USAirways / America West call from Pilot Recruitment

[BenderGonzales]

I was called...(I declined)Weren't you called? Or were you frozen at your J4J carrier and unable to accept the position when it was available?

 

[ALGFLYR]

Correct. And there were about 1700 pilots senior to them who were not called to those positions. A recall out of seniority if I've ever seen one.

Therefore: 1) I WANT MY STOCK, and 2) I WANT MY TIME IN SERVICE ADJUSTED.

Thank you. Get back to me with the details.

BC

EVERY pilot on the APL, ALL 1700, were offered a MDA position, with maybe the exception of those wanting to go but were held at a J4J carrier. When the first class of CEL pilots went to MDA, they knew they were going to be on the AAA seniority list as an AAA pilot. Period. In order for the first CEL pilots to bid over, that meant EVERY APL pilot was offered a position and accepted or passed (again with maybe the exception of those held at a J4J carrier).

As far as adjusted LOS, if someone junior to you was given LOS credit for MDA, and you did not go, you were brought up to there LOS to preserve relative position on the seniority list.

 

[ALGFLYR]

As far as adjusted LOS, if someone junior to you was given LOS credit for MDA, and you did not go, you were brought up to there LOS to preserve relative position on the seniority list.

Just another thought on this so as not to cause confusion...

LOS is only being used for seniority list integration. Not one pilot at MDA, APL or CEL, got any credit for longevity at MDA. If you were at AAA for 2 years before being furloughed, you will go back on the 3 year pay scale. If the guy junior to you was also at AAA for 2 years before furlough and then went to MDA for 2 years, when he is recalled, he will also be on the 3 year pay scale, with no credit for time in service at MDA...

 

[BeCareful!]

Wrong on a few points, ALG...

There are points on the list where people junior to others have a longer time in service. I've seen it.

Also, you're correct that many were offered MDA positions. MDA positions, back when we wistfully thought there actually was an MDA. Now, we find out it was mainline, nothing more, nothing less.

I was held at a J4J carrier and was not allowed to go back to mainline....oops....I mean, MDA....er, Mainline.

This was not supposed to happen, and I've been left out of a hell of a lot of stock in the process.

 

[MK82Man]

Ify2slo & Formula1: Here are some thoughts. First off, the 190 might not be much of a deal but at 40K at year, but it isn’t the kiss of death. You’d be based in Philly, so you have to sign up to live there or close by. I would not recommend commuting into Philly. A step backwards pay wise from where you are today, most likely. One of the better things about going to the 190 on the East side is a 12 month lock. I think we advertised on the West that it would be an 18 month lock (might have just been for the Capt upgrade). No FOs from the West are leaving mainline for East 190 FO billets. Anyway, after 12 months you can bid out and you could bid West 757, 737, Airbus FO if you seniority would hold it – assuming since you interviewed West, you really want West. The Million Dollar question is “what will your seniority hold one year from now.” At a minimum, you could bid East Big Jet equipment and your pay would go up 50% as you move out of the 190 (probably into reserve though). Right now, it is a gamble, but with so many East guys bypassing, the company is really in the dark. Once we go all the way down the list and nobody wants the 190, you would be on the top of the stack of new hire 190 FOs – a great deal, maybe not, but probably an ok deal, at least you could control your bids and vacation some. If in fact, large numbers of East guys bypass on big jet equipment (IE never intend to come back, or mil leave of absence) as the company works the way down and then again back up the list, it might forecast big jet and 190 jet hiring off the street in early 08. IF so, you would move out of the 190 and into big jets and be senior to some new hire (big jet dude) in mid/late 08. You might move out of the 190 and right into a line on Big Jets while the new hire stays on reserve. So many East guys have moved on and into new lives, nobody knows how many will really come back.

It is indeed a gamble but it looks like we will make money in the first quarter and the next six months should be profitable. I’d guess our combined contract will raise our wages at least 10% or so from the West standard which would be a nice increase for the East guys from where they are now. Of course we are all hoping/committed to more. Expect some large aircraft order to be announced in the next 60 days and if you are young enough, you might be able to fly it 10/15 years from now. Age 60 rule and East Retirement numbers will impact everyone’s lifestyle. Flow through, JFJ, PSA, MDA – all of those will be considered by the arbitrator (as far as the combined list) and who knows where East, West, & others will end up on the combined list. I agree any new hire will be at the end of the arbitrator’s list ... just our seniority list in the future. In the absence of any current agreed to East/West flow through agreements (no company announcements that I know of so far), I’d expect guys who come to mainline US after you (accepting the 190) would in fact be placed below you on the new list.

Hard to forecast for sure. Take stock of your personal life and if you can afford to gamble a little, leap out and take the 190. If you want to straddle the fence for a while, ok, but you would probably have to re-interview in the future. Most guys advise interviewees to take the first airline job you are offered and then springboard from there. Easier to find new work when you have work. Good luck in your decision.

 

[BenderGonzales]

mk82 said, "...as the company works the way down and then again back up the list"

Just so we all understand precisely how this works -- EVERY bid starts from the top of the furlough list. They call the most senior pilot on furlough and work down to the most junior.

As long as someone junior to you remains on furlough, you may bypass.

As long as the recall is to an E190, you may bypass.

So this new bid for 130 pilots will start over again on the top of the furlough list. They will go down as far as it takes on the list to fill those 130 spots.

IF (and it's a big IF) they are unable to get 130 people to accept recall when they get to the most junior person on the list, they have the right to say, "Take it or leave it". As long as the recalls are to group II or better aircraft they can then move back up the list asking "take it or leave it" until they have their 130 people.

When the bid that FOLLOWS this one comes out, they start at the TOP of the furlough list again! So each and every bid must go all the way through the furlough list (well over 1000 people) before "working back up the list".

Ok, so let's talk about the E190. A bid comes out for 56 E190 positions. They work through 1500+ furloughees and all of them bypass until they get to the bottom guy and he bypasses as well.

NOW the company can hire into the E190... BUT ONLY ENOUGH TO STAFF THAT BID!!!

If the NEXT bid comes out and has another 50 E190 positions, guess what? They start at the TOP of the furlough list, work allllll the way down to the bottom and THEN, if they haven't found 50 people desperate enough to work for those payrates, they can hire those 50.

This, of course, is all subject to the company abiding by the contract. I would expect that when the contracts are finally merged, that provision would go away. (It's not realistic, long term, (in terms of crew planning), to allow indefinite bypass for a single piece of equipment that results in HIRING with pilots on furlough.)

 

[m80drvr]

I'm confused,

I was laid off and got a better paying job than MDA, so my longevity is about 2 1/2 years. Some CEL guys may have more LOS than me. Are they expecting to be recalled senior to me, or at a higher payscale. Did I get the shaft because I found a better job?

Confusing.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Just got a note from the furlough administrator. Will publish on a separate thread.

 

[Crzipilot]

M80drvr,
No, they are listed at the bottom of the seniority list, below everyone else. And I agree with BeCarefull, Where the hel* are my stock options????????

I'm confused,

I was laid off and got a better paying job than MDA, so my longevity is about 2 1/2 years. Some CEL guys may have more LOS than me. Are they expecting to be recalled senior to me, or at a higher payscale. Did I get the shaft because I found a better job?

Confusing.

 

[ALGFLYR]

I'm confused,

I was laid off and got a better paying job than MDA, so my longevity is about 2 1/2 years. Some CEL guys may have more LOS than me. Are they expecting to be recalled senior to me, or at a higher payscale. Did I get the shaft because I found a better job?

Confusing.

No. LOS and longevity are two different things. You will NEVER be junior to a CEL pilot. LOS is a term being used for integrating the combined list. Even if a CEL has more LOS, you will be senior to him and have more longevity, unless they get recalled and you pass and they build up more longevity credit than you before you come back. And even if that happens, you will still be senior to them.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

EVERY pilot on the APL, ALL 1700, were offered a MDA position, with maybe the exception of those wanting to go but were held at a J4J carrier. When the first class of CEL pilots went to MDA, they knew they were going to be on the AAA seniority list as an AAA pilot. Period. In order for the first CEL pilots to bid over, that meant EVERY APL pilot was offered a position and accepted or passed (again with maybe the exception of those held at a J4J carrier).

As far as adjusted LOS, if someone junior to you was given LOS credit for MDA, and you did not go, you were brought up to there LOS to preserve relative position on the seniority list.

When the pilots on the APL were offered a position at MDA it was stated that MDA would operate on its 'own certificate' (originally planned as the old Potomac certif.) and would operate separate from US Air mainline. That is how it was 'sold' to the APL pilots; turned out they could not use the old Potomac certificate, and the decision was made to put the E-170s on the US Air certificate. Had the APL pilots been told, right from the start that it was actually a 'recall to mainline' and they would accure mainline longevity, I believe many would have decided differently. You think???

How many APL pilots out there were told that if they went to MDA that they would be operating on US Airways 'mainline.' Let hear it??

Plain and simple, the company and ALPA screwed that up royally!!!

 

[PlaneDrvr]

No. LOS and longevity are two different things. You will NEVER be junior to a CEL pilot. LOS is a term being used for integrating the combined list. Even if a CEL has more LOS, you will be senior to him and have more longevity, unless they get recalled and you pass and they build up more longevity credit than you before you come back. And even if that happens, you will still be senior to them.

So how long did you fly for MDA?? (years of service)

And, if you are recalled to US Airways, at what longevity rate (years of service) would your pay be?? Would you be on 'first year pay'??

Just wondering, since you seem to have to total understand of things??

 

[Crzipilot]

Something many of us would like to hear and see concrete proof of. These guys on the bottom, if the 190 gets down to them, do they start at 1st year pay, or does the MDA longevity start too. Many of us were frozen and not ALLOWED to goto MDA, missing on the stock distribution etc.... and it's still to be seen if MDA time will be used for Mainline Longevity for pay....

Isn't that part of what your lawsuit against ALPA and the company is?

 

[FR8mastr]

How many APL pilots out there were told that if they went to MDA that they would be operating on US Airways 'mainline.' Let hear it??

Plain and simple, the company and ALPA screwed that up royally!!!

I can only guess, but I would bet not that many. The reason is, look how many are choosing not to go back now, the pay and work rules at the division were much worse than Airways.

Yes ALPA and the company definetely screwed the pooch on this one

 

[FR8mastr]

Something many of us would like to hear and see concrete proof of. These guys on the bottom, if the 190 gets down to them, do they start at 1st year pay, or does the MDA longevity start too. Many of us were frozen and not ALLOWED to goto MDA, missing on the stock distribution etc.... and it's still to be seen if MDA time will be used for Mainline Longevity for pay....

Isn't that part of what your lawsuit against ALPA and the company is?

It will be 1st. year pay for the very reasons you stated

 

[ALGFLYR]

Had the APL pilots been told, right from the start that it was actually a 'recall to mainline' and they would accure mainline longevity, I believe many would have decided differently. You think???

Plain and simple, the company and ALPA screwed that up royally!!!

They were not told they would accrue longevity, because they did NOT.

ALPA screwed up? I can't believe that...

 

[ALGFLYR]

So how long did you fly for MDA?? (years of service)

And, if you are recalled to US Airways, at what longevity rate (years of service) would your pay be?? Would you be on 'first year pay'??

Just wondering, since you seem to have to total understand of things??

My years of service with MDA? 2

When recalled I will be on 1st year pay. No longevity credit for MDA...

 

[Turtle21]

Interesting. I think they're really worried that they'll need to hire from outside for the 190 very soon.

Worried? Why? If I were mngmnt I would be excited to hire as many people off the street as I could. I would get a new batch of wide eyed suckers willing to fly for crap wages.

 

[Turtle21]

I'm confused,

I was laid off and got a better paying job than MDA, so my longevity is about 2 1/2 years. Some CEL guys may have more LOS than me. Are they expecting to be recalled senior to me, or at a higher payscale. Did I get the shaft because I found a better job?

Confusing.

No you (we) got the shaft because ALPA, and especially USAir ALPA, eats its own.

 

[Doug Parker]

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APL, MDA, CEL, J4J, LOS.............I'm confused !!!

What a FusterCluck !!!



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