Why would a RJ Capt. leave for CAL, DAL, UAL, UAW, or NW?

[flyguy81]

pay sucks, but i'm 26 and can't wait to get the heck out of regional land and fly something big. If I got hired in 2-4 years from now....I'll still have 30 years left (35 w/age 65). Lots and lots and lots of time left to make more than what I'll make as a RJ Capt.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

For those of us who got caught at a regional in our early thirties when 9/11 happened and who are now around forty - it is hard to justify a move that will require 7 to 12 years to break even on.

Once you get to a point where you done your "Golden Handcuffs" it is very difficult to go back to making 30G's a year after making 80-90G's a year. I understand the reasoning of both the older generation and younger generation and you are both right. Things will probably improve in the next few years and for somebody who is in his early 30's and single (Or your wife has supporting income) It makes sence to go to the majors. Now for somebody in his mid 40's (My case) It just doesn't make any sence to do that because by the time that I break even in pay is the time my oldest will be going to college and by that time 80 to 90 G's a year won't do anymore.
When you are in your 40's there is only so many years left to secure your retirement and what is it that you are going to do after the final flight. Yes, you do investments and you make a side business but if life trapped you at your mid 40's at the point to make that descision, choose for the higher income for as long as you can.
Contract work outside of the US industry is an option for the older generation

 

[Caveman]

Once you get to a point where you done your "Golden Handcuffs" it is very difficult to go back to making 30G's a year after making 80-90G's a year. I understand the reasoning of both the older generation and younger generation and you are both right. Things will probably improve in the next few years and for somebody who is in his early 30's and single (Or your wife has supporting income) It makes sence to go to the majors. Now for somebody in his mid 40's (My case) It just doesn't make any sence to do that because by the time that I break even in pay is the time my oldest will be going to college and by that time 80 to 90 G's a year won't do anymore.
When you are in your 40's there is only so many years left to secure your retirement and what is it that you are going to do after the final flight. Yes, you do investments and you make a side business but if life trapped you at your mid 40's at the point to make that descision, choose for the higher income for as long as you can.
Contract work outside of the US industry is an option for the older generation

I generally agree but there are exceptions. I made the jump at 47 and for me it was the right call. YMMV.

 

[PapaSiera]

We are talking atleast 7-8 years to break even guys. if you do the math you will see that at Continental it would take about 7 yrs on the 737 compared to XJT. Don't just look at the hourly rate, look year by year of your earnings vs. CAL if you would have stayed. For you to totally break even on the deal it will take 7 yrs.

 

[mach zero]

Im not talking about 1st year pay guys....I understand that. Im talking about lousy 5th, 6th, 7th year pay at place like United at a 65 hr guarentee. Take a look for yourself. http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/united.html

A 10 year 737 FO makes $70,000...SICK
A 10 year 737 FO at WN makes $120,000 atleast. THAT DOUBLE!!

And yes....you will be a 10 year FO at United. Probably a 15 yr FO.

If you are a 10 year F/O at WN, you are holding Lance CA (even in the senior bases). Most of the Lance CA's I fly with try to drop their F/O stuff and fly as CA as much as possible. They make far more than $122K doing this. Upgrades are running 6 years or so right now. Anyone who is sitting F/O at 10 years is doing so by choice.

 

[PapaSiera]

If you are a 10 year F/O at WN, you are holding Lance CA (even in the senior bases). Most of the Lance CA's I fly with try to drop their F/O stuff and fly as CA as much as possible. They make far more than $122K doing this. Upgrades are running 6 years or so right now. Anyone who is sitting F/O at 10 years is doing so by choice.

I was just making a comparison, im not suggesting WN has 10 year FO's.
United does though!!!

 

[PapaSiera]

Can some of the legacy drivers chime in and tell us if you get over 65 hours of credit per month. Are lines only built to 65-70hrs?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

WHAT WAS I THINKING LEAVING PINNACLE FOR DELTA??? I'm such a freaking idiot... I can't believe I thought getting awarded the 767 6 months after getting hired was a good idea....





By the way- guarantee means jack. Average line values are around 73-82 hours around these parts. Premium pay pick ups on reserve dont take away your days off and go on top of your guarantee pay, no matter how little you flew that month.

 

[AutoBus]

Trust me, I am having this conversation with myself. I am at XJT, made almost 80K this year and have 3 hard weeks of vacation (which is really 6 the way our contract works). There are also over 2000 pilots at this company jr to me. If I went to CAL, it would take FOUR YEARS (on the 73) to get to my current pay and with no medical insurance for 6 months.

It is crazy when you think about it. How far have we fallen as a group!? All that being said, I started this career with a goal in mind and it was not to fly the F-ing E-145 my whole life so I will continue to look for new opportunites. I will however not leave for certain low cost cariers and other 2nd tier freight types.

Who knows??

Remember your company is a mere sub-contractor. You may have had a good run. but the future is not in small jets. Why did CO ax flying for what is it? 69 of your small jets? Cost! Your independent operation doesn't stand a chance (can you say Indy Air?)

I too had a great run at a regional, very senior, check airmen, etc, took a pay cut to leave, etc. That was 9 years ago, never regreted it, very happy I left. A code share change later, my former company is a mere shell of what it was, my timing was prefect!

Bottom Line, regionals are places to get time and move on, don't get trapped by your paycheck. Majors are not the most stable companies in world, but traditionally regionals are even less stable.

 

[Bako Cap]

pay sucks, but i'm 26 and can't wait to get the heck out of regional land and fly something big. If I got hired in 2-4 years from now....I'll still have 30 years left (35 w/age 65). Lots and lots and lots of time left to make more than what I'll make as a RJ Capt.

You're absolutely correct. I thought the same thing, but then 19 nutbags changed aviation forever on 9-11 and I wasn't going to wait for the industry to rebound and continue on it's way for me to continue my life.

Good luck and always prepare to be where you are for the long haul because you just never know.

 

[Nightrain_080]

So I was doing some looking around on airlinepilot central, and I just can't believe those FO payscales. What makes it worse is the fact that they have lower guarentees than regionals have. DAL has a 65 hr guarentee, Continental has a 72 hr guarentee, AA has a 64. Then you look at those payrates and you are making less than an RJ captain for a long long time. Since the upgrades seem to look like atleast 10 yrs (except CAL) why is it that everyone is jumping at the majors. The FO pay is AWFUL. At United, a 2nd year FO will make $42,000. a 5th yr FO will make $65,000. In contrast lets say your a 5 year Captain at ExpressJet. You will bring home $75,000 easy. I would say most people at XJT get between 85 and 90 hrs of credit a month. So I guess XJT guys make more than Legacy drivers. That makes SICK. I don't know how ya'll do it. PLEASE tell me that you atleast get more than 65 HOURS a month of credit. Otherwise I guess the LCC's are not that bad of an option. Atleast you get more than 65 hrs of pay. And you can upgrade in 2-3 yrs. Maybe I am missing something here, but how can you be in this industry for as many yrs as it takes to get to a Major, but make less than you did flying your regional jet.

My rant is over.

PS-(I DID NOT PROOF READ THIS SO THERE MAY BE SPELLING ERRORS)

Look again Troll. You need to retake Math 101

 

[xrated]

If you fly BIG airplanes, you get all the Hot Chicks!!! If you fly little bitty airplanes, you get ugly fat chicks, hence, little airplane pilots have very low self esteem!

At least thats my take on the topic.....for what it's worth.

 

[PapaSiera]

Look again Troll. You need to retake Math 101

Oh really? Lets take a closer look then...

United 2nd year pay- $50
$50 X 65 X 12=$39,000

United 5th year pay- $78
$78 X 65 X 12=$60,840

ExpressJet 2nd year pay- $62 if you upgrade which you prob will now.
$62 X 85 X 12= $63,240

ExpressJet 5th year pay- $68
$68 X 85 X 12= $69,360

85 hours is conservative for us. Most people credit between 85-100 hrs a month.

Just for giggles lets look at 12th year pay....

United 12th year pay- $90
$90 X 65 X 12= $70,200

ExpressJet 12th year pay- $82
$82 X 85 X 12= $83,640

All United figures are for 737/A320 FO You may move to other airframs as FO, but I am just keeping it simple. It WILL take you 12 YEARS to upgrade at United.

Now what Nightrain?? Do I still need Math 101?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

AA reserve G is 73 hours.

Most lines have around 76-78. With trip trades or answering the phone, lineholders can get 83 hours pretty easily.

As mentioned, "to each his own" is the answer to your question.

 

[ualdriver]

Oh really? Lets take a closer look then...

United 2nd year pay- $50
$50 X 65 X 12=$39,000

United 5th year pay- $78
$78 X 65 X 12=$60,840

ExpressJet 2nd year pay- $62 if you upgrade which you prob will now.
$62 X 85 X 12= $63,240

ExpressJet 5th year pay- $68
$68 X 85 X 12= $69,360

85 hours is conservative for us. Most people credit between 85-100 hrs a month.

Just for giggles lets look at 12th year pay....

United 12th year pay- $90
$90 X 65 X 12= $70,200

ExpressJet 12th year pay- $82
$82 X 85 X 12= $83,640

All United figures are for 737/A320 FO You may move to other airframs as FO, but I am just keeping it simple. It WILL take you 12 YEARS to upgrade at United.

Now what Nightrain?? Do I still need Math 101?

1. I don't know where you're getting the 12 year upgrade idea at UAL. I don't have the seniority list in front of me, but currently it's much less than that for 737 Capts. I'm a 12 year guy and I'm almost half way up the 737 Capt list at UAL.

2. You're comparing 65 hours of pay at UAL vs. 85 hours at Expressjet. Very few people fly 65 hour schedules at UAL. In fact, our lines are built to the low and mid 90's quite commonly.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Easy answer, you are right. Stay there. It's better.

 

[samballs]

So I was doing some looking around on airlinepilot central, and I just can't believe those FO payscales. What makes it worse is the fact that they have lower guarentees than regionals have. DAL has a 65 hr guarentee, Continental has a 72 hr guarentee, AA has a 64. Then you look at those payrates and you are making less than an RJ captain for a long long time. Since the upgrades seem to look like atleast 10 yrs (except CAL) why is it that everyone is jumping at the majors. The FO pay is AWFUL. At United, a 2nd year FO will make $42,000. a 5th yr FO will make $65,000. In contrast lets say your a 5 year Captain at ExpressJet. You will bring home $75,000 easy. I would say most people at XJT get between 85 and 90 hrs of credit a month. So I guess XJT guys make more than Legacy drivers. That makes SICK. I don't know how ya'll do it. PLEASE tell me that you atleast get more than 65 HOURS a month of credit. Otherwise I guess the LCC's are not that bad of an option. Atleast you get more than 65 hrs of pay. And you can upgrade in 2-3 yrs. Maybe I am missing something here, but how can you be in this industry for as many yrs as it takes to get to a Major, but make less than you did flying your regional jet.

My rant is over.

PS-(I DID NOT PROOF READ THIS SO THERE MAY BE SPELLING ERRORS)

I like lifers that think regionals are good jobs

 

[SoCentralRain]

Stay where you are! Plus, I hear that Embraer seat is really comfy. Enjoy that. You'll be sitting in it for a long time. Preparation H is in the salves/ointments aisle.

SCR

 

[FDJ2]

85 hours is conservative for us. Most people credit between 85-100 hrs a month.

It seems to me, that in order to make a fair comparison you need to consider what the average line value is at CAL, DAL, NWA, AA etc., not just the minimum guarantee.

Do most pilots fly minimum guarantee at your airline? I don't think so and I know they don't at mine either. But if all you're looking for is validation of your career decision to stay at your commuter, consider yourself validated if it makes you happy.

 

[catIIIc]

Can some of the legacy drivers chime in and tell us if you get over 65 hours of credit per month. Are lines only built to 65-70hrs?

Hell no at CAL we are flying 85-90 hours a month, I believe the Airbus and Guppy guys are also at UAL.