MESA Loses 24 Million!!!!!

[flyflorida2001]

CFISE is a Mesa management troll. You should see some of the stupid ******************** he posts on the mesa forum. Ignore anything this toll says.

 

[BoilerUP]

Well you clearly don't understand business financials - is there anything else you don't understand you'd like to embarass yourself over.

"Accounting For Dummies" and a night at a Holiday Inn Express would do many folks good, Mesa pilot or otherwise.

Learning to read a 10-K or 10-Q and actually doing it when they are published goes a long way into understanding WTF is going on in an airline's business...

 

[Checknsix]

CFIse,

I don't get it. You believe that a one time write off, that takes a quarter negative, doesn't mean that Mesa is unprofitable. So if my company made $4 million net for three quarters, and then took a $24 million dollar "one time write off", you think that company is worth investing in??? You do understand that Mesa, like others, pays to get their codeshares...ie. loan to America West to get long term contract, $30 million to United to get their flying, engine maintenance contract to Delta to get their flying, and on and on...

You think that a company that defers maintenance as long as they can...for instance on something they consider non-essential like APU's...and then their codeshare tells them that, "Hey, we would like our passengers to actually have a comfortable cabin when they fly you," is somehow unfair to Mesa and it is not something they should have been prepared for???

Mesa ignores their core revenue generating business all day, every day. They spend more time jacking with GO!, China, and trying to collect the worst biggest collection of ragged out, mx intensive Dash 8's, to fly unprofitable runs in the Northeast. They completely ignored the union 9 months ago, when they were told that QOL issues needed to be addressed...that the growth was taking a very large toll on the pilot group. Now they have record numbers of pilots leaving every month...and have not taken any steps to address the attrition, other than sending Chief Pilots out on world tours to recruit 200 hour pilots. We are down to 1600 pilots and that will likely be closer to 1000-1100 pilots by December at the current levels of attrition.

Hope you can swim boy. This boat is sinking fast.

Ridiculous.

- Six

 

[CrownandCoke]

10-K or 10-Q

are those poker hands?

 

[Soverytired]

The thread was about the $24 Million loss and go! is really a small part of it. Aloha isn't going anywhere.

It may stick around for awhile, but I'm not really sure what's the point of it anymore.

I heard Aloha was supposedly quite close to running out of cash (within a week), but the United deal bought them as much time as they'll likely need.

Dumb for United, but smart for Aloha, and a stake in the heart of Go!.

Oh . . . Go will very likely lose the lawsuit from Aloha to boot. Expect a settlement on this one.

 

[Soverytired]

it's partly vindictive as a part of their previous attempts to enter the market and partly to establish an operating plan to operate go! in other parts of the US.

AKA Independence Air and ExpressJet; two less than stellar attempts to run an airline with crappy aircraft.


And those two had employee groups who had a great attitude and vested interest in survival. Mesa employee's just want to G.T.F. out A.S.A.P.

 

[Soverytired]

CFIse,


Mesa ignores their core revenue generating business all day, every day. They spend more time jacking with GO!, China, a

- Six

Heh. Speaking of China, someone told me the #1. purpose of a China operation is to make it extremely easy to embezzle money from the company, as all that out-of-country spending is going to be pretty hard to track.

China is corrupt as hell anyway, so I'm sure if the right palms are greased they'll play along.

It's the first thing about the China Op anyone has ever said that actually made some sense.

(speculation here folks, just speculation)

 

[CFIse]

I don't get it. You believe that a one time write off, that takes a quarter negative, doesn't mean that Mesa is unprofitable. So if my company made $4 million net for three quarters, and then took a $24 million dollar "one time write off", you think that company is worth investing in??? You do understand that Mesa, like others, pays to get their codeshares...ie. loan to America West to get long term contract, $30 million to United to get their flying, engine maintenance contract to Delta to get their flying, and on and on...

I've never said the company was profitable last quarter - I have said it was pro forma profitable - which is an indication that it will be profitable going forward. This is a one time event - sure they're buying Delta off by giving them the engine contract - but there is no lump sum payment for a future write-off involved in that. The America West loan is long gone.

Again - if you don't understand business accounting then you don't understand this, you don't understand any of it, and then you can sit there perfectly happy in your Mesa hating world thinking the company is going down the toilet. I am telling you that financially it is not going down the toilet, I'm trying to give you some information you can use, but if you're too dumb to see that what can I do?

You think that a company that defers maintenance as long as they can...for instance on something they consider non-essential like APU's...and then their codeshare tells them that, "Hey, we would like our passengers to actually have a comfortable cabin when they fly you," is somehow unfair to Mesa and it is not something they should have been prepared for???

Where did I pass an opinion on whether it was fair or reasonable? As a matter of opinion I think the codeshare customers should be holding Mesa to a set of standards since the company is clearly unable to hold itself to a reasonable set of standards. The FACT is that Mesa did not expect to have to fix the equipment and so had not budgeted for it - REGARDLESS those costs are included in the pro forma and while they reduce Mesa's profitability they don't make the company unprofitable.

Mesa ignores their core revenue generating business all day, every day. They spend more time jacking with GO!, China, and trying to collect the worst biggest collection of ragged out, mx intensive Dash 8's, to fly unprofitable runs in the Northeast.

I don't know, and neither do you, what Delta's position on the Dashs was, Mesa clearly stated in the past that the Dash ramp-up was done at a loss to consolidate their position with Delta. It was a clusterf*!k, no question about that, but it was a clusterf*!k long before Delta announced it was handing Mesa 14 CRJ900s to operate, so how do you explain that?

They completely ignored the union 9 months ago, when they were told that QOL issues needed to be addressed...that the growth was taking a very large toll on the pilot group. Now they have record numbers of pilots leaving every month...and have not taken any steps to address the attrition, other than sending Chief Pilots out on world tours to recruit 200 hour pilots. We are down to 1600 pilots and that will likely be closer to 1000-1100 pilots by December at the current levels of attrition.

People are leaving because there are opportunities elsewhere. The problem with you, and most of the pilot group, is you don't have a clue about how Mesa runs its business - and when they run their business in a way you don't understand you get all upset about it and start spouting off. Mesa wants captains to move on - if you're a 5 year captain at Mesa they think they're paying you too much and it's time for you to leave. You may not like that, but if you took the job at Mesa because you thought it was going to be an excellent career then you're the idiot, not the company. Now the FO attrition is inconvenient but the company believes it'll just go out and recruit a bunch more people and replace them.

Now - as a matter of OPINION that seems like a business plan fraught with danger, but that's Mesa's business plan, it's always been their plan, and if that's coming as a shock to you then you're not a very smart person now are you? That's not going to change - Mesa doesn't want to improve the QOL of their pilots because if they do they're afraid more of the high paid captains will stick around and cost them more money. That's a trade off the company is willing to take. You may not like it, speaking as a pilot I'm not too keen on it myself, but at least I was smart enough to know what I was getting into, you apparently were not. You might not think that plan will be successful, I actually happen to think it will eventually work even though it makes things precarious for the next 6-12 months, but since neither of us is actually running Mesa what we think doesn't matter. What Mesa management thinks matters, and they think it's going to work.

People seem to think because I'm explaining facts to them that I'm somehow in Mesa's managment's pocket. I've got my problems with Mesa just like everybody else. I'm smart enough to know that "losing money" is not a problem at Mesa, and therefore if "losing money" could give me leverage, I'm not going to get any leverage since it's not true. If you're going to base your next set of decisions, how you vote in union business and other activity on the fact that Mesa is not profitable you're making a big mistake - Mesa as a going concern is profitable. At Mesa the pilot group is going to have to pick it's battles - when you don't understand the basic business approach Mesa uses you're going to pick the wrong battles to fight.

 

[CFIse]

AKA Independence Air and ExpressJet; two less than stellar attempts to run an airline with crappy aircraft.

And those two had employee groups who had a great attitude and vested interest in survival. Mesa employee's just want to G.T.F. out A.S.A.P.

But my opinion is that Mesa eventually wants to run go! as a discount airline in the US running larger aircraft - 737s, 320s or possibly CRJ1000s or whatever Embraer comes out with after the 190. But whatever it is with enough seats to make it's operating cost reasonable.

How the company makes that transition since it's currently reliant on it's codeshare partners for it's revenue is hard for me to see, but *I* think that's what they want to do, and HI is the opportunity to building a holding place where there is no codeshare issue.

I could be wrong. I agree with everybody else, in and of itself go! in HI is a license to lose money, so you imagine there's something else going on, the question is what is it?

 

[CFIse]

Heh. Speaking of China, someone told me the #1. purpose of a China operation is to make it extremely easy to embezzle money from the company, as all that out-of-country spending is going to be pretty hard to track.

China is corrupt as hell anyway, so I'm sure if the right palms are greased they'll play along.

It's the first thing about the China Op anyone has ever said that actually made some sense.

(speculation here folks, just speculation)

But it makes so much sense - the JV is a Chinese JV, not subject to any of those nasty US laws or interfering entities like the SEC.