Spirit QOL Questions

[nonstop]

Are you guys PBS? Whats the min days off for a reserve and for a line holder? What does a line look like for a junior, mid seniority and senior guy in base? I know you have day trips but about what percentage of lines are only or mostly day trips? What are the sizes of your DTW and FLL bases? How senior do you have to be to hold commutable trips (or is there even such a thing there)?

What's your vacation accrual rate? Does 1 week = 1 week or can you knock trips out and turn 1 week into 2-3 weeks?

Realistically, without killing yourself how much do your FO's take in? How hard is it to drop trips?

Looks like with your aircraft order a 5 year upgrade is almost a certainty... fair statement?

Trying to get an idea of what life is like for a Spirit guy.

 

[nonstop]

More I forgot. Where's your training done? Single occupancy hotel room? Pay during training? How longs initial take, about 1 month?

 

[gatorbird]

Are you guys PBS? Whats the min days off for a reserve and for a line holder? What does a line look like for a junior, mid seniority and senior guy in base? I know you have day trips but about what percentage of lines are only or mostly day trips? What are the sizes of your DTW and FLL bases? How senior do you have to be to hold commutable trips (or is there even such a thing there)?

What's your vacation accrual rate? Does 1 week = 1 week or can you knock trips out and turn 1 week into 2-3 weeks?

Realistically, without killing yourself how much do your FO's take in? How hard is it to drop trips?

Looks like with your aircraft order a 5 year upgrade is almost a certainty... fair statement?

Trying to get an idea of what life is like for a Spirit guy.

No PBS under the current contract; it's said that the company really wants it due to transitions (says it costs too much every month) and vacations. If I'm eligible to vote on the upcoming contract me and (hopefully) most pilots will vote no if the language is there for PBS. Actually, we have a provision in the current contract that calls for a minimum of 4 days off in a row; it is relieved only early in the month during transition. This is a quality of life-saver for commuters like me.

Vacation time is accrued in hours, not days...actually works out better that way for pilots. And yes, under the current rules, if your trip touches it, it's dropped.

Min days off for lineholders is 13, 12 for reserves. Average for June in FLL is 14. Although there are more out-and-backs for June than normal, most trips are still 3 and 4 days.

There is a lot of parity right now in quality of lines; due to the 4-day-off rule, most lines have some weekends off, and all are commutable. With swaps, you can build a very commutable schedule. All time picked up over your original awarded hours is paid at 150%; JA at 200%. BTW, if you don't want JA, DON'T PICK UP THE PHONE; no ACARS to contact scheduling, etc.

I am considered junior (JAN 07 hire); I'm bidding a junior hard line, and I credited 115 hours for April, will credit a little over 100 for May, both with 15 days off for the month. If you're off reserve (most are), you can make easy extra money without screwing yourself out of QOL.

IF ALL REMAINS THE SAME...orders come as planned, no merger, normal attrition, no Arab influences, etc...then a 5-year upgrade is realistic. We have some TWA/AA, USAir, and a few United furloughs going back, so attrition is picking up.

I'd rate our QOL somewhere between a good regional and a legacy (maybe a little closer to a legacy). IMHO, the only real changes needed in the current contract are FO pay (currently not at 60-65% of CA pay), industry standard for CA (currently a little low), and Int'l override pay if you have to clear customs (8%); currently, the company does not recognize Carib as int'l.

Paid for training, good hotels (single-occupancy, of course; this ain't your Daddy's regional), and rental car in MIA (sim training). I was blown away by the way we were treated in training; good bunch. They target a 6-week training cycle. BTW, it's a PIC type in the A320 (nice to have in the back pocket).

Hope this helps.

gator

 

[Shrek]

No PBS under the current contract; it's said that the company really wants it due to transitions (says it costs too much every month) and vacations. If I'm eligible to vote on the upcoming contract me and (hopefully) most pilots will vote no if the language is there for PBS. Actually, we have a provision in the current contract that calls for a minimum of 4 days off in a row; it is relieved only early in the month during transition. This is a quality of life-saver for commuters like me.

Vacation time is accrued in hours, not days...actually works out better that way for pilots. And yes, under the current rules, if your trip touches it, it's dropped.

Min days off for lineholders is 13, 12 for reserves. Average for June in FLL is 14. Although there are more out-and-backs for June than normal, most trips are still 3 and 4 days.

There is a lot of parity right now in quality of lines; due to the 4-day-off rule, most lines have some weekends off, and all are commutable. With swaps, you can build a very commutable schedule. All time picked up over your original awarded hours is paid at 150%; JA at 200%. BTW, if you don't want JA, DON'T PICK UP THE PHONE; no ACARS to contact scheduling, etc.

I am considered junior (JAN 07 hire); I'm bidding a junior hard line, and I credited 115 hours for April, will credit a little over 100 for May, both with 15 days off for the month. If you're off reserve (most are), you can make easy extra money without screwing yourself out of QOL.

IF ALL REMAINS THE SAME...orders come as planned, no merger, normal attrition, no Arab influences, etc...then a 5-year upgrade is realistic. We have some TWA/AA, USAir, and a few United furloughs going back, so attrition is picking up.

I'd rate our QOL somewhere between a good regional and a legacy (maybe a little closer to a legacy). IMHO, the only real changes needed in the current contract are FO pay (currently not at 60-65% of CA pay), industry standard for CA (currently a little low), and Int'l override pay if you have to clear customs (8%); currently, the company does not recognize Carib as int'l.

Paid for training, good hotels (single-occupancy, of course; this ain't your Daddy's regional), and rental car in MIA (sim training). I was blown away by the way we were treated in training; good bunch. They target a 6-week training cycle. BTW, it's a PIC type in the A320 (nice to have in the back pocket).

Hope this helps.

gator

and no HAT required............lol

 

[nonstop]

and no HAT required............lol

Hah... and that counts for something, for sure. Thanks for the info guys.

So, how senior would you have to be to do all (or mostly) day trips? I'm assuming they go senior (like most everywhere).

 

[enigma]

No PBS under the current contract; it's said that the company really wants it due to transitions (says it costs too much every month) and vacations. If I'm eligible to vote on the upcoming contract me and (hopefully) most pilots will vote no if the language is there for PBS. Actually, we have a provision in the current contract that calls for a minimum of 4 days off in a row; it is relieved only early in the month during transition. This is a quality of life-saver for commuters like me.

PBS is in the current contract, see Section 25.

Four days off can be guaranteed with pref bid if the pilot group demands it.

Four days off is not the QOL life saver that you think it is.

Vacation time is accrued in hours, not days...actually works out better that way for pilots. And yes, under the current rules, if your trip touches it, it's dropped.

Min days off for lineholders is 13, 12 for reserves. Average for June in FLL is 14. Although there are more out-and-backs for June than normal, most trips are still 3 and 4 days.

There is a lot of parity right now in quality of lines; due to the 4-day-off rule, most lines have some weekends off, and all are commutable. With swaps, you can build a very commutable schedule. All time picked up over your original awarded hours is paid at 150%; JA at 200%. BTW, if you don't want JA, DON'T PICK UP THE PHONE; no ACARS to contact scheduling, etc.

I am considered junior (JAN 07 hire); I'm bidding a junior hard line, and I credited 115 hours for April, will credit a little over 100 for May, both with 15 days off for the month. If you're off reserve (most are), you can make easy extra money without screwing yourself out of QOL.

Crediting 43 hours over guarantee only guarantees that you will be expected to continue to work for slave wages. Think status quo, and no I'm not calling for a moratorium on OT.

IF ALL REMAINS THE SAME...orders come as planned, no merger, normal attrition, no Arab influences, etc...then a 5-year upgrade is realistic. We have some TWA/AA, USAir, and a few United furloughs going back, so attrition is picking up.

I'd rate our QOL somewhere between a good regional and a legacy (maybe a little closer to a legacy). IMHO, the only real changes needed in the current contract are FO pay (currently not at 60-65% of CA pay), industry standard for CA (currently a little low), and Int'l override pay if you have to clear customs (8%); currently, the company does not recognize Carib as int'l.

please do us all a favor and cease telling management that you'll be happy with small gains. Some of us are working our arses off trying to get you up to industry average. Current wages at Spirit are not "a little low" in comparison to industry average. Total compensation at Spirit is a lot low, so low that it will take us fives times the gain that the industry expects just to get us up to where the industry is NOW.

Paid for training, good hotels (single-occupancy, of course; this ain't your Daddy's regional), and rental car in MIA (sim training). I was blown away by the way we were treated in training; good bunch. They target a 6-week training cycle. BTW, it's a PIC type in the A320 (nice to have in the back pocket).

Hope this helps.

gator

 

[enigma]

and no HAT required............lol

Buy a hat, and prepare to wear it on an informational picket line.:bomb:
Prater loves to walk a picket line, maybe he'll show up.

Oh yeah, buy some comfortable shoes!

 

[Shrek]

Please do us all a favor and cease telling management that you'll be happy with small gains. Some of us are working our arses off trying to get you up to industry average. Current wages at Spirit are not "a little low" in comparison to industry average. Total compensation at Spirit is a lot low, so low that it will take us fives times the gain that the industry expects just to get us up to where the industry is NOW.

Thanks...........I think that needed to be said.

 

[Shrek]

Buy a hat, and prepare to wear it on an informational picket line.:bomb:

Been there done that............will do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[gatorbird]

PBS is in the current contract, see Section 25.

Four days off can be guaranteed with pref bid if the pilot group demands it.

Four days off is not the QOL life saver that you think it is.



Crediting 43 hours over guarantee only guarantees that you will be expected to continue to work for slave wages. Think status quo, and no I'm not calling for a moratorium on OT.



please do us all a favor and cease telling management that you'll be happy with small gains. Some of us are working our arses off trying to get you up to industry average. Current wages at Spirit are not "a little low" in comparison to industry average. Total compensation at Spirit is a lot low, so low that it will take us fives times the gain that the industry expects just to get us up to where the industry is NOW.

PBS is not currently being utilized; it can be explored by a company/ALPA joint venture if so requested.

As for the 4-day-off guarantee: show me a way I can GUARANTEE I'll be home for ample amounts of time between trips, and I'm all ears. There are lots of ways to build a good schedule (ask a SWA or FedEx guy); I simply view the 4-day-off rule as my protection from lazy crew planners.

While I'll admit I'm uninformed about the details of a PBS system, I'm not opposed to looking in to it. All I have to go by are a few Continental friends (and not all are junior); so far, they hate it and claim that ALPA will have to spend lots of time and negotiating power to get rid of it/fix it. Not what I want to hear about the ride report ahead, you know?

The reason I pointed out my credit is to show that soft time is easy to come by. 115 credit hours to fly less than 75? Still with 15 days off? 2-3 legs a day, tops? Wise up, man, that ain't bad. Of course I'd like a higher hourly wage (I've already said that), but going off our current contract, that's the only way for me to make a descent paycheck.

As for compensation, I did the following (thanks airlinepilotcentral.com):

I took 5-, 7-, 10-, and top-year payscales for Captains on either A320 or B737 at the following carriers: AirTran, Alaska, Frontier, JetBlue, United, and America West (the AWA contract rate; higher than USAir). They ranged from 6.5 to 10.0% higher than our Captain rates.

That's what I meant by "a little low"--an average of 8.25%.

Now, before you bash me as a management-lover, be realistic. Do you really think we're going to go from "worst to first" in one contract? I don't. I do realize that many of the above payscales are from "concessionary" contracts, so we have to take the current upswing (is it?) into account, but come on. Our guys are not going to find themselves looking down at everyone from the top of the heap. Even with a dress and makeup, a pig is still a pig.

I assume by "total compensation package", you mean retirement as well. Again...sure, I'd love to see an increase in our 100%-up-to-8% 401k company contribution; heck, I'd really like a B-fund! But, really, are we going to get the farm? I'm in my early 30s...and I am not counting on the airline industry to pay my retirement...just like I don't count on social security to be around. Hey, I don't like that attitude either, but I'm just trying to use some common sense.

I have confidence in our negotiating committee--I've met two of the guys so far and was impressed. And sure, I'll buy the hat and join you if it comes to it. But I don't expect them to be miracle workers.

gator

 

[frapper]

I completely agree with everything you're saying!

...now which one of you wants to walk my stuff in? :beer:

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

If Spirit indeed has a 100% match up to 8% of salary on the 401k, someone with 25 years there and 20 years as a Captain will do just fine for retirement with that 401k. Compared to many other industries that is a outstanding deal! Doesn't mean the group shouldn't shoot for better of course.

Mr. I.

 

[Shrek]

I completely agree with everything you're saying!

...now which one of you wants to walk my stuff in? :beer:

Giggity giggity.........git git GOOOOOOO......

 

[Flybet3]

Been there done that............will do it again in a heartbeat.

Is that all you do dude? bi*ch and complain about our low paying industry. You are a miserble little man, you should just get out of aviation and join the fast food industry.

 

[Shrek]

Nope.......just a guy who is trying to better my profession in all areas. Where does that leave you? If you are not part of the solution - you must be part of the problem.

Anybody that actually knows me will tell you different than you seem to think I am.

Take care now - and don't worry you can probably still benefit from our work and effort.

 

[Flybet3]

Nope.......just a guy who is trying to better my profession in all areas. Where does that leave you? If you are not part of the solution - you must be part of the problem.

Anybody that actually knows me will tell you different than you seem to think I am.

Take care now - and don't worry you can probably still benefit from our work and effort.

Yeah yeah yeah, how exactly are you trying to better this profession? please tell me, how exactly. Give me something to believe. Where do you work chump? What was your first year pay? have you always been compensated over 100K since your instructor days? Did you tell your current employer when you interviewed that you would not whore your self for a job with them and would not work for less than 100K? Please enlighten us as to how you've always fought for "OUR" pay? Have you always been such a wise man, or did you just wake up one day with all the answers??

 

[Shrek]

I have nothing to prove here bud - just ask the people I have helped over the years and they can ellaborate.

Have you always been compensated over 100K since your instructor days?!!! - come on bud, when you come back with an intelligent response we will talk but.......

You are flamebaiter..............nevermind.

 

[huncowboy]

How senior is FLL? Can you get it out of training?

How is seniority determined within class?

What benefits do you guys get? Health, vision etc...

Can you buy ZED fares?

I understand average days off is 14 as mentioned. How about senior lines? Does it ever go up higher?

Thanks!

 

[saviboy]

I have nothing to prove here bud - just ask the people I have helped over the years and they can ellaborate.Quote]


Shrek helped me.

Huncowboy, go back to the Regionals Forum!!!:laugh:
I tried to call you yesterday, Ill try to call again

Oh by the way....

I GOT HIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to everybody here for their support and help
See you guys in FLL or DTW

Oh and btw let me try to answer your wuaestion even though there are certainly more knowledgeable guys or gals about the topic.

Seniority is determined by hiring date and age within class.
I dont know much about the Health benefits even though I believe the vision program is just a discount program (not 2 sure)
not sure about the rest

 

[Shrek]

I have nothing to prove here bud - just ask the people I have helped over the years and they can ellaborate.Quote]


Shrek helped me.

Huncowboy, go back to the Regionals Forum!!!:laugh:
I tried to call you yesterday, Ill try to call again

Oh by the way....

I GOT HIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to everybody here for their support and help
See you guys in FLL or DTW

Oh and btw let me try to answer your wuaestion even though there are certainly more knowledgeable guys or gals about the topic.

Seniority is determined by hiring date and age within class.
I dont know much about the Health benefits even though I believe the vision program is just a discount program (not 2 sure)
not sure about the rest

Congrats bud........welcome aboard FLL and DTW have been awarded lately........pretty much wherever you want to be. JB comes in and she asks each of you where you want to be........then at the end of that she waves her hand and goes THAT is your base......then walks out. Cool girl.