What is with the HAT argument?

[V-STALL]

I keep leaving my hat on the plane in the hat hook, but some how it always finds it's way back to me? I Dunno?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Well . . . . it's always been my experience that the guy who is most concerned about the hat/shoes/uniform/newspaper-reading is almost invariably a lousy pilot. Not always, but certainly often enough to make the connection pretty obvious.

LOL! That is so true.

 

[JimNtexas]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I will observe that back in the pre-JFK days when most men wore hats it was considered rude to wear them indoors.

Certainly in the Air Force we never wore a hat indoors.

To my eye a man wearing a hat indoors looks somewhat silly.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Recently I spoke with a freelance photographer for Air Line Pilot magazine. Whenever she takes pictures of pilots she wants the hat to be worn.....

Why?

Image is everything.

As you read this thread, all of the pilots who don't want to wear the hat have personal arguements such as: I don't like it, it is too hot, I look funny, etc.. As you can see, it is all about 'me'.

However, the hat is the only true identifying symbol of an Air Line Pilot. If you watch an all male crew walking to the jet, can you tell who is the Captain? the FO? Male FA uniforms look very pilot like.... Do you want to explain to a gate agent or pax that he is not the pilot and you are?

Of course you don't need a hat to be professional. But this isn't about your perception. It is about the traveling public's.

Whenever any organization wants to promote the image of a pilot, the hat is used. Keep that in mind as you view advertisements, etc..

Whenever pilots want a better contract or they want to get the attention of the the press (picketing) they wear the hat.

With the blatent degrading of the Air Line Pilot you'd think more and more pilots would be doing what they can to keep the image intact. It is very amazing how pilots gladly respond to managements desire to davalue us as professionals.

Many of you cry out! "screw the hat it makes me look like a bus driver!" Well, if you don't wear the hat then you will be treated like a bus driver or a diluted airline worker. An Airline worker is also an aircraft cleaner. Management doesn't care to know the difference.

If we only wear our hats during picketing events and the public comes to the airport on any given day and doesn't see pilots (only pilots who look like FA's, but the public doesn't know that!) then what is the point? Do we only wear our hats when we want a better contract?

If the Air Line Pilot image, which is unquestionably defined by the hat, is good enough for our companies to use when selling tickets, or our unions to use when selling our professionalism, then why is it NOT good enough for us on a daily basis?

 

[Crossky]

Did you wear a hat indoors in the military? Totally inappropriate! Discipline and pride is about much more than wearing a hat! Remember, you are no longer in the military, this is corporate america.

I don't know if your post was directed toward me, I shoulda coulda been in the military, but made my eyes an excuse for not enlisting etc.

I sometimes carry my hat indoors ala military style when I'm hot or when it slips. Our manual requires us to wear it when in view of the public. I have a dislike/tolerate affair with it. Without my hat on I feel like I'm driving without my seatbelt.

 

[number11]

I believe that wearing the uniform the way you are suppose to is part of being a professional. It's the least we can do. Wearing a hat is not only traditional and classy, but passengers don't care how cool you look with your shades on and your hair slicked back. They want to respect you. Pilots wonder why the public opinion has gone down over the years. Have you seen the way pilots look now days. The hat has always been a battle with our company. I don't see the big deal with following procedures. It's not a lot to ask.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I believe that wearing the uniform the way you are suppose to is part of being a professional. It's the least we can do. Wearing a hat is not only traditional and classy, but passengers don't care how cool you look with your shades on and your hair slicked back. They want to respect you. Pilots wonder why the public opinion has gone down over the years. Have you seen the way pilots look now days. The hat has always been a battle with our company. I don't see the big deal with following procedures. It's not a lot to ask.

A part of being professional is not having others tell you how to act, behave and present yourself...

Sure not wearing the hat is more comfortable.. but wearing the hat also instills an image.

Anyone can come up with excuses and reasons not to wear the hat... if so.. then why wear neckties.. Where does one draw the line... Professionals don't enter that realm...

 

[Ty Webb]

There are two sides to this argument. It's like the chicken-or-egg.

I fly the airplane safely, efficiently, and per the contract.

As far as the hat . . . . sorry. The only people that wear hats anymore are bus drivers, skycaps, and a few airlines.

I don't need a hat to look professional. . . . .and I guarantee my passengers would rather see a healthy, fit and confident Captain (me) than a fat, sloppy, pasty-faced, whiskey-nosed tight-ass with a hat (some of the hat nazis).

The hat belongs to the day when pilots were paid so well, and treated with such respect that they were proud to wear the hat. If that day returns, so will my hat, but obviously, wearing the hat will not bring those days back . . . . sorry, folks. That will take a national guild, and most of you guys don't seem ready for the concept.

TW

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There are two sides to this argument. It's like the chicken-or-egg.

Not really..but you need it to be so you can feel better about not wearing the hat...

I fly the airplane safely, efficiently, and per the contract.

And the pax know that because they sit on the jumpseat and watch you do so, they review all of your training records and observe you study on your days off..

The pax are well educated and informed on Part 121 operations and what turbojet flying is all about. Their perception, like TSA security, is aligned with reality....

As far as the hat . . . . sorry. The only people that wear hats anymore are bus drivers, skycaps, and a few airlines.

Who cares about anyone else... no one else are Air Line Pilots. We are Airline pilots and we can define our own image...

I don't need a hat to look professional. . . . .and I guarantee my passengers would rather see a healthy, fit and confident Captain (me) than a fat, sloppy, pasty-faced, whiskey-nosed tight-ass with a hat (some of the hat nazis).

Ahh.. here it is boys.. the 'me' arguement. all of the above is about you.. but it is not about you. it is about all of us..

Why do you need a "fat, sloppy, pasty-faced, whiskey-nosed tight-ass" to make you look better for your arguement? In fact, why not go stand next to a "a healthy, fit and confident Captain " that is wearing a hat and make that arguement? (p.s. I like how you are confident but a sloppy fat guy isn't confident)

The hat belongs to the day when pilots were paid so well, and treated with such respect that they were proud to wear the hat. If that day returns, so will my hat, but obviously, wearing the hat will not bring those days back . . . . sorry, folks.

Oh..so the hat does have something to do with respect. So your respect and pride comes from your pay and how you are treated and not how you feel about yourself. Where I come from that is pretty shallow.

Respect starts within. What you are talking about is an attitude that is reflective of your environment. In other words, if you don't like the weather then you have a negative mood.

That will take a national guild, and most of you guys don't seem ready for the concept.

TW

So if you get your National guild then you'll wear the hat?

Why do pilots who picket wear the hat?


I have yet to hear a valid professional reason against the hat. All the reasons given are personal reasons.

 

[Benhuntn]

HAT divided by 3 = VDP distance to runway. Oh wait you really did mean Hats.....sorry dude didn't mean to hijack....can't contribute as I never wear a hat.

 

[Deerkiller]

Did you wear a hat indoors in the military? Totally inappropriate! Discipline and pride is about much more than wearing a hat! Remember, you are no longer in the military, this is corporate america.

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Hats are removed when inside, except for places that are akin to public streets, like lobbies, corridors, and crowded elevators (non-residential). In a public building (where there are no apartments) the elevator is considered a public area.

[/FONT]Indoors, a man should always remove his hat, (particularly in a home, church, school, court room or restaurant) except:
(1) in public buildings or public places such as railroad stations(i think airport terminal meets this) or post offices;
(2) in a general department store;
(3) or while seated at the "lunch counter" of a diner or cafe;
(4) in entrance halls and corridors of office buildings, or hotels;
(5) in elevators of public or office buildings, unless a woman is present;
(6) if carrying packages, parcels or bags and both hands are occupied upon entry.



These are from two different websites i googled.


dk

 

[FLYLOW22]

Google is nice but the respective company FOM most likely deals with uniform compliance a bit better in this case.

Respect is a 2 way street. Give up and the ultimate concession is made; your Pride.


Screw management if they continue to disrespect. There are better ways to deal with them than destroying the professional image pilots have long had.

Just my .02...

 

[Deerkiller]

Google is nice but the respective company FOM most likely deals with uniform compliance a bit better in this case.

Respect is a 2 way street. Give up and the ultimate concession is made; your Pride.


Screw management if they continue to disrespect. There are better ways to deal with them than destroying the professional image pilots have long had.

Just my .02...

Yup, you're right...however, my post was in response to those that believe wearing the hat in the terminal is bad etiquette. Read the quote from my post. That is what i was referring to.

My company requires the hat from Oct 15 to April 15. I wear it proudly. Although, like i said previously it goes into the closet on April 16.

dk

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yup, you're right...however, my post was in response to those that believe wearing the hat in the terminal is bad etiquette. Read the quote from my post. That is what i was referring to.

My company requires the hat from Oct 15 to April 15. I wear it proudly. Although, like i said previously it goes into the closet on April 16.

dk

Easy Trigger. Put the gun down!!

I mean no harm!!

 

[Deerkiller]

Easy Trigger. Put the gun down!!

I mean no harm!!

:beer: beer currently being consumed in celebration of, well, who needs a reason.

gun holstered btw

 

[Powda5]

I think the guys look sharp with the hat on. I think most of the women look ridiculous no matter which hat they have on. I'm just basing it on what it LOOKS like to me (don't go reading into it).

Everyone looks like a schmuck with a big fat belly. Not to mention shirts not ironed and double creases everywhere, pants too short/tight and the black sneakers. Man--get rid of the dorky black sneakers!!!

I saw a UAL guy last week with a tailored shirt, hat on correctly, in shape, new looking shoes, etc, etc, and I was impressed. He looked sharp. Made me think about why I don't look that sharp, that's for sure. That guy could have come up with a lot of reasons to look like crap, I'm sure.

 

[Ty Webb]

Not really..but you need it to be so you can feel better about not wearing the hat...

This post is from Rez O Lotion, whose previous avatar was for an organization of bisexual pilots . . . . . . nice . . . .


So, it stands to reason, of course, that you're very concerned about hats . . . . . . and handbags, I'm sure.

Do us all a favor and clean up your own house before you start worrying about someone else.


.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ty-

Your debate wit is impressive.... your ability to stick to the issues is rare indeed.

On your next flight bring milk and cookies. When you get up to Flight Level whatever.. ask the FA to serve you your snack. Between being served and the sugar in the cookies you'll feel like a million bucks....

You da man!

 

[ForgedBlade]

A guy I flew with recently saw another guy driving his car to the employee lot with his coat AND hat - now that is funny!

I was at Doc Dellorso's office here at EWR getting a physical last month and three guys came in wearing full uniform AND hat. I had my uniform shirt on, but a windbreaker over it - me and another guy just rolled our eyes. I'm sure these other guys might have gone off grocery shopping afterwards with the uniform and hat on as well (I think all of us just got in from Int'l trips)!

Personally, I don't really like the hat, and with a full head of hair, my head sweats! Sometimes I just have to take it off and carry it to cool off. On a good note, my boots are always shined, my shirt is pressed, and I stay in shape - that is a better image than these hats...

 

[Gate 69]

I saw an interview with Arnold Palmer once who said, "Gentlemen always remove their hats indoors." Military has the same policy.

That's why it's not on my head in the terminal, crew room, airplane, bus etc. Nor do I remember that coming up on my interview or signing my rights away during indoc. Some of us believe it's the polite thing to do.