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DELTA vs SWA from another thread....

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momalley81 said:
How do you know he will get tired of SWA? Do you know who I am talking about?
Click to expand...

Well, if he is the guy I know, he recently said to me "they work us like dogs." But not everyone probably feels that way. I bet some really love the 737, for the rest of their career. Great. Good for them.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Whataburger said:
I have flown a couple a 7leg day, a couple 6leg days, some 5 leg days, tons of 4 leg days, some 3leg days, and some 2leg days. I can honestly say that I have NEVER ended a day or a trip exhausted. This job is not rocket surgery. Checklist, push, fly, land, checklist, and repeat. I have flown with 20-25 year guys that are 55-59 and have NEVER heard one say he/she has been exhausted. At the end of the 4-5leg days I find myself saying, "Where'd the day go?" It goes very quickly. It's not for everyone, but it's for me because I dont mind work, I enjoy actuallyflying, and I enjoy working with people who want to be at work and enjoy it also.
I found international flying terribly boring. It's as braindead as any flying except for your ears have to be better to understand the way the rest of the world speaks English. -position report, sit for 1hr, postion report, sit for an hour, repeat. Go out after napping 'til noon, walk around in a daze around London, eat some overpriced fish and chips, sleep, come home.
And finally, if ya dont wanna work for your money, dont come here.
Click to expand...

Two questions: How old are you and how long have you been doing this for SWA?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
momalley81 said:
Those beginning with SWA now will not be flying the B-737 at the end of their career.

Within this year SWA will announce an order for B-787's. You heard it here first.
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Six legs a day. Oh, and we will be getting Space Shuttles at DL.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General,

I choose to work hard. When I'm at work I want to hump it so that I get my ass home to my family and to be a husband and dad. That means I often fly trips with 3, 4 or even sometimes 5 or 6 legs a day. My overnights are NEVER shorter than 12 hours. A very average overnight is 14 or 15 hours. The 4 day trip I flew last week flew 27 hours and paid me $3510. Plus per diem. I do that 4 times this month and I'm DONE.

Why would I want to work fewer hours a day which translates to more workdays per month?

You are so full of yourself it's amusing. Rant on all you want about "rumors" and "big ideas" at Delta. I believe things when I see it parked on the ramp or see the deposit in the bank.

It's obvious that your International Airline Pilot identification is very important to you. Good for ya. I want to be known as a good guy that loves his family and oh by the way flies airplanes for a living. Enjoy Athens. While your on your crew rest schmoozing some dude in first class that could give a crap about your International Airline Pilot identification this weekend I'll be fishin' with my kids.

Gup
 
General Lee said:
So says a guy who can't debate.


Bye Bye--General Lee
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You're worthless as a debater. You have NO knowledge whatsoever of the subject matter, and argue like a 7 year old.
 
momalley81 said:
You can't afford a Space Shuttle when most of your cash flow is going to service your debt that you still have that wasn't axed in BK.
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Read the article I posted please, the one that stated we got rid of $13 billion in debt, down to respectable level that is easily serviced. We also cut some leases from $280,000 a month to $80,000 a month. We did very well. There are plenty of rumors abound that have good things coming up, but I can't post them until I see them in writing. That will be soon supposedly.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
canyonblue said:
You're worthless as a debater. You have NO knowledge whatsoever of the subject matter, and argue like a 7 year old.
Click to expand...
'

Thanks dad. You still have never responded to these facts:

At Southwest:

1. You will fly a 737 the rest of your career (or until you get 787s...no orders yet)

2. You will fly multiple leg days

3. You will fly only domestic (no INTL cities yet, and Kelly said ATA would do INTL to Europe)

4. You will do 25 min turns

5. There is a chance you will see LBB, AMA, and MAF


There you have it. Refute those, Dad.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
At Southwest:

1. You will fly a 737 the rest of your career (or until you get 787s...no orders yet) So, what's your point? Some people have size issues. Your CEO says PROBABLY will order 787's. He also says you will PROBABLY get a raise soon.:rolleyes: To much Kool-Aid for you.

2. You will fly multiple leg days. Due to flying domestically. Da.... Atleast we get to fly the dang airplane rather then sit and monitor the auto pilot for 8 hours then decide by the flip of a coin who gets to make 1 landing a week.

3. You will fly only domestic (no INTL cities yet, and Kelly said ATA would do INTL to Europe) And still fly more people then you combined, and still only fly domestic.

4. You will do 25 min turns. Compared to a 3 hour sit in CVG or worse, ATL, I'll take it. Less time on the ground means more time at the bar.

5. There is a chance you will see LBB, AMA, and MAF. So what? You bash us cause of where we overnight? Dosen't Delta overnight domestically as well? Sure they do, or did all your regionals steal that flying from you? Love the double brested jackets by the way. Your FA's look really fun to hang out with.:puke: Haven't seen one under 40 yet. Sinner.
 
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>>1. You will fly a 737 the rest of your career (or until you get 787s...no orders yet)<<

Probably not, but I wish it would be true. I've got 23 different aircraft types logged. The smaller ones were the most fun. After you've put in a decade or two you realize that an airplane is an airplane and enough familiarity to only need a half hour review before a PC is nice.

>>2. You will fly multiple leg days<<

We can fly long haul or short. I have found as someone who still enjoys flying that the arrivals and departures are the most interesting and make the day go by fast. The only time I find myself droning along looking at the clock is on a long boring cruise.

>>3. You will fly only domestic (no INTL cities yet, and Kelly said ATA would do INTL to Europe)<<

I've flown Europe and S. America. Got old fast. Got caught in 9/11 and gave thanks for being on the right side of the border. I also ended up in a hospital one time and was equally glad of being where I was.

>>4. You will do 25 min turns<<

As opposed to sitting on your butt for chump change perdiem? Sitting is far more fatiguing than flying and flying pays much better. When you were growing up did you tell your third grade teacher you wanted to sit in airports for a living? Our quick turns are one of our best quality of life features.

>>5. There is a chance you will see LBB, AMA, and MAF<<

I have never had a flow restriction, ground stop, holding pattern, or even held out for a gate at any one of those places. Never been more than number two for arrival or departure either. Usually on a PM arrival the controller will clear you for the visual from 40 miles and clear you to land and to the gate at the same time. Talk about stress and hassle free flying. Nice clean hotels, friendly people, and great food at huge discounts. What exactly is the problem again?
 
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I think the SWA guys/gals have a nice gig for what it is. I at one time did up to 8 leg days in turboprops and 6 leg days in small jets. It was good practice and my flying skills were never sharper but I'll tell you what, it was tiring. Most of the work load (manifests, walk around, checklists, busy radio ops) increases each time you revisit the ground along with cycles of takeoff and landing. Reducing sit time and getting your work done then going home is a good way to go vs fly then sit 3 hours as many of the contract RJ guys do these days and to a lessor degree, Delta domestic. SWA reducing the sit time really does help.

Most Delta domestic has very few legs though after farming the small thin routes to RJ's. International is where the growth is at Delta now. The thing about interational flying at Delta or any other international carrier for that matter is that you have effectively removed all the sit times. You're getting paid while you fly, sleep, eat, watch a movie, etc. So to be fair if comparing SWA vs Delta sit times you can only compare domestic ops. If you are flying international there is no comparison and there is no better efficiency hour for hour than international. As long as the trips are no longer than 3, 4 or 5 days the quickest and most effective way to "bank" your time then spend time home with your family is by flying international. I have watched senior international pilots bid days off inversly two months in row and effectively have a month vacation every other month, with nice cities to boot. You dont have to do it this way but as a few people have said here, sometimes its all about options.

On a side note, I know this is not recommended protocol but I know an international guy who takes all his bills, paperwork and a book that can be done during the longer legs of international so he hits the ground running with his family when he rolls into the driveway for some time off activities.
 
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General Lee said:
'

Thanks dad. You still have never responded to these facts:

At Southwest:

1. You will fly a 737 the rest of your career (or until you get 787s...no orders yet)

2. You will fly multiple leg days

3. You will fly only domestic (no INTL cities yet, and Kelly said ATA would do INTL to Europe)

4. You will do 25 min turns

5. There is a chance you will see LBB, AMA, and MAF


There you have it. Refute those, Dad.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...



1. Maybe...........change is constant.

2. Big deal. Are you afraid of a little work? Whaaaaaa

3. Most used phrase in Intl flying...... "WTF did he say". You know I'm right.

4. Good.....quicker to get to the hotel, have a beer & catch Sportscenter or whatever. Unless you dig sitting around ATL for your 3 hr sit. Sounds like a hoot.

5. *yawn*
 
Quimby said:
1. Maybe...........change is constant.

2. Big deal. Are you afraid of a little work? Whaaaaaa

3. Most used phrase in Intl flying...... "WTF did he say". You know I'm right.

4. Good.....quicker to get to the hotel, have a beer & catch Sportscenter or whatever. Unless you dig sitting around ATL for your 3 hr sit. Sounds like a hoot.

5. *yawn*
Click to expand...

Great responses. You have proven my point. Southwest flying can be described I guess as *yawn*. Thanks.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Quimby said:
So says the guy who sounds like a broken record.
Click to expand...


If the truth hurts...(just admit that I am right and I will move on, probably)

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
To be fair there were alot of Delta Pilots preparing to jump ship. Depending on what story you listen to, Delta was within two weeks of shutting down. Some elected to jump to safer ground at the time and there is nothing wrong with that. They made a choice based upon the information and circumstances at the time. Those that ended up at SWA, UPS, FedEx are in a decent spot. I know a 777 guy that punched out at Delta to get retirement while the getting was good. He's 57 right now and would be number one on the seniority list had he stayed. He said it was the most difficult decision he has ever had to make to decide to leave early. He misses the flying alot and will tell you stories about trips to South America and Europe that sound pretty nice. He recently migrated back to Delta to work in the training dept to keep his hand in aviation. He says the feel post BK at Delta now is radically different than when he punched out less than two years ago.

momalley81 said:
I know two people who left Delta and have now been flying with SWA for about a year.

One was a 9 year JFK Based International B-767 FO.

Another was a 25 Year International B-767 Captain. He retired early to protect his A fund and came to SWA at the age of 56 to pull the gear.

Flying heavies international can only go so far. The way you are treated by your company, your pay, and your QOL are much more important.

Some think it is better at Delta, some think it is better at SWA. However, I do find it ironic that 2 tenured Delta Pilots left to come to SWA because they stated that Delta "was a lost cause." Who knows if they will be right in the end.
Click to expand...
 
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Widow's Son said:
>>1. You will fly a 737 the rest of your career (or until you get 787s...no orders yet)<<

Probably not, but I wish it would be true. I've got 23 different aircraft types logged. The smaller ones were the most fun. After you've put in a decade or two you realize that an airplane is an airplane and enough familiarity to only need a half hour review before a PC is nice.

>>2. You will fly multiple leg days<<

We can fly long haul or short. I have found as someone who still enjoys flying that the arrivals and departures are the most interesting and make the day go by fast. The only time I find myself droning along looking at the clock is on a long boring cruise.

>>3. You will fly only domestic (no INTL cities yet, and Kelly said ATA would do INTL to Europe)<<

I've flown Europe and S. America. Got old fast. Got caught in 9/11 and gave thanks for being on the right side of the border. I also ended up in a hospital one time and was equally glad of being where I was.

>>4. You will do 25 min turns<<

As opposed to sitting on your butt for chump change perdiem? Sitting is far more fatiguing than flying and flying pays much better. When you were growing up did you tell your third grade teacher you wanted to sit in airports for a living? Our quick turns are one of our best quality of life features.

>>5. There is a chance you will see LBB, AMA, and MAF<<

I have never had a flow restriction, ground stop, holding pattern, or even held out for a gate at any one of those places. Never been more than number two for arrival or departure either. Usually on a PM arrival the controller will clear you for the visual from 40 miles and clear you to land and to the gate at the same time. Talk about stress and hassle free flying. Nice clean hotels, friendly people, and great food at huge discounts. What exactly is the problem again?
Click to expand...

Wow, impressive. 23 type ratings. And, you think an airplane is an airplane? Okay, see if you think that way after a few more years on the 737. You will be yearning for something different. And will you get 787s? I doubt it, but maybe---if you guys are allowed to change the cockpit forever and ruin it for every other airline---like the 737NGs....thanks for that. (you guys love switches, not push buttons)

You fly long haul and short. Well, your long haul flights USUALLY have an extra tag on to it, like PHL--LAX---and then onto LAS. SWA wants you to fly to the max everyday. That could be great, except that you are tired unless you are Superman. You might be able to do that as a youngster, but not after 50 years old. You are probably done mentally after the 6 hour leg from PHL--LAX. Don't say you aren't.....

Got old fast going to Europe and South America, eh? I would expect you to say that, since you now fly for Southwest. If you said "I really miss the great layovers in Europe" then you couldn't debate me. Our INTL hotels are the best in our system, and the destinations are sweet. Maybe you went to some real poop holes, but most of ours are NICE (like Nice, France). Can you say anything bad about Nice? I bet you could, but then again you frequent ELP often probably. If you get sick in an INTL city there are protocols to help our crews. The station managers are briefed on all of that. Security is also very good. If you get mugged in Barcelona, you probably got mugged in Vegas or New York too.

We don't sit around too much anymore, especially at ATL, where we used to sit for 3 hours at a time. We got better softwear or something that now limits us to about an hour between flights, and ATL just opened an extra runway (10/28) that has helped reduce holding etc, and we have PRM approaches too that keeps things moving. (all of this at ATL, the busiest hub in the world with the most passengers by far, and Delta has 70% of the traffic there) INTL flights have no wait times at all. You sign in, meet with the other crew members and talk about the tracks you will be flying and look at the charts, and then get your Starbucks and go to the plane. A first class meal is waiting for you.

LBB, AMA, and MAF sound really boring. It is great that you enjoy it, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Great responses. You have proven my point. Southwest flying can be described I guess as *yawn*. Thanks.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...


Thanks, I knew you'd appreciate my insight.

Please tell me how much more exciting flying a 76 is over a 73?

If you want excitement, go rent a Pitts.

Ciao.
 
General Lee said:
Wow, impressive. 23 type ratings. And, you think an airplane is an airplane? Okay, see if you think that way after a few more years on the 737. You will be yearning for something different. And will you get 787s? I doubt it, but maybe---if you guys are allowed to change the cockpit forever and ruin it for every other airline---like the 737NGs....thanks for that. (you guys love switches, not push buttons)

You fly long haul and short. Well, your long haul flights USUALLY have an extra tag on to it, like PHL--LAX---and then onto LAS. SWA wants you to fly to the max everyday. That could be great, except that you are tired unless you are Superman. You might be able to do that as a youngster, but not after 50 years old. You are probably done mentally after the 6 hour leg from PHL--LAX. Don't say you aren't.....

Got old fast going to Europe and South America, eh? I would expect you to say that, since you now fly for Southwest. If you said "I really miss the great layovers in Europe" then you couldn't debate me. Our INTL hotels are the best in our system, and the destinations are sweet. Maybe you went to some real poop holes, but most of ours are NICE (like Nice, France). Can you say anything bad about Nice? I bet you could, but then again you frequent ELP often probably. If you get sick in an INTL city there are protocols to help our crews. The station managers are briefed on all of that. Security is also very good. If you get mugged in Barcelona, you probably got mugged in Vegas or New York too.

We don't sit around too much anymore, especially at ATL, where we used to sit for 3 hours at a time. We got better softwear or something that now limits us to about an hour between flights, and ATL just opened an extra runway (10/28) that has helped reduce holding etc, and we have PRM approaches too that keeps things moving. (all of this at ATL, the busiest hub in the world with the most passengers by far, and Delta has 70% of the traffic there) INTL flights have no wait times at all. You sign in, meet with the other crew members and talk about the tracks you will be flying and look at the charts, and then get your Starbucks and go to the plane. A first class meal is waiting for you.

LBB, AMA, and MAF sound really boring. It is great that you enjoy it, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...


and the hits keep coming. *yawn*
 
Howard Hughes said:
Most Delta domestic has very few legs though after farming the small thin routes to RJ's.
Click to expand...

Unless things have dramatically changed at Mother Delta for bottom feeder pilots (read: junior guys), I don't know how you can make that statement. When I was an ATL M88B back in 2005, 4-5 legs a day was pretty normal for us. We were in and out of ATL all day and night. While we may have had 45-55 min turns, they were eaten up by pulling into A-1, and going out on D-35 in ATL. Those BHM and JAN layovers were really great too.

BTW, what is the Kracker Kremlin telling new-hires for length of time to upgrade to the left seat? This hasn't been talked about very much by you, or the General.
 
Archie Bunker said:
Unless things have dramatically changed at Mother Delta for bottom feeder pilots (read: junior guys), I don't know how you can make that statement. When I was an ATL M88B back in 2005, 4-5 legs a day was pretty normal for us. We were in and out of ATL all day and night. While we may have had 45-55 min turns, they were eaten up by pulling into A-1, and going out on D-35 in ATL. Those BHM and JAN layovers were really great too.

BTW, what is the Kracker Kremlin telling new-hires for length of time to upgrade to the left seat? This hasn't been talked about very much by you, or the General.
Click to expand...

what's this? a side of the story GL never mentions?

sinner.
 
It's apples and oranges... Southwest flying begins and ends with the culture there... I think it's mind boggling to many that SWA pilots can separate so easily hard work from stress. It's stess that is tiring-= not necessarily hard work- a lot of legs where the operation runs smoothly is not that difficult. I just think a majority of stations for most airlines don't run smooth and efficient turns which can lead to stress and being tired. SWA pairings are real efficient which leads to more days off-- that's a good deal.

General-- you know there are real senior pilots at every major who bid domestic in order to do locals and be home more. Are they wrong too? It's a matter of taste- that's it.

Widow's son- you can accept a visual 40 miles out?? j.k well said post.
 
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Archie Bunker said:
Unless things have dramatically changed at Mother Delta for bottom feeder pilots (read: junior guys), I don't know how you can make that statement. When I was an ATL M88B back in 2005, 4-5 legs a day was pretty normal for us. We were in and out of ATL all day and night. While we may have had 45-55 min turns, they were eaten up by pulling into A-1, and going out on D-35 in ATL. Those BHM and JAN layovers were really great too.

BTW, what is the Kracker Kremlin telling new-hires for length of time to upgrade to the left seat? This hasn't been talked about very much by you, or the General.
Click to expand...

For the most part, most of the MD88 trips now do old Song routes thanks to the Song 757s now having to cover old domestic 767 routes. That is why there are more CR9s and E170s in ATL, they are covering the old MD88 5 or 6 leg day routes. A lot of the MD88 trips are two leg days up and down the East Coast, with nice layovers in between. There really aren't as many BHM or JAN layovers, most now are Manhattan/BDL/BOS or FLL/TPA/MCO/PBI. MD88s also now go to CUN 3 times daily with a layover, nonstops to GCM, MBJ, KIN, GDL, and there is a St Croix turn twice a week worth 7:45 from ATL. There is even an ATL--San Juan flight on the weekends on the MD88 for spillover Cruise traffic. A lot has changed for that plane.

Time to upgrade will be shortened considerably soon. That is all I can say, primarily because it is all rumors right now.....:) You will hear about it soon I would guess.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

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