what has your union done >>>>>

[country]

First off I want to make it clear that I'm not being a smarta$$ or wanting to start a flame war. I have a question for you folks flying 121. By admission I am ignorant of the 121 world regarding your union and management issues and what you have been putting up with regarding your salaries. I do have friends flying 121 so most of what I here is from them or on this board. I have always been a Corp 91 pilot and have been able with each move increase my salary way over what my friends make flying for the regional. To be blunt the regional pay you guys are getting is absolutely embarrassing...bottom line big time a joke. My question is this: What has your union done to address and fix this problem...frankly why have union representation with these types of slag pay rates. Honestly how much worse can it get, I'd say its hit bottom pathetic for you guys...I hate it. Good folks dedicated to doing a good job at embarrassing wages. Somebody has to step up and help you guys. I'm curious what has the union done to address this problem.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You seem to have an expectation.... is it valid?

 

[country]

You seem to have an expectation.... is it valid?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question.

 

[Wesb737fo]

... My question is this: What has your union done to address and fix this problem...frankly why have union representation with these types of slag pay rates. Honestly how much worse can it get, I'd say its hit bottom pathetic for you guys...I hate it. Good folks dedicated to doing a good job at embarrassing wages. Somebody has to step up and help you guys. I'm curious what has the union done to address this problem.

What can the regional Unions do? Whenever they do stand up for themselves they get whipsawed into another sub-standard contract. I can see it now...

The Mesa pilot union announced that it reached an agreement with management that cuts their pay in half and requires the FO's to clean the lavs. This agreement comes after JO and the management team at Mesa successfully petitioned the FAA to allow trained monkeys to fly their aircraft in revenue service.

Reportedly, test monkeys from an unspecified lab in a foreign country were trained to ATP proficiency and given type ratings on the new 120 seat Canadair Regional Jets. As many as 150 monkeys had passed the test and were slated to be hired into a new all Monkey division of Mesa Airlines called "GO Bananas". Unfortunately negotiations with the Monkey Union hit an impasse when the company refused to provide crew bananas in the contract. A company official said " Hey, bananas are expensive".

When asked for a comment, Captain Peepers the head of AMPA, the Airline Monkey Pilots Association, said "ooohhoooaaaaa!!!eeeeee". He then flung poo at the microphone and ran away.

 

[doh]

What can the regional Unions do? Whenever they do stand up for themselves they get whipsawed into another sub-standard contract. I can see it now...

The Mesa pilot union announced that it reached an agreement with management that cuts their pay in half and requires the FO's to clean the lavs. This agreement comes after JO and the management team at Mesa successfully petitioned the FAA to allow trained monkeys to fly their aircraft in revenue service.

Reportedly, test monkeys from an unspecified lab in a foreign country were trained to ATP proficiency and given type ratings on the new 120 seat Canadair Regional Jets. As many as 150 monkeys had passed the test and were slated to be hired into a new all Monkey division of Mesa Airlines called "GO Bananas". Unfortunately negotiations with the Monkey Union hit an impasse when the company refused to provide crew bananas in the contract. A company official said " Hey, bananas are expensive".

When asked for a comment, Captain Peepers the head of AMPA, the Airline Monkey Pilots Association, said "ooohhoooaaaaa!!!eeeeee". He then flung poo at the microphone and ran away.

You need to find a way to work the GO BANANAS thing into every one of your posts. It is the best thing I have ever read on this or any other aviation forum!

 

[Wesb737fo]

amazing how the mind works at 4am (unable to sleep, getting over a head cold ). Should I start a new thread? I think this sums up pilot/mgt. relations across the entire industry spectrum. By the way, I just got junior assigned for xmas day, serves me right for posting that I guess.

 

[doh]

amazing how the mind works at 4am (unable to sleep, getting over a head cold ). Should I start a new thread? I think this sums up pilot/mgt. relations across the entire industry spectrum. By the way, I just got junior assigned for xmas day, serves me right for posting that I guess.

Serves you right for answering the phone! Don't do it!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I missed the intro.

How did AMPA become the collective bargaining agent for those monkeys?

It looks like the "monkeys" in the example got what they wanted.

What's the issue here?

 

[country]

dang ....mmmm....I just had a Ribwich sandwhich...mmmm...

 

[pilotyip]

In the end financial markets and their interest in financing airline operations determine how much pilots will be paid. If the airlines wage structure allows the airline to sell tickets in a competitive market and be profitable, then the finance markets will allow the airline to have money to purchase equipment and operate. Unions can only define wages within the above limits. Look at what the wages demands did to the majors in the last 5 years.

 

[LogbookSlave]

The Mesa pilot union announced that it reached an agreement with management that cuts their pay in half and requires the FO's to clean the lavs. This agreement comes after JO and the management team at Mesa successfully petitioned the FAA to allow trained monkeys to fly their aircraft in revenue service.

Reportedly, test monkeys from an unspecified lab in a foreign country were trained to ATP proficiency and given type ratings on the new 120 seat Canadair Regional Jets. As many as 150 monkeys had passed the test and were slated to be hired into a new all Monkey division of Mesa Airlines called "GO Bananas". Unfortunately negotiations with the Monkey Union hit an impasse when the company refused to provide crew bananas in the contract. A company official said " Hey, bananas are expensive".

When asked for a comment, Captain Peepers the head of AMPA, the Airline Monkey Pilots Association, said "ooohhoooaaaaa!!!eeeeee". He then flung poo at the microphone and ran away.

That is by far the funniest thing I have ever read on this board!!!

WELL DONE!!

 

[PCL_128]

Look at what the wages demands did to the majors in the last 5 years.

Spoken like a true management stooge. Wage demands had absolutely nothing to do with what has happened over the previous five years. Incredibly poor management is to blame for that.

 

[badlander45]

What can the regional Unions do? Whenever they do stand up for themselves they get whipsawed into another sub-standard contract. I can see it now...

The Mesa pilot union announced that it reached an agreement with management that cuts their pay in half and requires the FO's to clean the lavs. This agreement comes after JO and the management team at Mesa successfully petitioned the FAA to allow trained monkeys to fly their aircraft in revenue service.

Reportedly, test monkeys from an unspecified lab in a foreign country were trained to ATP proficiency and given type ratings on the new 120 seat Canadair Regional Jets. As many as 150 monkeys had passed the test and were slated to be hired into a new all Monkey division of Mesa Airlines called "GO Bananas". Unfortunately negotiations with the Monkey Union hit an impasse when the company refused to provide crew bananas in the contract. A company official said " Hey, bananas are expensive".

When asked for a comment, Captain Peepers the head of AMPA, the Airline Monkey Pilots Association, said "ooohhoooaaaaa!!!eeeeee". He then flung poo at the microphone and ran away.

Without a doubt the funniest goddamn thing ever posted here!

 

[DrewBlows]

Why have Union representation?

If I wouldn't have had ALPA representation, management would have imposed a $10/hour pay cut, to my 2nd year FO wages, a year ago. With the work rules changes that went along with the wage cuts I stood to loose $12 to $15 thousand. I'd say that is well worth my 1.95% union dues. Of course I'll still take a pay cut because my company is in bankruptcy, but ALPA has sucessfully delayed it by at least a year, and when I do take a cut it won't be nearly as severe.

 

[PositionandHold]

Spoken like a true management stooge. Wage demands had absolutely nothing to do with what has happened over the previous five years. Incredibly poor management is to blame for that.

And skyrocketing oil prices.

That one's always left out for some reason. Anyone who thinks airlines went bankrupt just because of pilot salaries has their head in their a**, no offense (if that's possible, but give me a godd*mn f*cking break). To think that UA, AA, and DL hit rock bottom just because their captains could afford a nice house and a comfortable lifestyle is absurd. You want to know why UA went bankrupt? Look at Tilton's $45,000,000 bonus he took out after slashing everyone's pay. That behavior should be indicative of something. It's out of control capitalism and greedy CEO's who don't give a hell for the labor that keeps the money in their pockets. Furthermore, oil quadrupling in price may have had some effect.

How backwards and weak minded does someone have to be to not see that?

 

[pilotyip]

how come the non-union airlines did not go BK?

 

[GogglesPisano]

how come the non-union airlines did not go BK?

... recently.

 

[PCL_128]

how come the non-union airlines did not go BK?

Because they didn't have to abuse the bankruptcy system in an effort to decimate their pilots' contracts.

 

[Shrek]

pilotyip......... are you with USA Jet?

 

[cynic]

I think the answer here is perhaps some legal defense but otherwise nothing, nadda, zip, zilch

They really can't. Subcontractors (thats what regional pilots really are) can't have a union. They are contractors, not employees of the company. One regional doesn't do it cheap enough, fire em and get Mesa.

 

[pilotyip]

USA Jet for sure

For the time being where else is there to be? I am ex ALPA, ex Teamster, both airlines out of business. As Zantop shut down I had dues taken out of my last check. Unions can not make a sink purse out of a pigs ear.

 

[Draginass]

If you think flying for a union airline is bad, try flying for a non-union one.

 

[pilotyip]

Not necessarily, Union airline Zantop L-188 Capt, 3 man crews, 116K MGTOW, 34K payload. $60/hr, 60 hr guarantee, $3600 per month, 8 days off every month. Non union airline, DA-20 Capt 2 man crew 28K MGTOW, 5K payload $71/hr 55 hr guarantee, $3950/mo, 11 day off per month.

 

[DX Rick]

Theres a long trend of management impossing pay cuts on thier employees, then taking multi million dollar bonuses for themselves.

It's not just with the regionals either.

When will the unions stand up to management and point this BS out? Anyone with half a brain knows that pilots taking pay cuts isn't going to save the airline, or allow it to emerge from BK any faster.

It's a stupid game they play, and then all the Union can say is "We had our backs to the wall....."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Theres a long trend of management impossing pay cuts on thier employees, then taking multi million dollar bonuses for themselves.

It's not just with the regionals either.

When will the unions stand up to management and point this BS out? Anyone with half a brain knows that pilots taking pay cuts isn't going to save the airline, or allow it to emerge from BK any faster.

It's a stupid game they play, and then all the Union can say is "We had our backs to the wall....."

Not necessairly,,,

The unions said we saved jobs and avioded more furloughes by playing their stupid game...

Unions do not control hiring and firing... nor do they run companies...

If you want better protections move to France...

 

[pilotyip]

All the pilots that think management is the problem should get together and build an airline. Take the business plan to the financial markets, raise capital and start the airline. Then they could set any pay scale they wanted, hire any management they wanted and sell tickets for whatever price they wanted. Didn't someone write a book about this Animal Farm?

 

[DX Rick]

Not necessairly,,,

The unions said we saved jobs and avioded more furloughes by playing their stupid game...

Unions do not control hiring and firing... nor do they run companies...

If you want better protections move to France...

So then if Unions can't protect your job, or salary. What the hell is the point of one?

It's sad that you have to tell others to move to France if they want better protections. Are you saying that the French have the abilty that YOU and the Unions don't?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All the pilots that think management is the problem should get together and build an airline. Take the business plan to the financial markets, raise capital and start the airline. Then they could set any pay scale they wanted, hire any management they wanted and sell tickets for whatever price they wanted. Didn't someone write a book about this Animal Farm?

Air Line Pilots don't Run Airlines.....

Try booking a flight in Kiwi out of EWR.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So then if Unions can't protect your job, or salary. What the hell is the point of one?

That is like saying if the murder rate isn't 0% what is the point of a police force? Why have one?

The reason we have a police force is so the murderrate isn't 50%....

Same with a union..you have one so there is a line...

It's sad that you have to tell others to move to France if they want better protections. Are you saying that the French have the abilty that YOU and the Unions don't?

I would imagine the French can do some things better than us... when it comes to labor law, workers rights are much better.....

Not sure if you realize it but our beloved America is not friendly to the working man.... especially since 2000.

It is just the way it is.... I don't want to move. I like my country just fine, but I do recognize reality......

 

[CopilotDoug]

Not sure if you realize it but our beloved America is not friendly to the working man.... especially since 2000.quote]

I think we all recognize this point. It also highlights the fact that whoever has the money writes the rules. My question is: Why hasn't ALPA had any big strikes lately to get the attention of management? To me, it seems if you take the ability to strike away from a Union (through whichever bankruptcy laws apply) then you're basically castrating the Union. They can "slow" down the inevitable paycuts and work increases, but isn't a Union supposed to have goals to attain for the workers?