A380 Lands at KLAX

[Occam's Razor]

Explain how the principles of flying a large (heavy) aircraft vs. a small (light) aircraft are different.

Enlighten us!

The principles are exactly the same...all the time. That's why every landing is exactly the same. It's all principle, see? In fact, all you have to do is talk about it until you understand the principle. The sight picture, residual thrust, ground effect, and airfoil characteristics have no bearing on the ease or difficulty of landing an airplane. It's just principle.

 

[The_Russian]

The principles are exactly the same...all the time. That's why every landing is exactly the same. It's all principle, see? In fact, all you have to do is talk about it until you understand the principle. The sight picture, residual thrust, ground effect, and airfoil characteristics have no bearing on the ease or difficulty of landing an airplane. It's just principle.

Isn't that basically what I said? Then you said "Keep telling yourself that".

Or, was that really the advice you are trying to give because you knew what I said was true.

Please clarify.

 

[Scrapdog]

You would know if you had flown it. And BTW, who cares if you have flown fighters?

What do you think? Are you better than the rest? You think just because you got assigned fighters that you are a better stick than someone else?

Seriously.

Whoa little tool - you are seriously mistaken.

One, I don't think I'm better than anyone. I enjoy flying with both military and civilian guys in my airline job. Both have unique qualities they bring to the table. I have learned some great tips from some outstanding captains I've flown with that are straight civilian.

Two, you seriously don't have a clue about how the military process of getting your aircraft works do you? You don't get "assigned" fighters out of pilot training, you bust your a$$ and study hard to EARN your aircraft (whether it be fighters, heavies, choppers, etc...). I dreamed of flying fighters and got them, I was not assigned it in the least.

Three, you are correct...I don't think flying a Brasilia is hard. Please enlighten us on why it is so extremely hard to fly. Since you have the balls to make a fool of yourself and critique senior airline guys on how their landing is in the A380, please tell us what makes the Brasilia so complex to fly. We're all ears...

I bet you've got a "Brasilia Driver" sticker on your flight bag don't you? What a buffoon.

 

[The_Russian]

Whoa little tool - you are seriously mistaken.

And you aren't?

One, I don't think I'm better than anyone. I enjoy flying with both military and civilian guys in my airline job. Both have unique qualities they bring to the table. I have learned some great tips from some outstanding captains I've flown with that are straight civilian.

Good. I am glad you recognize that.

Two, you seriously don't have a clue about how the military process of getting your aircraft works do you? You don't get "assigned" fighters out of pilot training, you bust your a$$ and study hard to EARN your aircraft (whether it be fighters, heavies, choppers, etc...). I dreamed of flying fighters and got them, I was not assigned it in the least.

Good for you. Just don't rub it in anyone's face. Some of us serve our country in other ways. We may not fly fighters, but we serve. Those of us who were rejected by the military for something stupid, such as being shade-blind, really don't like it when you say things like you did.

Three, you are correct...I don't think flying a Brasilia is hard. Please enlighten us on why it is so extremely hard to fly. Since you have the balls to make a fool of yourself and critique senior airline guys on how their landing is in the A380, please tell us what makes the Brasilia so complex to fly. We're all ears...

I do not believe it is a "hard" aircraft to fly. However, the idiosyncracies of the aircraft are impossible to master. It is a fast turboprop, and has killed many who have let it get the best of them. Some of that could be contributed to poor design, though.

I bet you've got a "Brasilia Driver" sticker on your flight bag don't you? What a buffoon.

Sure I do. Just like you've got "Big-Bad Fighter Pilot" written all over your forehead right now.

 

[Scrapdog]

Good. I am glad you recognize that.

Good for you. Just don't rub it in anyone's face. Some of us serve our country in other ways. We may not fly fighters, but we serve. Those of us who were rejected by the military for something stupid, such as being shade-blind, really don't like it when you say things like you did.

I do not believe it is a "hard" aircraft to fly. However, the idiosyncracies of the aircraft are impossible to master. It is a fast turboprop, and has killed many who have let it get the best of them. Some of that could be contributed to poor design, though.

Sure I do. Just like you've got "Big-Bad Fighter Pilot" written all over your forehead right now.

Russian - bickering with you is like bickering with my little niece. I won't continue it and bore the rest of flight info, but I do need to defend myself slightly here.

What did I say that "hurt" you huh? What did you not like? The fact that you were acting like a tool when you were criticizing those guys and have no clue or footing to stand on when doing it? I think that was a pretty fair assessment. Not once did I criticize for not flying in the military. So if you were "hurt" by that, you must be dreaming that up.

If you were "hurt" by that - then I was "hurt" when you said I was "assigned" my fighter. Deal? Now we're even - we can both be cry babies together.

Big Bad Fighter Pilot on my forehead? Give me a break...re-read my prior post. I said up front I didn't think I was better than anyone else and that both mil and civ guys bring unique things to the table. Either you fail to recognize that or you need to get your eyes re-examined.

 

[Denizen]

How can the brasilla get away from some one? I thought the principles were all the same? Just like the 172 or the A-380

 

[The_Russian]

Russian - bickering with you is like bickering with my little niece. I won't continue it and bore the rest of flight info, but I do need to defend myself slightly here.

Then why did you insist on picking this fight? I am just defending myself too.

What did I say that "hurt" you huh? What did you not like? The fact that you were acting like a tool when you were criticizing those guys and have no clue or footing to stand on when doing it? I think that was a pretty fair assessment. Not once did I criticize for not flying in the military. So if you were "hurt" by that, you must be dreaming that up.

I never stated that you "hurt" me. I said:

Good for you. Just don't rub it in anyone's face.

This is in fact what you were doing when you said:

And obviously you have never flown a fighter

Right? And, who says I don't have a leg to stand on when poking fun at their landing? We both fly airplanes don't we? And, we have all determined that the principles are the same. Yes? If you do not think I have a right to judge, what makes you think that you do?

Now, you have to remember that fighters are limited to the military. Unless of course, you are wealthy. So, you should assume that not everyone has that oppurtunity.

If you were "hurt" by that - then I was "hurt" when you said I was "assigned" my fighter. Deal? Now we're even - we can both be cry babies together.

Can we cry if we want to? :bawling:

Big Bad Fighter Pilot on my forehead? Give me a break...re-read my prior post. I said up front I didn't think I was better than anyone else and that both mil and civ guys bring unique things to the table. Either you fail to recognize that or you need to get your eyes re-examined.

So then don't say that I am puffing my chest out concerning the flight characteristics of the Brasilia by having a sticker on my flight case.

There. We are even.

 

[The_Russian]

How can the brasilla get away from some one? I thought the principles were all the same? Just like the 172 or the A-380

Yes. Well, unless the prop gets ya'.

 

[Scrapdog]

Then why did you insist on picking this fight? I am just defending myself too.

I never stated that you "hurt" me. I said:

Good for you. Just don't rub it in anyone's face.

This is in fact what you were doing when you said:


Right? And, who says I don't have a leg to stand on when poking fun at their landing? We both fly airplanes don't we? And, we have all determined that the principles are the same. Yes? If you do not think I have a right to judge, what makes you think that you do?

Now, you have to remember that fighters are limited to the military. Unless of course, you are wealthy. So, you should assume that not everyone has that oppurtunity.

Can we cry if we want to? :bawling:
So then don't say that I am puffing my chest out concerning the flight characteristics of the Brasilia by having a sticker on my flight case. There, we are even.

Russian, I gotta give it to you...you love a debate. You were either on your high school debate team, or you're a chick. Or maybe both! Enjoy your brasilia...best of luck.

 

[Denizen]

Yes. Well, unless the prop gets ya'.

You mean airplanes are different? A 172 has a prop on it, it should fly just like your brasilla, shouldn't it? Maybe it is because you have two props, does that make it different? Since, like you said the principals are all the same...I just can't see how flying the brasillia is any different. It should have the same handling characteristics of any other prop airplane. J-3 to DC-4 and up right?
I mean after all, they are all the same in principle...

 

[The_Russian]

Russian, I gotta give it to you...you love a debate. You were either on your high school debate team, or you're a chick. Or maybe both! Enjoy your brasilia...best of luck.

Take care. No hard feeling, huh? :beer:

 

[The_Russian]

Here we go again.....................


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[The_Russian]

You mean airplanes are different? A 172 has a prop on it, it should fly just like your brasilla, shouldn't it? Maybe it is because you have two props, does that make it different? Since, like you said the principals are all the same...I just can't see how flying the brasillia is any different. It should have the same handling characteristics of any other prop airplane. J-3 to DC-4 and up right?
I mean after all, they are all the same in principle...

Idiosyncracies of an individual aircraft vs. principles of flight are two different things.

A comparison was made between the E120 and the A380 on which is harder to fly. There is no doubt in in my mind that the fly-by-wire, fully-automated, and jet powered A380 is an easier aircraft to fly than any Turboprop. Especially one that has a rash for killing those who doubt it's potential bite.

 

[Denizen]

They all fly the same. Same principles, weight does not matter. You should know that.

You are right they don't all fly the same. I must have misread your post.

 

[The_Russian]

You are right they don't all fly the same. I must have misread your post.

You are as dense as Roman concrete.

 

[The_Russian]

Idiosyncracies of an individual aircraft vs. principles of flight are two different things.

A comparison was made between the E120 and the A380 on which is harder to fly. There is no doubt in in my mind that the fly-by-wire, fully-automated, and jet powered A380 is an easier aircraft to fly than any Turboprop. Especially one that has a rash for killing those who doubt it's potential bite.

Again.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I just can't see how flying the brasillia is any different. It should have the same handling characteristics of any other prop airplane. J-3 to DC-4 and up right?
I mean after all, they are all the same in principle...

Yes, in the same way a P51 in full tilt boogie power at slow speed is like a C172 on a go around. The E120 is a torque monster. A normal reduced Tq takeoff requires more rudder input than any other aircraft I've flown on a V1 cut. Or in other words, same engines as a ATR, 1/3 the moment arm on the flight control surfaces. There is a crash on record from the crew simply going from flight idle to go around Tq and the airplane torque rolled on them.

The 380 landing was funny. When uninformed members of the press go "UUUGhhhh" when they see your landings it isn't good. Kinda typical of factory test pilots. They probably get fewer legs in six months than your average regional pilot gets in a four day trip.

It happens to all of us - we laugh because it happened to them on national TV. Had and EEC go nuts on the E120 one morning about 02:30 on the ATL..GTR..AEX CDO and the thing went through about a 30 degree heading change before I got the seat cushion pulled back out of my butt - I'm sure I looked pretty funny too.

 

[The_Russian]

The 380 landing was funny. When uninformed members of the press go "UUUGhhhh" when they see your landings it isn't good. Kinda typical of factory test pilots. They probably get fewer legs in six months than your average regional pilot gets in a four day trip.

True.

It happens to all of us - we laugh because it happened to them on national TV. Had and EEC go nuts on the E120 one morning about 02:30 on the ATL..GTR..AEX CDO and the thing went through about a 30 degree heading change before I got the seat cushion pulled back out of my butt - I'm sure I looked pretty funny too.

Fail-Fixed or just plain nuts? :nuts:

 

[Dumb Pilot]

For the love of the all mighty, GET A LIFE

 

[Metro752]

I missed this thread.

 

[Metro752]

I'm really close to 3 posts a day and 3000 posts. Im a loser.

 

[ag2pilot]

You are as dense as Roman concrete.

I'm sorry but I just have to know. Doesn't Roman concrete have the same density as American concrete. I realize it would depend on the density of the sand and the aggregate, as well as the cement itself. Also the ratio that they are mixed and the average temp and humidity while it was curing would come into play.... sorry wrong forum.

 

[Going2Baja]

Russian - Here's a short story for you:

During my 6 years/5000 hrs of E-120 time I often wondered why 737's were going around so much. What's the problem when a 120 can go from 250 to 170 and back to 250 in a few short miles all while going down hill on a visual. Heck, if we could see the runway we could land right? Well, I'm here now to tell you that until you've flown a jet on a fast visual - the airplane doesn't come down AND slow down at the same time (except the MD-80 from what I hear.) The 737 for one is squirly down low and slow and I by no means have it figured out after 200 hrs.

Moral of story: I'd keep quiet if I were you until you know what you're talking about. The "Bro" as it's called is one of the easiest a/c I have ever flown. It flies identical to the KA-350 btw - my guess is the T-tail and the props.

I can't imagine how a milion pound a/c would control when empty? From my little large jet experience I can say the heavier the a/c the more stable it is. Maybe there is some insight to the 380's landing here....Who knows?

Just my $0.02.

 

[35khighpjc]

it can go back to europe for all i give a damn, still has not convinced me enough to step foot in a SCAREbus

-Paul

 

[lowtimedriver]

All this from a Brassilia driver Thanks Maverick

FLMAO. Of course all of this from a student pilot flying a 172.

 

[Tomct]

the only thing good from europe are the women!

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[The_Russian]

I'm sorry but I just have to know. Doesn't Roman concrete have the same density as American concrete. I realize it would depend on the density of the sand and the aggregate, as well as the cement itself. Also the ratio that they are mixed and the average temp and humidity while it was curing would come into play.... sorry wrong forum.

It was a shot in the dark. I figured that Roman concrete has been curing for 2300 years while American concrete has been for only 200. *Shrug*

 

[Falconjet]

It was a shot in the dark. I figured that Roman concrete has been curing for 2300 years while American concrete has been for only 200. *Shrug*

As was your comment on the landing by the A380 pilot.

You'd best keep quiet so people don't know how ignorant you are.

FJ

 

[The_Russian]

As was your comment on the landing by the A380 pilot.

You'd best keep quiet so people don't know how ignorant you are.

FJ

What's wrong with bashing the guys sh!tbag landing? It sucked. If I blundered a Worldwide televised landing like that, I would expect you to bash me too! All I said to start this was: "It looks like he misjudged his rudder input". If you guys are getting bent out of shape because of that, then you got problems!

BTW, he did misjudge the rudder input. And he got pretty squirrely too!

You just go ahead and keep judging my "ignorance". It makes you sound really cool and important. *Laugh*

 

[The_Russian]

During my 6 years/5000 hrs of E-120 time I often wondered why 737's were going around so much. What's the problem when a 120 can go from 250 to 170 and back to 250 in a few short miles all while going down hill on a visual. Heck, if we could see the runway we could land right? Well, I'm here now to tell you that until you've flown a jet on a fast visual - the airplane doesn't come down AND slow down at the same time (except the MD-80 from what I hear.) The 737 for one is squirly down low and slow and I by no means have it figured out after 200 hrs.

I have flown a jet on a fast visual. The drag characteristics of an individual type of aircraf thave nothing to do with the conversation.

Moral of story: I'd keep quiet if I were you until you know what you're talking about.

Ok. I'll make sure to do that.

The "Bro" as it's called is one of the easiest a/c I have ever flown. It flies identical to the KA-350 btw - my guess is the T-tail and the props.

The E-120's handling is absolutely nothing like the King Air family with respect to "ease". Unless you are a cyborg, you are way off base. The 120 is an erganomics disaster.

I can't imagine how a milion pound a/c would control when empty? From my little large jet experience I can say the heavier the a/c the more stable it is. Maybe there is some insight to the 380's landing here....Who knows?

That would be true with any size aircraft.

What was your point in this post? Please try to think about what you are saying before you try to "tell me" something. Not all of us represent the idiot crowd on here.

Cya.