If you want to be an airline pilot, going to a regional is almost a no brainer. You dont need to be all that good or experienced a pilot, just the lowest common denominator. As long as you can get through training, pass a PC every year and not get violated out on the line, you are set. Your schedule, your chance at upgrade and your payscale are all strictly a function of seniority (assuming you meet the mins, which seem to be coming down). The automation, the SOPs, the dispatchers, etc and most importantly the guy in the left seat(hopefully!) make the whole system almost bulletproof.

Here are my suggestions, and you are free to ignore them for the above reasons. Before going to a regional and forgetting a lot of what little you know about flying now:


1) Fly a small airplane across a whole time zone, or between places where its summer and winter.

2) Exceed some demonstrated crosswind components, getting close to double is pretty solid. The airplane has to stay on the runway and in one piece.

3) Be upside-down in an airplane, at least once. (in the air, not as a result of #2) Go straight to the bonus round if its a wake-turbulence encounter, SD in IMC or a too in depth examination of Vmc.

4) Fly in and out of a grass/ dirt strip, the smaller, more crooked and lumpier, the better.

5) Fly tailwheels! (combine with #4 for extra fun!)

6) See the lights at minimums. Extra points if its a circling approach. Cleared for the approach and radar lost 15 miles from the IAF and at the bottom crossing over the top of the airport for a 240 degree circle at 500/1 is something you wont even come close to in an RJ.

7) Dont see the lights at minimums, divert. Best if far from home, or coming home late and really wanting to get home! (really excellent if you can see the flashes from the REILs, but not the lights themselves)

8) Have some really "OH SH!T" moments, but not the kind that involve F-16s or UH60s flying formation with you. Encountering unforcasted freezing rain with no ability to climb was my favorite. The defroster cleared some of the wind screen by the time we landed, but seeing 3/4" of clear ice sloughing off a Skyhawk's wing as you tie down really gives you some appreciation for what could've been.


None of these are things that you want to go right out and do (and some you would never plan to do intentionally if you are sane). I was very lucky, very patient and absolutely obsessed with aviation when I was getting my ratings and teaching. I was very conservative in how I approached my limitations as a pilot (especially where weather was involved), but I did some stuff that was absolutely amazing. None of this stuff will do much for your career (other than some TMATT stories at an interview): aviation is not a meritocracy. I have enjoyed flying for a regional (the usual BS aside), but I do feel like some of the joy of flying has been removed. Im looking at ways to be able to teach again. That's all Ive got to say about that.

#3? Come on man. Inverted in IMC...? Other than that a decent post but really.

The only time I've heard of this even getting close to happening was at said puppymill. Seminole entered T-storm: student quit flying instructor took a long vacation.

Oh but there will always be the hair on fire at mach 2 the only way to evade the mig was inverted in the soup... I can hear the Kenny Logins!

As for the Vmc stuff. I'm sure the souls of the 20 somethings that wish they had picked a safer form of employment and didn't go down with a seminole would have words with you.

 

[mushroom]

Regarding the flying in actual: I would also add that you should seek out and fly in as much actual as you can (safely, of course...don't go looking for ice or thunderstorms, or low IFR until you have some experience and gain confidence). Flying in the soup with no autopilot, knowing that you can't just take your hood off and be VMC, will definitely make you a more proficient and confident pilot. The first time you do it solo (if you haven't yet) will definitely get your attention!

That is one benefit for your later career: if you become a CFII and instruct as often as you can in actual conditions. I think some CFII's are reluctant to do this, but it benefits both you and your student since they will get an idea of what really flying in the clouds is about. It will increase their confidence too. It isn't the easiest thing...after all, you have to teach your student, critique their performance, make sure the plane is under control, and listen to and comply with ATC. All while your students occasionally try to kill you. But that's GREAT experience for when you are a captain some day, since you will likely be doing the exact same thing with your F/O (hopefully not the "killing you" part).

 

[Leroy Smith]

#3? Come on man. Inverted in IMC...?

Yeah, #3 was over the top.

I was really thinking more about getting out in an Aerobat for some loops and rolls, maybe a Cuban8 or two. Or if your'e really lucky, some ACM in a Marchetti or Yak. Then my imagination got away from me. I've had some scary SD, caught lots of students getting it and had a good wake turbulence encounter (but never got inverted in any of those cases). But you are absolutely right, those are all things you would be lucky to live through. And to anyone who's lost freinds or family in loss of control accidents, I apologize if I sounded flippant. I certainly did not mean to be.

Going back to the original point. If you want an airline career, jump as soon as you can. Cant work for the regional you want yet? Get on somewhere that is desperate for warm bodies. Get through training, get the time you need under your belt and apply at the one you do want. Or you may decide that the industry isnt what you really thought it would be after the experience.

NoJoy is also correct, for just getting it done, All-ATPs is the way to go. I dont care for their methods and have not been impressed with people I have met who did the 90 day course, BUT it is the way to go to get it done fast and cheap and move on. One All-ATP guy I turned down for a CFI job is now in upgrade class at one of the better regionals. They have a system, they check off the boxes and you get your tickets. If you go, be ready for the unexpected. I knew another guy that on the day of one of his checkrides, they airlined him to another location to do it. He wasnt happy about it, it rattled him a little, but it all worked out in the end.

I would encourage you to find a local flight school that you think would do the best job of getting you through and giving them your business. But I think that it is pointless, the independant flight-schools are on their way to extinction. The only ones that will survive will have a zero-to-hero program that can compete with ATPs, DCA, etc on price and speed. And that is almost impossibe.

Mr Shroom is very correct. If you have not done much IMC flying (and assuming you want to before the FMS and autopilot will be doing the work), try to get a competent CFII to go out with you and find some low IFR conditions. And try to get yourself solo into some "easy" IMC where you always have a VMC "out" below. Work your way into it slowly, that way the "oh sh!t" moments will just be learning experiences.
A man has got to know his limitations.

 

[BLing]

However I am 43 with life experience and the ability to make decisions, this is a little better than a 21 year old with the same flight experience.

I am going to disagree and choose the 21 year old over you! Heres why... When I was doing the CFI thing I had A LOT of students. By far hands down the 40 year old on up guys that apparently knew everything where the worst ones. The problem was those guys couldnt learn and apply new info as quickly as as a young guy. At times it was very frustrating.

I had a chief pilot from one of my flight schools I trained at who had 3000 hrs and was a good GA pilot go to a regional. He lasted a year because he was asked to leave. Young Captains in there late 20's to early 30's where tired of baby sitting him. Another case of the middle aged man that couldnt learn as quickly as a young guy.

 

[AAbyDefault]

Trans States is hiring people with about 250 total and 15-20 multi.....

Man, I remember early early 90's when you couldn't even get on with Trans States unless you had 2500-3000 TT and 500-1000 Multi, how times have changed.

Looks like the working conditions havn't changed a bit either!

 

[bobs98tlr]

If you have an extra $7k to spend getting the CFI CFII MEI then it would be worth it to you. Otherwsie keep reading the boards and you will find something that will help ya out. There are a lot of guys on here that will give you some good info on the companys you are interested in. Lots of places will pick you up once you hit 500tt and 100multi. However a few companys will hire guys with the time you have. Try IFL Group in Pontiac, MI. They hire guys into the convair and falcon 20's with your time. A few other cargo companys in El Paso, Tx will hire that low of time as well.

 

[Tug Driver]

I am going to disagree and choose the 21 year old over you! Heres why... When I was doing the CFI thing I had A LOT of students. By far hands down the 40 year old on up guys that apparently knew everything where the worst ones. The problem was those guys couldnt learn and apply new info as quickly as as a young guy. At times it was very frustrating.

I had a chief pilot from one of my flight schools I trained at who had 3000 hrs and was a good GA pilot go to a regional. He lasted a year because he was asked to leave. Young Captains in there late 20's to early 30's where tired of baby sitting him. Another case of the middle aged man that couldnt learn as quickly as a young guy.

AGREED!

Life experience = "stuck in their ways"