Champion Air

[NavajoKing]

Wondering if their anyone that works there that can give a little info on hiring and QOL.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

There's been quite a bit written on here about working at Champion. Do a search and you'll find bunch...

But in a nut shell:

If you are a senior captain or FO in MSP, yeah, life really isn't too bad at all. Once you get to an outstation and your junior, life is really not good at all. We have a management team that still thinks we are a mom-and-pop operation and it is run in that fashion. There is blatant disregard for violating our lawful contract and they choose not to follow the grievance process that both parties agreed to.

That aside, they perpetually understaff the company. We get rescheduled more than any other company I've ever seen. The language in the current contract provides holes large enough that a semi could drive through them. For instance, the company has up to 24 hours to get you home at the completion of your trip. They don't have to pay you any more than scheduled or actual value for that particular trip, even though you effectively lost a day off. This is just one small example.

Some other details of our contract really are not too stellar.

1/2 pay for DH's (We typically dead-head all over the country)
No minimum day (This is especially important when you are out 3-5 day NBA trip and you only credit 8 hours)
No defined rest, per Part 121 supplemental rules
24 hour, 6 day a week reserve periods
65 hour guarantee
Minimum 10 days off
No company match 401k contributions
Almost 6 months of every year are blocked so that you cannot bid vacation during those times (Mostly during the summer)
Expensive health care coverage - I guess like any company nowadays
Per diem only during training (Training is defined from the point you begin ground school until you finish OE - Some newer pilots took up to 2 1/2 months to finish OE)

This isn't a "train-to-proficiency" company. Most pilots refer to proficiency checks as "PC by firing squad". The chief pilot acts in a dual capacity as chief pilot and check airman around here. (Personally, I feel that it's a conflict of interest, but that's just me).

We are attempting to get a new contract in place. There is speculation that we may be released for possible strike around May, but who knows...

If you have a choice, go somewhere else, I would highly recommend you explore those options. If you want to upgrade, it's sitting anywhere from a year up to 7 years depending on base.

If you want some other opinions, I think thedude worked there also... You might be able to PM him for some more info...

The biggest thing is "BUYER BEWARE"....

Hope this helps.

 

[NavajoKing]

Thanks for the reply, I just seen they had an add on climbto350.

 

[schafjet]

There's been quite a bit written on here about working at Champion. Do a search and you'll find bunch...

But in a nut shell:

If you are a senior captain or FO in MSP, yeah, life really isn't too bad at all. Once you get to an outstation and your junior, life is really not good at all. We have a management team that still thinks we are a mom-and-pop operation and it is run in that fashion. There is blatant disregard for violating our lawful contract and they choose not to follow the grievance process that both parties agreed to.

That aside, they perpetually understaff the company. We get rescheduled more than any other company I've ever seen. The language in the current contract provides holes large enough that a semi could drive through them. For instance, the company has up to 24 hours to get you home at the completion of your trip. They don't have to pay you any more than scheduled or actual value for that particular trip, even though you effectively lost a day off. This is just one small example.

Some other details of our contract really are not too stellar.

1/2 pay for DH's (We typically dead-head all over the country)
No minimum day (This is especially important when you are out 3-5 day NBA trip and you only credit 8 hours)
No defined rest, per Part 121 supplemental rules
24 hour, 6 day a week reserve periods
65 hour guarantee
Minimum 10 days off
No company match 401k contributions
Almost 6 months of every year are blocked so that you cannot bid vacation during those times (Mostly during the summer)
Expensive health care coverage - I guess like any company nowadays
Per diem only during training (Training is defined from the point you begin ground school until you finish OE - Some newer pilots took up to 2 1/2 months to finish OE)

This isn't a "train-to-proficiency" company. Most pilots refer to proficiency checks as "PC by firing squad". The chief pilot acts in a dual capacity as chief pilot and check airman around here. (Personally, I feel that it's a conflict of interest, but that's just me).

We are attempting to get a new contract in place. There is speculation that we may be released for possible strike around May, but who knows...

If you have a choice, go somewhere else, I would highly recommend you explore those options. If you want to upgrade, it's sitting anywhere from a year up to 7 years depending on base.

If you want some other opinions, I think thedude worked there also... You might be able to PM him for some more info...

The biggest thing is "BUYER BEWARE"....

Hope this helps.

Who negotiated your contract, Dean? If so, he must want a new boat. Guess you need to be an ex-laker to get that one. Just kiddin Dean.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Sorry dude, this isn't Dean... :beer:

 

[schafjet]

Sorry dude, this isn't Dean... :beer:

No, but did he negotiate your contract? It just sounded like your contract was similiar to a GLA contract once upon a time.

 

[727C47]

the 1st one was negotiated in '02,while the industry was collapsing around us, ALPA national said that was probably the best deal we were going to get in that environment, things are a bit rosier now, so hope springs eternal this time around.

 

[n5374f]

This guy is telling you how it is at Champion and to tell the truth he sugar coated it. Champion sucks plain and simple..........Ex Champion Pilot

 

[727C47]

........

 

[NavajoKing]

This guy is telling you how it is at Champion and to tell the truth he sugar coated it. Champion sucks plain and simple..........Ex Champion Pilot

So what do you have to add to it?

 

[727C47]

heres the deal,Champion,is a non-sched, qol for juniors, is probably going to be less than ideal because unless you live in domicile,you will be commuting for a reserve,or relief line, we are working in upping qol for everybody with a new contract currently under negotiation, we have an awesome MEC, God's grace we will settle this contract thing in the affirmative soon. if you are a senior FO,or even a jr CA living in base, life is not too bad, we are working on compensation , some guys hate this place with a passion, others love it, i think this place has potential, I hope,I pray it realises it. I love flying the 727 though, God's gift to pilots is the Boeing 3 holer. Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[Extrascorp]

heres the deal,Champion,is a non-sched, qol for juniors, is probably going to be less than ideal because unless you live in domicile,you will be commuting for a reserve,or relief line, we are working in upping qol for everybody with a new contract currently under negotiation, we have an awesome MEC, God's grace we will settle this contract thing in the affirmative soon. if you are a senior FO,or even a jr CA living in base, life is not too bad, we are working on compensation , some guys hate this place with a passion, others love it, i think this place has potential, I hope,I pray it realises it. I love flying the 727 though, God's gift to pilots is the Boeing 3 holer. Good luck, whatever you decide.

It appears that on APC the company is hiring, now a few questions:
-If hired do you have to go through the FE panel before the right seat?
-Is it necessary to have the FE tkt?
-How is attrition now ? Forecast about an upgrade time-frame?
-If DFW is your preferred domicile is it easy to obtain?
-How is the schedule structured?
-If successful what will be the outcome of the current negotiation?
-And ultimately are there any contracts of any sort at the time of joining?

I know a lot of questions but I will appreciate anybody waisting their time to answer any questions.
Thanks again!!!

 

[727C47]

1. yes
2. just the fe written
3.people are leaving ,everywhere from mesaba recalls, to newhires at continental.airtran et al. upgrades several months to a year on the panel depending,on growth,business,and attrition.
4. DTW is junior, all seats, MSP is senior, DFW ,and STL are somewhere in the middle, a new hire may get DFW as engineer,but you would get a better idea at the interview.
5. you bid a line, every month,guarantee 65 hrs. 11 days off min in a line.
6.better compensation,better QOL.
7.NO training contracts.
8. Good luck,Godspeed whether you come here or not.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I just got the call for interview for FE. I am a First Officer at ASA on the 70 seater. I am getting close to upgrade to Capt. in about 6 months. Would you jump to Champion or would you stick it out and get the 1000 pic time? I Love my job but have to say that ASA has huge problems.
Champion a good place to work? I would like to talk to someone about their airline and charters. I don't mind giving my cell to see if this is a good move or not.
Thanks

 

[n5374f]

If you are flying a 70 seat EFIS Equipped Aircraft with FMS, I presume it is a jet aircraft, and you are that close to being a captain then I would stay where I was at. Yes flying the 3 holer is fun, but being a FE is a dead end job, the B727 is a dinosaur. And Champion Air is a lousy place to work.

 

[rightseatjocky]

If you are flying a 70 seat EFIS Equipped Aircraft with FMS, I presume it is a jet aircraft, and you are that close to being a captain then I would stay where I was at. Yes flying the 3 holer is fun, but being a FE is a dead end job, the B727 is a dinosaur. And Champion Air is a lousy place to work.

Thanks, I will tell Susan thanks but no thanks. I should just get the 1000 pic and I will be more marketable any way.. Thanks for your input.

 

[727C47]

If you are close to upgrading ,career wise it would make more sense to stick it out where you are,the 727 is an awesome ship,I love flying it, but you would probably be better off getting your PIC at ASA,rather than changing horses midstream. Every place has its issues, this place has potential,that many hope will be realized. cheers,n5374f, whoever you are, i hope you are happy in your new position. rtseat jockey, Godspeed whatever you choose.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I was leaning that way, thanks for the input. I think you're right though, I will just stay right here, get the 1000 pic and that makes me more marketable. Thanks again.

 

[IFollowRoads]

I'm going to take the FE Basic Turbojet after a few more days of studying. I have the ATP121 written in the bag already. With my A&P I could do the FE ride in the sim somewhere. I have 1400hrs total, 600hrs turbine SIC, 12 or so turbine PIC. If anyone would venture a guess at what my chances would be of getting on the panel, I'd appreciate it. Also if the 2000tt requirement is solid.

Oh wait, I meant to say "I'm asking for a friend of mine"

 

[NavajoKing]

I would love to fly the 727, classic bird. I just don't know if it would be worth wile to do the FE written to try and get on with champion. Seems to me that all roads lead to the regionals. I guess im just to sentimental.

 

[727C47]

I'm going to take the FE Basic Turbojet after a few more days of studying. I have the ATP121 written in the bag already. With my A&P I could do the FE ride in the sim somewhere. I have 1400hrs total, 600hrs turbine SIC, 12 or so turbine PIC. If anyone would venture a guess at what my chances would be of getting on the panel, I'd appreciate it. Also if the 2000tt requirement is solid.

Oh wait, I meant to say "I'm asking for a friend of mine"

Good luck, I don't know how solid the 2K requirement is. Cheers,and Godspeed.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I'm going to take the FE Basic Turbojet after a few more days of studying. I have the ATP121 written in the bag already. With my A&P I could do the FE ride in the sim somewhere. I have 1400hrs total, 600hrs turbine SIC, 12 or so turbine PIC. If anyone would venture a guess at what my chances would be of getting on the panel, I'd appreciate it. Also if the 2000tt requirement is solid.

Oh wait, I meant to say "I'm asking for a friend of mine"

At this point, the 2000hr requirement isn't very solid at all... Champion is having a hard time filling the upcoming class. As for getting the panel, rest assured, if you are hired, you will take your tour of duty through the panel. It's actually a contractual requirement with ALPA.

 

[MTV]

what kind of potential does Champion have ?

 

[727C47]

what kind of potential does Champion have ?

We fly everything from the Marines to the family of 4 making their annual pilgramage to DisneyWorld, we fly a fleet of 17 aging but still beautiful 727s,we are in the black financially, and are currently negotiating our second ALPA contract. One days work may see you in Las Vegas, the next Costa Rica,the next after that LAX, or ANC on a DOD charter. The flying is awesome,but you have to pass through the FE's seat to get to it. Compensation is something we are working on,and if you do not live in base,and you are junior, a commutable line is a challenge. Some love it, some love it and move on to 121 people carriers in the Sched world,some can't stand it and move on quickly, but back to your original question our potential? God's grace, blue skies, and green fields forever, every move is a gamble,follow your gut. I think FEdEx,UPS,and the Tejas 737 guys are the only sure thing out there.

 

[KingNothing]

From a previous post, someone said that min day was 10, when I thought it was 11? And it's only no min day on NBA trips. Regular trips have min day. I just dont know why if you live in domicle that there's anything wrong working with Champion.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I'll have to dig into my contract again, but I recall that it was 10 days off... There is no minimum day for any type of flying. Again, we are hoping to get this changed in the next contract.

Living in base and working here all depends on your expectations. If you want to live in MSP, you'll be home. However, you'll potentially be on reserve for a long time. If you're more flexible, there are other more junior bases that'll provide you with more flying and quicker upgrades. It's all worth weighing.

Having flown with 727C47 a bunch, I can personally state that we have a great group of pilots. You get to see some great places. Many more than I would have seen at the regionals. And if they fix some key issues in the contract, I could see myself staying here for a career.

 

[n5374f]

This guy must be on crack, Dewey better get him tested

This guy must be on crack, Dewey better get him tested right away, thinks things are going to get better at Champion, hasn't for the last 5 years what do you think is going to change now. He is going to make a career at Champion, Wow now he is really smoking crack. So he is going to wait until he has been there a long time, so then when they mess with him for using his allowed sick days and fire him for using them he will be to old to get employed any where else while he waits for his grievence to never get heard.

 

[IFollowRoads]

*civilian

 

[Workin'Stiff]

This guy must be on crack, Dewey better get him tested right away, thinks things are going to get better at Champion, hasn't for the last 5 years what do you think is going to change now. He is going to make a career at Champion, Wow now he is really smoking crack. So he is going to wait until he has been there a long time, so then when they mess with him for using his allowed sick days and fire him for using them he will be to old to get employed any where else while he waits for his grievence to never get heard.

First of all, you've made a choice of leaving to head to corporate. And I sincerely hope that it's working for you. As for myself, I had to make a tough decision and I'm doing the best with what I've got. And like I said, if "KEY" changes are made in the contract, life can become much better around here than what it is now. Until then, I'll continue to tell people what it's like to be employed around there and leave it up to them to make their own decisions.

Champion, quite obviously, didn't work out well at all for you. However, my opinion and career employment will be predicated on events to happen in the near future.

 

[ikillbigfoot]

If I wanted to be a SO based out of MSP what type of schedules could I expect (or how often could I be at home to play with my little ones)?......Like nights away from home per week or per month?