Pinnacle in trouble!

[doh]

We only get 50% pay for cancellations

Well that helps explain why the attrition is so high!

 

[pilotyip]

I was invited to interview at Pinnacle last month. I am 63 and I never applied. Are they sending invites to everyone with an ATP?

 

[e=mc2]

On the commute home the other day - after waiting 3 hours for a "crew" - heard from the crew they were loosing 45 captains a month. Crew told me they lose more captains then they are able to upgrade. Newhire FO's come in with wet ink on their commerical multi's.

Glad I was on OT!

 

[DoinTime]

On the commute home the other day - after waiting 3 hours for a "crew" - heard from the crew they were loosing 45 captains a month.

Not true. Not even half that.

 

[paid4training]

But the part about needing an ATP is true....

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I just met a new hire FO the other day that had about 400 TT with 20 ME. I don't even think this person will even be able to upgrade for about 3 years. That may create problems down the line if this is a trend.

All you need is a pulse.....and an ATP written.

 

[labbats]

3 years ago no regional would even talk to anyone with less than 3000 hours and 121 experience.

Funny how things work out. Wonder what will come of the majors once all the furloughs are called?

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

They called me at 10 pm on SATURDAY night offering an interview. I told them I would think about it if the pay was a little better for FO's. All I heard was a click of the phone hanging up after that.

 

[Flyer1015]

They called me at 10 pm on SATURDAY night offering an interview. I told them I think about it if the pay was a little better for FO's. All I heard was a click of the phone hanging up after that.

Is this a joke?

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Not a joke at all. I was finger blasting my girlfriend on the couch when they called. I answered the call and told them I was a few months away from making $35 plus as a second yr FO flying the same airplane and told them I would consider if they paid the same and offered a quicker upgrade. I was a little tipsy and all I heard after that was the phone being hung up. I got right back to work on the important stuff.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

3 years ago no regional would even talk to anyone with less than 3000 hours and 121 experience.

Funny how things work out. Wonder what will come of the majors once all the furloughs are called?

They talked to me 3 years ago. I had 1700/300 and no 121. Still a far cry from 300 hours and a pft program...

 

[Fly4hire]

NWA management is predicting at the current rate of attrition 9E may be out of business by the end of this year. Time to call HR and tell them you'll work for no less than $100K, see how desperate they really are.

And their contingency response to keep the feed coming if 9E has a total meltdown is ???? Let me guess - a waiver to get a CRJ type with less than ATP mins? SJS rules!

While you are at it, are they at all concerned over the possible impact of a major accident, which is increasing in probability as they redline the operation with inexperienced crews? They should be.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

And their contingency response to keep the feed coming if 9E has a total meltdown is ???? Let me guess - a waiver to get a CRJ type with less than ATP mins? SJS rules!

While you are at it, are they at all concerned over the possible impact of a major accident, which is increasing in probability as they redline the operation with inexperienced crews? They should be.

Even if there was a plan, you couldn't keep the captains from leaving to a job that will always be better than what they left. The regionals only work when mainline is NOT hiring. I would say the best solution at this point would be to offer a better contract to 9E to curb attrition, that will probably fail. The next logical step will have to be to operate the RJ's at the mainline. Then increase the pay enough where mainline FO's would go to RJ captain. The natural progression of this career is all screwed up. It used to be FO to captain when you got hired at a company, now it's all over the map. I'm amazed we haven't seen more accidents.

With the cost of initial training so high now, I can't imagine anyone could be a pilot without someone else paying for it. I went down to the local FBO this week, a new 172 is renting for just shy of $200 an hr w/instructor.

 

[TinGoose1]

are they at all concerned over the possible impact of a major accident, which is increasing in probability as they redline the operation with inexperienced crews? They should be.

No more than they ever have. Just a matter of time.

 

[Fly4hire]

The next logical step will have to be to operate the RJ's at the mainline. Then increase the pay enough where mainline FO's would go to RJ captain. The natural progression of this career is all screwed up. It used to be FO to captain when you got hired at a company, now it's all over the map.

Interesting you mention that because there is a provision in the new NW contract and LOA that allows them to fly 51-76 seat acft at the mainline, but would have to pay published 77-110 seat rates. Unlikely, but could be done under terms of existing contract.

 

[XJohXJ]

That is interesting, as even post BK, NWA would not have any trouble hiring, whatsoever. The regionals, however, are shoving that knife into the empty mayo jar, trying to scrape the sides. Maybe flying will start shifting back to the mainlines. Now, that would be good news for everyone.

 

[NuGuy]

Even if there was a plan, you couldn't keep the captains from leaving to a job that will always be better than what they left. The regionals only work when mainline is NOT hiring. I would say the best solution at this point would be to offer a better contract to 9E to curb attrition, that will probably fail. The next logical step will have to be to operate the RJ's at the mainline. Then increase the pay enough where mainline FO's would go to RJ captain. The natural progression of this career is all screwed up. It used to be FO to captain when you got hired at a company, now it's all over the map. I'm amazed we haven't seen more accidents.

With the cost of initial training so high now, I can't imagine anyone could be a pilot without someone else paying for it. I went down to the local FBO this week, a new 172 is renting for just shy of $200 an hr w/instructor.

Heyas YPF,

For once we agree.

There has been some "noise" lately about running small RJs at the mainline, and ALPAs grievance regarding the new XJ jets is still pending.

Now in any typical business, if you have problems in your supply chain, you move to shore it up by either finding a better vendor, working with the vendor you have to improve, or moving the supply chain in-house.

But in this case, none of these will happen because there really are no better vendors (all regionals are mostly the same from that standpoint). NWA BOUGHT Express (aka PCL) to improve the product, and that didn't really help either other than being able to fire the people running the place.

Lastly NWA will move to in-house feed when hell freezes solid. Managament's whole goal has been to outsource every last item and become a virtual airline.

Nu

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Maybe flying will start shifting back to the mainlines. Now, that would be good news for everyone.

There should have never been anything but. To me, the concept of an airline within an airline and airline pilots been branded as separate classes always made as much sense as Braille on a drive through teller machine. There shouldn't have been ANY outsourcing of any kind, NEVER. If there is a kite in the sky with NWA colors on it (Or any brand for that matter) there should be a NWA seniority pilot at the end of the string, simple as that.

The problems with the regional not finding adequate personnel is not only a matter of money, because lets be frank here. Starting at any mainline carrier in this country the pay sucks! and I put it mildly. The way I see it is that people would endure the hardship of low pay and bad schedules if they saw a career progression in their future. If lets say, a young person that would be hired within the NWA system as an F/O on the Saab, can see that as time progresses he can become Captain on the Saab and from there Captain on the CRJ-200 and CRJ-900 and from there F/O on the DC-9 and end his career after 30 years of service within THE SAME CORPORATE STRUCTURE, as a Captain on the 74 or the 87. This same corporate structure would be swampt with resumes to fly for the same $20 bucks an hour. Why? It would be a CAREER at that point not just another job or a means to an end. I'm sure that they would be able to keep a lower cost structure flying the smaller A/C's as well as the flexibility of not dealing with SCOPE while placing the right size A/C without limitations on the right size market.
But since I'm a Dumb Pilot, I definitely don't understand the big picture and ALPA's and management's Kool aid taste exactly the same. They both taste like $hit

Done ranting

 

[Flyprdu]

NWA management is predicting at the current rate of attrition 9E may be out of business by the end of this year. Time to call HR and tell them you'll work for no less than $100K, see how desperate they really are.

A 9E Out of Business thread is about as realistic as announcing that 9E has 30 firm orders for 787s.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

As I understand the NWA contract, which I interpret differently than other people(management background), is NWA can operate the jets at mainline using mainline pilots with mainline seniority that are contractually separated from pilots whom are scope protected. I.E. when the time comes the bottom list is subject to a different type of bargaining that is subject to the RFP. In other words the narrowbody fleet will over the next ten years, be turned into a more leveraged contract in favor of management.