Airlines to Fractionals questions

[LyodChristmas]

Hi guy and girls, I am currently a regional airline pilot with a few questions for anyone who used to work for the airlines and made the jump to a fractional.
I still have a few years before I'd be ready to make a jump anywhere as I'd like to get my time and experience as well as some PIC time under my belt and on my resume before I make a decision. But I thought it would be helpful to get some imput from anyone who has made the switch because it's a career path I'm considering. As we all know the aviation picture could change a ton in the next few years. But, as of right now I don't believe I have any intrest in working at any of the "legacy" carriers. I just don't believe they are headed down a path that is going to be good for them in the long run. Honestly I would not be surprised if some are not around in 5-10 years, I really don't think that the CEO's running these companies learned a thing in the past few years, they shaved some operating cost, but it seems they are headed down the wrong roads again for the future. So I'm trying to think outside the box.

So what do you all think that have made the switch. Do you like it better or worse then the airlines you left?. Pros / Cons? Does your family like your 7 on 7 off better then the schedule you had at the airlines? Just overall anything you'd like to tell me about would be a great help with my research.

Thank you!

 

[sweptwingz]

I'm a former Regional puke. I've literally flown with dozens of former Regional pilots in my 10 years of NJA employment. Without hesitation, every single one of them was very, very, happy they had left the Regional swamp.

As far as the 7/7 schedule, I like it. The 7 day out tour is long, but the 7 days off at home balances that out.

 

[V1 Rotate]

No comparison. I just left my regional job after nearly 5 years and after only being at my fractional for a couple of months, I only wish I'd made the move sooner...and I don't even have to do the 7/7 schedule either. There's so much less pressure and nonsense that no longer exists. Such as: Ramp issues, schedules, in my case there's no union, I get fed VERY well while on the road, tons of hotel and airline points, no security/TSA to deal with, the money is decent, and the list goes on. Overall, generally a much happier work force and more pleasant people to fly with. Good Luck.

 

[dudemize]

Have any of you flown with guys who have quit with a Major to come to a fractional? Furloughed or retired doesn't count. I know our FI pal Archie Bunker quit Delta to come to NJA just curious how prevalant it is.

 

[Joecool3]

Archie Bunker is now with UPS.....i think?

 

[dudemize]

Archie Bunker is now with UPS.....i think?

Correct. He was very happy at NJA during his stay.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Have any of you flown with guys who have quit with a Major to come to a fractional? Furloughed or retired doesn't count. I know our FI pal Archie Bunker quit Delta to come to NJA just curious how prevalant it is.

50 year old, 19 year Airbus Captain from one of the big 5 quit last year to come to our fractional. He's ecstatic here.

52 year old, 23 year Whale Captain from the same airline with our operation as well. He's got a permanent smile on his face.

49 year old, 16 year F/O furloughed from the disaster in PIT/PHX that won't be going back. Ever.

Just a few of the many airline refugees loving life in a fractional bizjet.

And LyodChristmas: Don't wait. If you meet the mins and can get hired, do it ASAP.

 

[Guitar Guy]

So what do you all think that have made the switch. Do you like it better or worse then the airlines you left?. Pros / Cons? Does your family like your 7 on 7 off better then the schedule you had at the airlines? Just overall anything you'd like to tell me about would be a great help with my research.

Thank you!

I made the switch in the second half of 2004 from the regionals to NJA. When I first started regional flying, I had no other goal than a job at a major. However, with the Sept 11 attacks, the airlines and their (mis)management caused me to reconsider.

I've been very happy at NJA. Is everything perfect? No, but I don't think you'll ever find nirvana on earth. That said, both my wife and I very much like the compensation and benefits and she really likes the 7/7 schedule - it makes it so much easier to make plans. As for me, I really do like this sort of flying much more than "A to B to A to C to A..."

You do have something to really think about. If you have an ATP and 2500 hours, you meet the NetJets' minimums. But as you said, you don't have any 121 PIC time. While that's not a requirement per se, having a good amount of 121 PIC time does open other avenues for you, should you ever want to exercise that option.

I think what you need to really think about is whether you consider NetJets to be your career destination. If it is, you should apply ASAP in order to start building that all important seniority. If you aren't so certain, perhaps you should consider staying at your regional and building your PIC time.

Like many other responses that you've received, I really like my job. But this sort of flying isn't for everyone. If you truly believe this is the sort of flying job you want, then do apply ASAP.

Good luck.

 

[blueridge71]

I made the switch as well. Fractional flying is definitely better than the regionals. More days off, better pay, better fringe benefits, more job security.

The seven on is the hardest part. I'm trying to work my way out of debt that I incurred during new-hire years at two regionals and a furlough, so I'm working a lot of overtime which often extends my time away to eight or nine days. The extra money is very nice, but the time away takes a toll.

As to whether it would be better than a major, I don't know. I'm considering whether to apply at some of the big'uns. There are pros and cons to everything.

If you are interested, I would not wait around. It is easy to get golden handcuffs once you make captain pay. I know a lot of regional captains who would like to make a move, but can't afford to. Along those lines, the sooner you make the jump, the sooner you can upgrade at your fractional.

 

[LyodChristmas]

For those that have responded thank you! All the info you've provided has been great, it's nice to post a question and get some good responses. Much different then the ones you get on the regional board.

As of today I don't meet the Min's for most of the fractionals that I would like to apply too, so I'll have to fly for probably another year or so to get my total time up. I've been at PSA for about a year and a half but I've been stuck on reserve (except for a few build up lines) and have only averaged about 40 hours a month. I busted my butt through flight school and flew my butt of flight instructing to get to a regional fast and since I've been here I've mostly been sitting around / getting abused, ha ha!
I figured it doesn't hurt to start researching and planning ahead of time though, and I'd like to thank you all for the advice you have given so far!

If anyone else has any stories please share them, thanks again!

 

[NJA bound]

Never made the switch, but I've been at JetNets for over a year and I like it here, don't see any company I'd leave it for soon.

 

[bailout]

How many Frac guys leave to go to the Regionals? none.....

 

[pilotpat]

How many Frac guys leave to go to the Regionals? none.....

Dude...you read my f'ng mind.


He must work out...

 

[V1 Rotate]

For those that have responded thank you! All the info you've provided has been great, it's nice to post a question and get some good responses. Much different then the ones you get on the regional board.

I think you have part of your answer right there.....

 

[fischman]

I'll never go back to a regional or a major. No scheduling pressures, crew food:erm: , 7 off, decent pay (once you upgrade which if you got hired today at NJA I would assume to be between 3 to 5 years), nice aircraft, no commute (if you live in your domicile), hotel and airline points (I get about 400,000 Hilton points a year; enough for a week in Hawaii or 10 days in Orlando with the kids)

Cons:
F.O. pay sux. At NJA 1st year FO base pay is $39,000 and 5th year pay is $47,405. I would plan on worst case scenario, but I think you could count on about $10,000 more than that if you can get done with IOE quickly and start getting extended days, holiday pay, and OT.

Have you heard about the domiciles? You will be based out of either CMH, TEB, DAL, PBI, or LAX. Plan on that until at least 2010. That is when the contract is amendable.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Correct. He was very happy at NJA during his stay.

Yes I was, and even with a job offer from UPS, it was not an easy decision to quit NJA for me....it was primarily a financial one.

That being said, the fractional lifestyle may not be every pilot's cup of tea. It is a very different type of flying (that I loved), and the level of customer service expected/given by fractional pilots far surpasses any level of customer service I was required to give in the Part 121 passenger world. If any pilot out there feels that it is beneath them to clean and stock the aircraft, or to throw bags, then the job title of NJA pilot is not for you.

If you want a job with an outstanding and stable company, that offers excellent benefits, flying superbly maintained, spotless aircraft all over the place, you can't go wrong with NJA.

 

[Just Peachy]

Nja

Archie...you are too kind...

 

[learflyer]

just hard to get past that fo pay though. 47,500 for fifth yr pay?

 

[Twotter76]

Yup SIC pay is much lower than it should be. BTW that number is for a SIC on the 7/7. If you were on reserve that number would be $56,260. Still not great for five years but keep in mind that it is base salary and you will make more than that. The union has acknowledged that SIC pay isnt where it should be and im sure that will be a hot button item when we go back to negotiations seeing as how there will be many of us who are 3+ year SICs at that point.

 

[CA1900]

Also factor in that medical, dental, and vision insurance is fully paid, which is effectively a couple thousand more. You'll also generally take home most of your per-diem, since you won't spend it if you're eating company-provided crew meals on the road. That's a few thousand more in your pocket. That takes a little of the sting out of it.