Delta to Downsize ASA Flying

[rausda27]

When do we get the good news?

 

[79%N1]

We don't......................

And P.S. There are NO negotiation dates even set. Pretty hard to get a contract done that way!

 

[rtmcfi]

Don't kid yourself, you're still screwed.
kind of like something that is supposed to be announced in the next 2 weeks.

c'mon spill it..........

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Skywest pilots, let this be a lesson - ALPA is a waist of money.

Skywest pilots let this be lesson number 2: ASA pilots suck at spelling.

 

[amcnd]

It may not be ASA at 80% but SKY + ASA will be 80%. SkyWest has allot of flying in ATl in april.

 

[av8tor4239]

who gives a sh!t, we have 0 zero nilch nada cero nil control over any of it....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well, we could call our Reps and tell them our thoughts. I for one do not want ASA to disappear and would prefer if ASA and SkyWest were one Company.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

For those in the know:

If JA was to merge ASA & SKW yet maintain the seperate certificates ie CHQ/Mesa, how would the union/non-union issue be resolved? Would it be one big vote amoung both groups?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Not sure what you mean. ASA and SkyWest have been merged, just not the flight operations. Find ASA's Chief Financial Officer if you think we are still a functioning corporate entity.

ALPA apparently does not want a merger, although that would be best for the pilot membership. A merger would trigger a representational vote to see who represents the combined group and ALPA apparently is not convinced it would win. So ALPA is watching out for ALPA and not its members. (and in all fairness, ALPA tried to do the right thing at GoJets and lost thanks to Teamsters getting in bed with management. ALPA may think they can't win, so they aren't going to try)

The SkyWest pilots should vote ALPA, for their own benefit. But they are not going to see it that way because ALPA has not been effectively representing the ASA pilots. If ALPA would use scope properly to grow ASA at SkyWest's expense the SkyWest pilots would be clamoring for a seat at the negotiating table. But, ALPA keeps its most effective tools locked away for the exclusive use of mainline members and SkyWest pilots are enjoying the fruits of ALPA's ineffective representation of its own members.

An effective ALPA is a union SkyWest pilots would want to join. As is, SkyWest pilots don't get to see all the good work that our local folks do. So ALPA's merits remain unappreciated....

 

[HelloNewman]

This is simply fantastic news if the flying is in fact reduced. Lets face it if ASA pilots are hell bent on "burning the place down" then it is bad for all skywest pilots. I wouldn't fly struck work but I am in favor of downsizing ASA as much as possible.

 

[JoeMerchant]

For those in the know:

If JA was to merge ASA & SKW yet maintain the seperate certificates ie CHQ/Mesa, how would the union/non-union issue be resolved? Would it be one big vote amoung both groups?

atlcrjdriver,

That depends..... if ASA ALPA negotiates a contract under the RLA that requires a single list and if that agreement is binding on Skywest Inc., then we all join ALPA under a single list. That is what happened at Mesa and CHQ.

If ALPA files a single carrier petition, and it is granted, then there will be an election to determine who the bargaining agent will be for the "single carrier". That is what happened at EGL. ALPA is hesitant to do this because they may lose the ASA pilots in addition to the Skywest pilots.

Keep in mind, ALPA is advising the ASA MEC based on what is best for ALPA... not necessarily what is best for the ASA pilots. We can be sacrificed "for the greater good". IMO, it is imperative that we achieve a single list at Skywest Inc. If you notice, we are not even asking for this. Why is that?

As for the "no pilot left behind" rhetoric, you will notice that at least two groups have already been thrown under the bus - 700 pilots and IOE pilots. Campaign promises sound great - but aren't always achievable. The question that remains is will we ALL be left behind as we are slowly replaced just as CMR, ACA, ALG, and Mesaba were?

The usual suspects will now come out of the woodwork and personally attack me. However after the personal attacks, we will still be in the same situation. Management is holding a gun to the head of ALPA at the regional level, and ALPA loaded the gun and handed it to management. Before everyone jumps me, IT WASN'T THE ASA MEC THAT DID THIS. It was a failure of ALPA, and there was a time when the ASA and CMR MECs understood this. However now both the ASA and CMR MECs have become political and have decided not to rock the boat.

 

[JoeMerchant]

who gives a sh!t, we have 0 zero nilch nada cero nil control over any of it....

Not true. We do have control over it through our elected representatives.

 

[Tarzan]

A single carrier motion will never be granted by the current sitting NMB. Might as well strike that one right. Precedent was set with TSA vs Go Jet.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is simply fantastic news if the flying is in fact reduced. Lets face it if ASA pilots are hell bent on "burning the place down" then it is bad for all skywest pilots. I wouldn't fly struck work but I am in favor of downsizing ASA as much as possible.

HelloNewman,
While much of what you say is technically correct, you are still an A$$ with comments like this. The fact of the matter is, most ASA pilots, much like most SKYW, CMR, and CHQ pilots are just along for the ride. Most don't get involved, most don't understand how any of this works, and most are simply showing up to do a job.

I understand why many Skywest pilots don't want ALPA. If I were a Skywest pilot, I would vote NO on ALPA. That being said, hoping that ASA gets downsized hurts your case for those of us who don't agree with ALPA. There are some of us in the middle now who are tired of BOTH management and ALPA using our lives as pawns in this giant game of whipsaw.

I enjoy my job. I am glad that Skywest bought ASA. I have supported ALPA in the past including holding positions in ALPA. However I am losing my patience with BOTH sides. My job has become a bargaining chip and I don't believe EITHER side gives a d@mn! I am also tired of people like you who seem to enjoy watching us lose this game.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A single carrier motion will never be granted by the current sitting NMB. Might as well strike that one right. Precedent was set with TSA vs Go Jet.

That may be true, but I don't believe ALPA will even file a single carrier petition as it would trigger an election for all of us - and they are afraid they would lose the ASA pilots. I know I would vote for an in house union over ALPA.

 

[~~~^~~~]

atlcrjdriver,

That depends..... if ASA ALPA negotiates a contract under the RLA that requires a single list and if that agreement is binding on Skywest Inc., then we all join ALPA under a single list. That is what happened at Mesa and CHQ.

Joe - I'm embarrassed I did not think of that. With such an obvious answer it makes you wonder why ALPA has not put that on the table. The politics of a single list with ALPA would sure rally the troops everywhere. You would think even National would be for it. Has anyone made this suggestion?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - I'm embarrassed I did not think of that. With such an obvious answer it makes you wonder why ALPA has not put that on the table. The politics of a single list with ALPA would sure rally the troops everywhere. You would think even National would be for it. Has anyone made this suggestion?

Fins,
As you know by now, I am not exactly "in the know" anymore..... the ALPAites don't like those of us who tell the emporer he has no cloths....

That being said, I can't imagine that our MEC and CNC don't know that this was achieved at BOTH CHQ and MESA through section 6 negotiations - both cases did not involve a release from the NMB and both cases involve managements that are "anti-labor". If they achieved it, it is achievable here.

I have been preaching a single list for a long time, but nobody in ALPA is going to listen to me. People like you need to take the torch and run with it.... good luck.... we're all counting on you. (obligatory Airplane movie line)

 

[JoeMerchant]

When SKYW bought ASA we all had high hopes that things would improve because of JA's reputation as a stand-up guy. In fact, he may turn out to be Lorenzo Jr. The guys coming up in this industry who thing all the scab and alter-ego talk is yesterday's news from the 80s and that this is a new era, are gonna get a rude awakening.

Hoping that EITHER JA or ALPA is going to save you is like wishing in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause. That being said, it is time to cut a deal with the entity that does control our fate - that is JA. If we become the next portfolio casualty, all ALPA will do is give us a few lines in the next ALPA rag and get you a subscription to Air Inc. - meanwhile fellow "union brothers and sisters" will replace you. Those of you who are placing your faith in ALPA are about to get the same "rude awakening"......

 

[~~~^~~~]

Posted this elsewhere but in the transition information two nuggets stood out. First, ASA is paying interested employees to go to dispatcher school with their ASA paychecks in exchange for a THREE YEAR committment to the Company. Second, the published materials specifically say that the six LA RJ's are coming to ATL (-2 for the SkyWest MidWest deal) and that ASA's Atl flight operation is going to continue as planned.

Now I'm not saying I count on ASA management, but they usually will not write things down and invest in employees unless they think it will not embarass them and they will get payback out of the employee. I'm grabbing at straws, but hopefully the reports of our death are exaggerated.

 

[Willy21]

This is simply fantastic news if the flying is in fact reduced. Lets face it if ASA pilots are hell bent on "burning the place down" then it is bad for all skywest pilots. I wouldn't fly struck work but I am in favor of downsizing ASA as much as possible.

I think you sir have just showed that you have no class and no tact. I hope you never need any help in your quest to that pie in the sky job you think you will someday have. You can never have enough friends in this career field. For your sake I hope you just like to stir the pot. If not then one day your vision for the flying profession will come out when you don't want it to. At that time you will be rolled over like the piece of trash you are. You are an embarrasment to the SkyWest pilot group and pilots as a whole. Someday I hope, for your sake, you learn to shut your mouth.