Airlines to Fractionals questions

[NoJoy]

For those that do not live in the domicile-I live in SEA-how do they commute to work for a company like NJA? SEA used to be one of their "gateways" but not anymore. Is moving to your new base the only way to get to work?

 

[imacdog]

You can live anywhere you want, and as long as you can get yourself to domicile by the start of your tour then you are fine. At the end of your tour you can purchase an airline ticket home and the company will reimburse you up to the expense of an airline ticket to your domicile.

 

[Guitar Guy]

For those that do not live in the domicile-I live in SEA-how do they commute to work for a company like NJA? SEA used to be one of their "gateways" but not anymore. Is moving to your new base the only way to get to work?

You can live wherever you want, there is no rule about living within so many miles or minutes of your domicile. However, it falls upon the pilot to get him/herself to the domicile show location at the assigned time on day one of a tour.

Many of the new-hires that I've met who don't live at their domicile drive to/from work. However, some do purchase airline tickets for their commutes. As imacdog pointed out, there is some re-imbursement from the company for the ticket home on the last day which may or may not cover the cost of the ticket one has purchased.

 

[NoJoy]

Thanks for the heads up. So the Co. will re-imburse the ride home, but not the ride to work. It would be nice if there were a way NJA or other fractionals were in the CASS system. Would make commuting easier for pilots. How does the system work for NJI? Does the Co. travel you to and from your domicile as well?

 

[VVJM265]

Just to be clear - NJA will reimburse the ride home up to the cost of what they would have paid to get you back to the domicle. If the cost to where you want to go is less than that, then its a wash. If it costs more than what they would have paid to get you to the domicile, they take it out of your per diem (if you use the compnay credit card) or you just pay out of pocket (if you use your own cc).

So far for my limited experience, it is working out OK on the way home getting back to CRP (I'm DAL based). Most times I come out ahead on the cost of the ticket. Usually its becuse the dummy ticket is to DFW and they have to reimburse me for the cab ride that I would have taken from DFW to DAL.

The night before day 1 I buy take the last SWA flight out @ $98, $13 cab to the Hawthorne Inn near DAL for the NJA rate of $43.

As to the original post - run, don't walk as soon as you can to the fracs. I came here stright from the Navy after 20 yrs and after listening to the horror stories from my indoc classmates, I am ever so grateful that I never had to deal with the regionals. To a soul, they are all happy to be here, as am I.

And to all the other bennies at NJA every one mentioned, don't forget the 50% match on the 401k! That's $7750 free money if you can max it out. One very young single guy came in my class came here from a regional and said that NJA was like a $15k/yr raise for him. His plan was to continue to live on what he was making before and stuff the extra into the 401K.

Best of luck!
VVJM265

 

[Abbey]

just hard to get past that fo pay though. 47,500 for fifth yr pay?

That is way more money than I was making as a 5th year FO at Mesaba and I had a crappy schedule. I also paid 300 bones a month for crappy health insurance. I also had to move to crappy cities, MEM & DTW, because I refuse to give up days off to commute. I don't get a talking to if I am sick. I could go on and on.

My W2 is on pace for $55K on year 2 FO pay at NJA due to the soft money embedded in the contract. I just can't believe I wasted so many years....No one to blame but myself.

 

[skyaddict]

I will also throw my hat in as a former regional dog, that quality of life (along with some other soft money bennies like medical and 401k etc) is much better- certainly at NetJets. As was stated, 7-day tours "feel" more like an airline 5-day. The only major caveat I'd make of QOL at airlines vs fracs is if one lives in an airline base and has a family (or is in a great relationship) and is senior enough to consistently hold (or build) a line with day trips, some weekends off etc. But in today's airline world that tends to be either rare or very temporary.

The lists of pros/cons is rather different from those at an airline. A few frac cons in my experience, since I am not a morning person, is a disproportionate number of early morning shows. Had my share at the airlines but at least you could try and bid around them. Overnights tend to be much shorter for me now on average, but at least there is no such thing as reduced rest, and there is a solid fatigue policy that is never questioned. Besides, at regionals my memory of long overnights were that they were inevitably in some suburban Holiday Inn stuck in podunk anyhow. With 10-12 hour overnights now common, I do find it much harder (though not impossible) to workout and stay fit on frac overnights than I did on airline ones, though the hotels (and hence the gyms) tend to be much better quality. Crew food, while the menu is a bit limited, is far superior to the food court crxp of airline life and I rarely spend a dime of my own on per diem.

Re. doing "dirty work" (bags, cleaning, stocking), before I came over I feared it out of ignorance a bit, but even in the APUless (hot in summer, cold in winter) Ultra I find it is no big deal. There is no pressure to rush here, you do what you have to do and are ready when you are ready. The customer service/human contact element adds variety, and the flying is far less humdrum than going in and out of airline hubs.

I never came here expecting a quick upgrade- I think NJA is more of a tortoise than a hare in the growth race- consistency rather than lightning spurts- so the pay hike delay can be a bit painful, but the clientelle is certainly more stable and less fickle to economic cycles. The current airline growth cycle is fairly strong, but you are right that there will be some big winners but also big losers, even with the global (mostly overseas) pilot shortage.

As was also stated, things are far from perfect, so we need to aggressively keep working on better and better QOL improvements- eg more incentives for less FBO rot- and the current airline growth cycle will provide some ammunition for that struggle.

Finally, if you have your heart set on fracs as opposed to the airlines, I wouldn't delay it to get PIC time, unless you can be sure of a quick upgrade. Of course, at NJA right now there may be important QOL reasons to wait for a domicile of your choice, and that's a different story. Hopefully the silly domicile system will get ditched in due course, but for now its there.

Best of luck

 

[gutshotdraw]

Sky, that was a lucid, well-written, accurate, and helpful post. Clearly not allowed by FI rules :laugh:

 

[LyodChristmas]

Sky- Thanks for the great post! Well you guys have sold me, I want out of the regionals! Only problem is my total time is only about 1500 hours right now. I've been on reserve and build up lines for a year and a half here at PSA and I'm just starting to hold line flying now. Needless to say I only averaged about 40 hours a month on reserve so my progress gaining total time slowed down a lot from when I was flight instructing 100 hours a month. With most fractional mins at 2500 it will be a least another year until I'm at the point where I'm meeting the mins to apply. I will put my resume in this weekend with NJA and maybe CS and Flex just to get the ball rolling, it can't hurt, and maybe they will start a file for me. Gotta start studying for the ATP written and get that out of the way as well!

Again thanks for all the great info and anyone with other stories of making the jump, please share it's great to read some "happy" posts! Nothing like the posts on the regional & major forums!!! I guess for now I'll just continue to go with the "flow" over here and just keep building my resume up the best I can until I'm competitive to get a job at one of the fractionals. I'm sure a lot will change in a years time!

Thanks again!

 

[Guitar Guy]

I will put my resume in this weekend with NJA and maybe CS and Flex just to get the ball rolling, it can't hurt, and maybe they will start a file for me. Gotta start studying for the ATP written and get that out of the way as well!

Just to clarify, you will need the ATP, not just the written test, to get hired at NetJets. I think you may already be aware of that requirement, but I just wanted to make sure so that you can plan accordingly.

Good luck and I hope you reach your goal.

 

[learflyer]

On a side note, when hired at NJA, are you automatically put on reserve, or can you ask for the 7/7 right off the bat?

 

[imacdog]

That really depends on a few factors, not the least of which is when during the year you get hired. We have four bids per year to change your schedule, and if you get hired at the right time you could theoretically go straight to the line on a 7/7 schedule. Otherwise you will be on reserve until you get released to IOE and can bid a 7/7 schedule. Our next schedule period starts on August 1st, so those finishing with training now are looking at being on reserve until at least then. Once you are on a 7/7 you cannot be bumped off it, and do not need to bid again unless you want to change back to reserve, or change your start day, etc. When you transition aircraft or upgrade you will be put back on reserve until you can bid 7/7 again. The nice thing about being put on reserve automatically is you make reserve pay when in training.

 

[learflyer]

and the reserve is a certain number of on/off days per month? thanks. (i know, could've done a search)

 

[imacdog]

Here's the entire NetJets contract, should you wish to browse the entire document:

http://www.ibt1108.org/public_new-contract.html

On reserve you work a maximum of 18 days per month, with four hard days off that you can bid for. The trip lengths on reserve vary and there are rules for how many days off you get at the end of your reserve trip, depending on how many days you were on the road.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Just to clarify, you will need the ATP, not just the written test, to get hired at NetJets. I think you may already be aware of that requirement, but I just wanted to make sure so that you can plan accordingly.

Good luck and I hope you reach your goal.

All ATPs - worth every penny.

 

[Twotter76]

and the reserve is a certain number of on/off days per month? thanks. (i know, could've done a search)

Nevermind I see someone answered this previously.

 

[Jafo73]

All ATP's for the written. Jon Trask in Presque Isle, Maine for the practical... At least for former military he is definately worth every penny!

 

[starlifter27]

All ATP's for the written. Jon Trask in Presque Isle, Maine for the practical... At least for former military he is definately worth every penny!

He definately is money in the bank, but a couple guys from my unit went up there earlier this spring and apparently he's retiring from the checkride business this summer when the runway up there closes for repaving or something. So get up there while the getting is good. Easiest checkride you'll ever take by far!

 

[glasspilot]

For those that have responded thank you! All the info you've provided has been great, it's nice to post a question and get some good responses. Much different then the ones you get on the regional board.

As of today I don't meet the Min's for most of the fractionals that I would like to apply too, so I'll have to fly for probably another year or so to get my total time up. I've been at PSA for about a year and a half but I've been stuck on reserve (except for a few build up lines) and have only averaged about 40 hours a month. I busted my butt through flight school and flew my butt of flight instructing to get to a regional fast and since I've been here I've mostly been sitting around / getting abused, ha ha!
I figured it doesn't hurt to start researching and planning ahead of time though, and I'd like to thank you all for the advice you have given so far!

If anyone else has any stories please share them, thanks again!

Okay, first; Grammar. "and flew my butt of fligt instructing". I assume you meant you, "flew your butt OFF flight instructing."

That aside. You claim to have "flown your butt off" yet you only have 1,500 hours total time? I'm sorry. I just sense a bit of intitlement. Fly your regional for awhile. Get off your build up / reserve line and get some experiance. I respect the fact that you don't like it right now but hey, you're on reserve! Being junior sucks no matter where you are. Get some stick time, LEARN, and then assess where you want to go.

Flame Disclaimer: I know, I jumped right on this guy. However, with his super low time I feel there are MUCH better qualified pilots at the regionals to decide that they don't like it and decide to come on over to the fracs. Let him get some experiance at the new job he has and then decide if he likes it or not.

 

[CA1900]

Okay, first; Grammar.

Grammar shouldn't be capitalized. -2 Sentence fragment. -2.

"and flew my butt of fligt instructing".

"Fligt" isn't a word, and the period goes inside the quotation marks. -4

I assume you meant you, "flew your butt OFF flight instructing."

Improper use of comma. -2

That aside.

Sentence fragment. -2

I just sense a bit of intitlement.

The word is entitlement. -2

...get some experiance.

The word is experience. -2



You get a solid "B," but you had better work on that if you're going to take the reigns as resident grammar-Nazi.