Delta to Downsize ASA Flying

[homerjdispatch]

nevermind

 

[sweptback]

The reality is if the SkyWest pilot group were to merge with the ASA pilot group it would accomplish nothing except the huge sacrifice the groups would have to give up to get the language in the contract. Do you think managemnet would give in to it for free?

All SkyWest Inc. would have to do is get another certificate and start another feed airline for United and Delta, and they could probably offer it for lower since there costs would be less.

Not if we got scope like what RAH and MAG have. Any flying by the holding company must be done by pilots on the master seniority list.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not if we got scope like what RAH and MAG have. Any flying by the holding company must be done by pilots on the master seniority list.

That's true - now why aren't we asking for that in our section 1 demands?

 

[CFIT]

Not if we got scope like what RAH and MAG have. Any flying by the holding company must be done by pilots on the master seniority list.

If you want something you have to buy it.
If you want scope protection of this magnitude it would be at the cost of a huge, long term concession.

Are you willing to take a 40% cut for 6 years, that's probably what would be required?

 

[Tomct]

Sadly,

When this whole thing started, many of us who have dealt with JA, and Skywest posted that you guys just didn't understand your adversary. Yet you insisted on numerous demands that just were not going to happen. Because you had all this "leverage". You were going to burn the place down, my MEC speaks for me. etc.

Now a lot of those hardliners have moved on, and the ones that are left are looking at crap.

But you guys have sure showed JA haven't you? Spineless wonders!!

 

[Tomct]

Don't kid yourself, you're still screwed.

Jerry has many reasons to squash ASA ALPA and from my perspective Jerry is kicking but.

The only "leverage" you may have is if (and that a big IF) SkyWest pilots vote in ALPA and then the initial contract would be drug out like ASA's for years.

So if SkyWest pilots vote in ALPA and....
If we can get a contract put together in about 4 to 5 years and....
If we can get the ASA MEC and the SkyWest MEC to colaborate on a joint contract, then....

In about 8 to 10 years we will have it made, we will be one gaint bad a$$ed group of pilots and we will be able to have everything we want.

Right up until management starts a new certificate under SkyWest Inc. and all the flying is transfered there, kind of like something that is supposed to be announced in the next 2 weeks.

Spoken like another Spineless Wonder!! I hope that you are happy where you are....for your career that is....

 

[Tomct]

Skywest pilots, let this be a lesson - ALPA is a waist of money. Things are going down hill fast here.

ASSDriver, YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!uke: You are such a mgmnt lackey. I am sure that you are under BL's desk 24/7!

 

[CFIT]

Tomclit- such an angry little boy.........


It is boy, right?

 

[Tomct]

Tomclit- such an angry little boy.........


It is boy, right?

This coming from little "CFI instructor" in the valley!:laugh: Is that the best you got? Steering away from the real problem...LACK OF SPINE FOR SOME SKYWST PILOTS!

 

[SSDD]

There is intelligent negotiating and then there is wreckless bravado. You have managed to paint yourselves into a corner.

You can't blame anyone but you!

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is intelligent negotiating and then there is wreckless bravado. You have managed to paint yourselves into a corner.

You can't blame anyone but you!

BINGO!..... we have a winner and he isn't even ALPA. Wreckless bravado may feel good, but it seldom achieves anything.....

 

[Tomct]

BINGO!..... we have a winner and he isn't even ALPA. Wreckless bravado may feel good, but it seldom achieves anything.....

Spoken like a TRUE COWARD!!

 

[Tomct]

There is intelligent negotiating and then there is wreckless bravado. You have managed to paint yourselves into a corner.

You can't blame anyone but you!

And WHERE was our "Wreckless Bravado?" Our desires are WELL WITHIN the companies ability to pay. They just don't want to cough up the dough and take it out of their HUGE bonuses. It is called selfishness. We are not asking for a lot...just a little! Most of which would cost them NOTHING! Yeah, that's right...NOTHING! They don't want to be forced to actually have to be...dare I say it...RESPONSIBLE! Ugghhhh....Gaspppp.....perish the thought!

 

[~~~^~~~]

And WHERE was our "Wreckless Bravado?" Our desires are WELL WITHIN the companies ability to pay. They just don't want to cough up the dough....

True. But how do we make them pay?

If you go to the store and there is only one brand you have to buy that brand. If you go to the store and there are 7 generic brands, you probably will not purchase the most expensive.

Yes, management can afford to pay us more, but that is no longer the point. The point is that ALPA has allowed management to choose amongst a variety of brands and management will chose the least expensive high quality generic. You would make the same logical choice if in their shoes. (I buy union and don't shop at WalMart, but I'm the nerdy exception to the rule)

At this time, we have to focus on consolidating the choices available to management. Letters between MEC's supporting each other are nice but have little practical application. We need to bring pilots together in more effective bargaining units and bind airlines to their services.

There might be more solid information out on Thursday, or Friday, on where this is going.

 

[Tarzan]

True. But how do we make them pay?

If you go to the store and there is only one brand you have to buy that brand. If you go to the store and there are 7 generic brands, you probably will not purchase the most expensive.

Yes, management can afford to pay us more, but that is no longer the point. The point is that ALPA has allowed management to chose and management will chose the least expensive high quality generic brand.

There might be more solid information out on Thursday, or Friday, on where this is going.

Fin,
I think you hit the nail on the head with that summary. I don't believe there are many options right now. As long as contract carriers exist, there will be no answer unless some sort of consolidation of the interest occurs. Knowing people and not just pilots, they tend to think in the short term.

 

[VeeOne]

There might be more solid information out on Thursday, or Friday, on where this is going.

More negotiations scheduled for April 4th with the NMB. That means that our earliest release would fall sometime in June after the busy spring break- then another session will be scheduled to set us up for a release sometime in Aug after the busiest of the travel year has passed.

I'm growing impatient and I'm sick of this thing running my life- either park the sucker so I know to find a new job or finish this up.

I do agree with fins though and feel as if we are losing every bit of our bargaining power. Especially with a non union carrier on our toes. I back ALPA, but believe we out to start looking at survival aspects here. I don't even think a strike would help us here- especially with Express Jet on board with an abundance of aircraft that could fill us in

Oh, but they won't fly struck work- What is OUR work anyway??? I've been flying my tail off here for years and I still don't see any dedicated ASA routes....Oh, anything to Monterrey and Macon is ours. Maybe Columbus, GA too.......trying to define OUR flying would be a nightmare.

I do give my CNC an "at-a-boy" though. They've put up with alot and fought hard to this point. But I believe it's time to reassess our possition until Skyworst goes ALPA.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

More negotiations scheduled for April 4th with the NMB. That means that our earliest release would fall sometime in June after the busy spring break- then another session will be scheduled to set us up for a release sometime in Aug after the busiest of the travel year has passed.

Wrong, these aren't negotiation dates, this is a meeting with the NMB. Anything can follow that. Maybe a proffer.

 

[VeeOne]

Wrong, these aren't negotiation dates, this is a meeting with the NMB. Anything can follow that. Maybe a proffer.

Ah, gotcha- perhaps the end is finally in sight. Sorry, didn't catch the difference. Thanks.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I do give my CNC an "at-a-boy" though. They've put up with alot and fought hard to this point. But I believe it's time to reassess our possition until Skyworst goes ALPA.

A hearty "Hear Hear" and a tip of the hat. They have done a great job to this point and I expect our current leadership to even do better.

I believe the best strategy going forward is to put the following items on the table:

1. One List
2. Agreement that anyone who does Company flying be in that list, binding all further Certificates
3. ALPA as the Bargaining Agent for the combined single list

This is hugely broad and a large change. But we don't know the answer until we ask the question. There are a million details to work out, I know. But, if we demand industry standard, why settle for anything less than the industry standard scope that has all Chautauqua pilots performing their flying, or even the standard set by Mesa?

As far as any announcements go - my GUESS is that ASA is about to get scattered all over the system to avoid any effect of a possible strike. Cutting out much of the Atlanta flying will be a first step. Of course, once they figure out how to operate their airline without us, our leverage is further diminished. I would not expect a release until after this plan is executed. Either way our choice appears to be a contract "in the box."

SkyWest's pilot costs are higher than ours, maybe we could negotiate phantom pay rates on United flying, make a back room deal to force them into concessions and boost our pay using a bargaining credit for their loss. It worked for mainline - JUST KIDDING!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

This is simply fantastic news if the flying is in fact reduced. Lets face it if ASA pilots are hell bent on "burning the place down" then it is bad for all skywest pilots. I wouldn't fly struck work but I am in favor of downsizing ASA as much as possible.

HelloNewman-

After sharing your opinion with my children and explaining that if that happened we would not have enough money to buy food, they wanted me to pass along their thoughts...F$CK YOU! (TIC)

 

[HelloNewman]

HelloNewman-

After sharing your opinion with my children and explaining that if that happened we would not have enough money to buy food, they wanted me to pass along their thoughts...F$CK YOU! (TIC)

If you guys go on strike then all the SkyWest AND Delta families eventually won't be able to buy food. Sorry to be blunt but no need to sugar coat anything. An ASA strike may be good for you guys but bad for everyone else. Bad for Delta, SkyWest and any other Delta Connection Carrier. I think it is brilliant that they are taking steps now to minimize the impact of a strike as much as possible. Either way no one wins in a strike. I hope you guys get an agreement soon so everyone can feed their families. Just calling it how I see it that is all. Perhaps this website should be changed to ASAINFO.COM.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Perhaps this website should be changed to ASAINFO.COM.

Would that make you go away, because I'd be all in favor in that case.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Hello-

I was referencing your comment about being "..in favor of downsizing ASA as much as possible." That is a selfish statement and harbors ill will towards your fellow aviators and their families. A simple apology would be the professional thing to say.

 

[rtmcfi]

If you guys go on strike then all the SkyWest AND Delta families eventually won't be able to buy food.

Read your history Einstein, work action and the threat thereof is what has given you a somewhat livable wage. If management had it there way, we would all live in overcrowded crashpads. While strikes are not much fun, neither is living like a serf. Does the phrase about dying on your feet vs. living on your knees ring a bell? ASA management (and I use the term very loosely) would not allow a prolonged strike. Eventually the ASA folks would get a decent contract. Eventually you would receive at least some of their contractual improvements in your "agreement." Just say thanks!

Sorry to be blunt but no need to sugar coat anything. An ASA strike may be good for you guys but bad for everyone else. Bad for Delta, SkyWest and any other Delta Connection Carrier.

Sorry to be blunt but as usual, you are wrong, as well as short-sighted. Short term, yes it would hurt a bit, but like going to the gym, a little pain now, pays off later. As much as the ASA guys would probably love to see you wallow in poverty, these contractual gains would be realized even by parasites such as yourself. Just tell them thanks!

I think it is brilliant that they are taking steps now to minimize the impact of a strike as much as possible.

I would call it prudent, but it takes a little more to be a brilliant move in my book. After seeing the results of other labor actions, if management didn't take steps to minimize the impact they would be seriously derelict in their duties.

I hope you guys get an agreement soon so everyone can feed their families. Just calling it how I see it that is all.

Agreed!

 

[COOPERVANE]

HelloNewman This message is hidden because HelloNewman is on your ignore list.




I am not closed minded. I just get tired of this selfish IDIOT spewing!

You Skywest boys must be real proud of this guy

He is the only member in my ignoramus list.......... Well besides maybe Duh 'Angelo

 

[rtmcfi]

HelloNewman This message is hidden because HelloNewman is on your ignore list.




I am not closed minded. I just get tired of this selfish IDIOT spewing!

He is the only member in my ignoramus list

Sorry for quoting parts of his drivel

 

[Tomct]

Read your history Einstein, work action and the threat thereof is what has given you a somewhat livable wage. If management had it there way, we would all live in overcrowded crashpads. While strikes are not much fun, neither is living like a serf. Does the phrase about dying on your feet vs. living on your knees ring a bell? ASA management (and I use the term very loosely) would not allow a prolonged strike. Eventually the ASA folks would get a decent contract. Eventually you would receive at least some of their contractual improvements in your "agreement." Just say thanks!



Sorry to be blunt but as usual, you are wrong, as well as short-sighted. Short term, yes it would hurt a bit, but like going to the gym, a little pain now, pays off later. As much as the ASA guys would probably love to see you wallow in poverty, these contractual gains would be realized even by parasites such as yourself. Just tell them thanks!



I would call it prudent, but it takes a little more to be a brilliant move in my book. After seeing the results of other labor actions, if management didn't take steps to minimize the impact they would be seriously derelict in their duties.



Agreed!

Thanks for the "Classy" reply. I KNEW there were some good guys over at Skywst. Thanks for your wishes...we are doing our best!

 

[Tomct]

True. But how do we make them pay?

If you go to the store and there is only one brand you have to buy that brand. If you go to the store and there are 7 generic brands, you probably will not purchase the most expensive.

Yes, management can afford to pay us more, but that is no longer the point. The point is that ALPA has allowed management to choose amongst a variety of brands and management will chose the least expensive high quality generic. You would make the same logical choice if in their shoes. (I buy union and don't shop at WalMart, but I'm the nerdy exception to the rule)

At this time, we have to focus on consolidating the choices available to management. Letters between MEC's supporting each other are nice but have little practical application. We need to bring pilots together in more effective bargaining units and bind airlines to their services.

There might be more solid information out on Thursday, or Friday, on where this is going.

Fins, I agree with a lot you have said here...on the FLIP SIDE, the move to close LAX and bring in Ejt is pure proof that it is NOT about money. Those guys over there make 8$ an hour more than I do (at my yearly pay) plus they have trip/duty rig...min day and extensive improvements in their QOL issues. We MUST HOLD THE LINE and get whats RIGHT for us! You know that we are NOT asking for a lot...just what's fair. I feel that this upcoming meeting with the NMB will do a lot for us. The mediator is ON OUR SIDE. He knows that what we are seeking is right in line and that the Union has come down as far as we can. He will be pushing the board to make them give ASA a DEADLINE for final proposals or release us. John Prader has his A-Game and I believe in him. Much different than DW! Time will tell, I am playing the possitive card here and believe that it will work. We'll see!!:angryfire