Teamsters vs ALPA

[ToiletDuck]

I know what ALPA has contributed to the regionals but was wondering what the reputation of the Teamsters is. Are they considered a good thing? Do people feel they are better or worse than ALPA? I was recently hired at RAH and they are teamsters so just wondering what differences I'd see.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The staffers drive the organization. Another prbplem is the IBT represents so many different types of labor. Which isn't really bad, but when you go discuss pilot issues the truck drivers look at you like you a princess complianing her throne cushion is too soft.

The netjet guys had to create thier own local......

 

[~~~^~~~]

Teamsters supported GoJets management in defeating ALPA's single carrier petition filed on behalf of Trans States. Any "union" that sides with management to support alter ego replacement job transfers should not exist IMHO.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Any "union" that sides with management to support alter ego replacement job transfers should not exist IMHO.

Fins, that would include ALPA would it not? After all, GoJets is a direct result of USAirways miguided scope language and the law of unintended consequences.

 

[N2264J]

Any "union" that sides with management to support alter ego replacement job transfers should not exist IMHO.

You would be talkin' bout Teamsters and ALPA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You would be talkin' bout Teamsters and ALPA?

Thats funny, we were thinking the same thing at the same time.....

 

[N2264J]

Looks like you won that volley

Fair and square

But don't get careless, Merchant!

I'm everywhere.

 

[PCL_128]

Fins, that would include ALPA would it not? After all, GoJets is a direct result of USAirways miguided scope language and the law of unintended consequences.

GoJet is not the result of the USAir scope language. AAA's scope is only the excuse that was used to screw over a unionized pilot group and transfer their jobs. If the AAA scope didn't exist, then Hulas would have found a different excuse. You can try to blame ALPA for all of your problems, John, but it just doesn't hold water.

 

[PCL_128]

Thats funny, we were thinking the same thing at the same time.....

Yeah, two RJDC drones thinking alike. Didn't see that coming.

 

[N2264J]

GoJet is not the result of the USAir scope language. AAA's scope is only the excuse that was used to screw over a unionized pilot group and transfer their jobs. If the AAA scope didn't exist, then Hulas would have found a different excuse.

You're making Fins' argument for him.

GoJet is not the result of the USAir scope language...If the AAA scope didn't exist, then Hulas would have found a different excuse.

It amazes me how you can hold two diametrically opposed opinions in the same paragraph. An annoying characteristic of ALPA leadership.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fact was ALPA tried to do the right thing at GoJets.

Teamsters shot them down.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins, that would include ALPA would it not? After all, GoJets is a direct result of USAirways miguided scope language and the law of unintended consequences.

Yes - although I think the consequences of mainline scope changes were intentional, as is documented by the "bargaining credits" recieved for flying being performed by another work group.

We agree. But given the choice of Teamsters and ALPA, Teamsters was more blatant in their self interest.

 

[N2264J]

Teamsters supported GoJets management in defeating ALPA's single carrier petition filed on behalf of Trans States.

Maybe I need some guidance here so let's rewind.

Are you talking about single carrier as in who represents Trans States and GoJet or was ALPA actually trying to combine the lists?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yes.

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

The part of this that really sucks (can't think of a better word) is that now mainline scope clauses can be used as a valid reason to deny single carrier petitions, which was a good tool for unions to use in stopping alter ego.

Candidly, the value of union representation is diminished to nearly nothing in the world of unrestricted alter ego competition. But I still prefer ALPA to Teamsters. ALPA trashing my end of the profession was done in a terribly wrongheaded effort to save the pre-deregulation style mainline contracts. ALPA completely failed, but at least they had some method to their madness. Teamsters on the other hand worked to subvert one of the few tools remaining to fight alter ego only so they could sign up GoJets. In balance Teamsters really did something unforgiveable.

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm everywhere.

Including under Dan's desk! :blush: :blush: :laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[DX Rick]

The netjet guys had to create thier own local......

And NetJEts has a pretty sweet pay scale right now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And NetJEts has a pretty sweet pay scale right now.

Yup...its all about leadership....both the officers and the members..

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yup...its all about leadership....both the officers and the members..

So it's not so much ALPA, rather it is the local leadership and the membership. NetJets, Horizon, UPS and SWA are the "crown jewels" right now. Not a single one is ALPA. In fact, American has done better than most of it's peers, again not ALPA.

Meanwhile, on the ALPA regional front, some very strong local leaderships have suffered tremendous losses. ALG, PDT, ACA, CMR, and MSA had very strong local groups. Without some "brand scope" protections, even the strongest local leadership and pilot group will be left hanging in the wind.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The staffers drive the organization. Another prbplem is the IBT represents so many different types of labor. Which isn't really bad, but when you go discuss pilot issues the truck drivers look at you like you a princess complianing her throne cushion is too soft.

The netjet guys had to create thier own local......

On the otherside of the coin, when a teamster pilot group stikes, those same truck drivers stop making deliveries.... they don't cross picket lines PERIOD! ALPA groups will pick up stiking carriers passengers and aircraft as long is it doesn't meet some narrow definition of "stuck work" (ie CMR strike).

 

[JoeMerchant]

GoJet is not the result of the USAir scope language. AAA's scope is only the excuse that was used to screw over a unionized pilot group and transfer their jobs. If the AAA scope didn't exist, then Hulas would have found a different excuse. You can try to blame ALPA for all of your problems, John, but it just doesn't hold water.

The GoJet certificate had to be formed to allow TSA to fly 70-90 seaters for America West. Yes Hulas then used it to screw over the TSA pilots, however the certificate, like Freedom, was initially created to circumvent bad mainline scope language.