New trend for AirTran negotiations?

[Steeler Fan]

Maybe what I said didn't come across right (or I'm misunderstanding you), but I'm not saying it SHOULD be a "Captain's airline", that's just the impression that I've gotten since I've worked here.


Other than that, I also agree that a happy crew is a quick and easy trip is quicker and easier back home.

I'm not so sure about the last sentence, but everything else sounds great to me!

Oh yeah, GO COWBOYS! imp:

I typed a lenghty response to this, but when I went to post it, all was deleted. Oh well here goes.

Captain's Airline-- Anyone who thinks that treating F/Os like crap because that's how they were treated is a moron!

F/O pay -- If we're all going to upgrade in 2-3 years, what's so hard about having better pay F/O rates beyond year 4? Maybe we'd have less attrition that way, which would reduce costs and enhance our job security.

Captain's Airline -- I'm supposed to help you, as an F/O prepare to be an AirTran Captain. In that regard, I'd be an idiot to try to pidgeon hole you into flying the airplane "my way". Just be standard (AOM/FOM/FAR stuff). Other than that, if it's technique, as long as it gets the job done, have at it. I hate it when you have to have a scouting report for individual Captains.

You fly with one Capt who says "this is the way you need to do it!" Then on your next trip, the next Capt says "no, don't do it that way, do it this way". How frustrating is that? Every trip, a new set of rules. It sux when the guy meets you and asks "hey man, what things are you particular about?" I start wondering who they've been flying with.

If I don't let you be you, then I'll never learn anything.

I flew with some original Allegheny Airline guys who had a PHD in "Captain's Airline". It was no fun (mainly because they were not standard and expected me to morph to their non-standard ways).


Oh yeah, other than the Dallas Cowboys thing, I agree with your entire post.

What do the Cowboys and summer vacation have in common?

NO CLASS!

 

[Lear70]

No...its the pilots...

I always hate to hear this one.

The fact of the matter is that pilots will always be loathe to get involved unless they absolutely have to.

The only thing a line pilot needs to do is show up to work, do their job, fly the contract, stay informed of what the Association is doing, voice their opinions/concerns, and vote when the time comes.

The volunteers bear the burden of of the work to better everyone's QOL. That's why they volunteer and that's what we elect them for.

Not everyone can be the Indian Chief, or even the Vice-Indian Chief.

 

[Lear70]

Oh yeah, other than the Dallas Cowboys thing, I agree with your entire post.

What do the Cowboys and summer vacation have in common?

NO CLASS!

HEY!

I didn't go dissing your Steelers, don't you be bashing my 'Boys.

Seriously, there's only one person on that team that gives everyone else a bad name. I thought they did quite well this season, although they deserved to lose after that playoff performance. What a joke!

 

[mnboyev]

I will make sure someone talks to you guys...did you email the right folks at the National? If you send me a pm I'll follow up... Just a bit of history..The last contract's first TA was voted down...due to FO rates.. I encourage you to call the office....We certainly don't need a change in union leadership at this juncture.....Respecfully

 

[Steeler Fan]

I will make sure someone talks to you guys...did you email the right folks at the National? If you send me a pm I'll follow up... Just a bit of history..The last contract's first TA was voted down...due to FO rates.. I encourage you to call the office....We certainly don't need a change in union leadership at this juncture.....Respecfully

In fairness to the union guys, EV, you're right. I heard these F/O rates were alot better than what was here last contract. My point about changing the midset that F/O rates past year 3 don't matter is still valid to alot of people on the property, and unless that is satisfactorily addressed, it wouldn't surprise me if this TA is voted down as well.

Personally, I e-mailed Allen once, about CASS, and received a quick response. Also, BS is on my speed dial and has always gotten back to me, same goes for MG.

 

[Steeler Fan]

HEY!

I didn't go dissing your Steelers, don't you be bashing my 'Boys.

Seriously, there's only one person on that team that gives everyone else a bad name. I thought they did quite well this season, although they deserved to lose after that playoff performance. What a joke!

Ever since Tom Landry left, the organization has lost some of its luster. I felt bad for Tony Romo.

But then again my Steelers didn't exactly represent all that well this year. Thanks to all the Ravens' fans who reminded me of that this year.

 

[FIREMAN]

I'm with you on this one. Perhaps we should all start emailing AP with our inputs.

AP does not give a rats a$$ what your input is.

 

[SLEDNECK]

AP does not give a rats a$$ what your input is.

100% correct!

 

[DCitrus9]

Why do you only say the FO pay rates need to got up? I think ALL pay rates need to go up. FO is currently 60% of CA pay (average) up through 8th year, which seems to be relatively standard (frontier and jetblue.) Some are higher %, but some are lower.
This in house union is also a much better option than ALPA or Teamsters.

 

[gt1900]

WE DO KNOT WANT TEAMSTERS on property.. With the possible exception of Horizon (which was still a cluster) they do not have a good reputation in the airline industry... BTW... RP will be back on line March 1st... Everyone kissed, made up, and apoligized... Good to hear, this goes a little way (though small) in restoring some credability between the union and company...

 

[DonVerita]

I've been here a year and I can definitely say that AAI is 10X better than what I experienced at a certain commuter.

Not to rain on your parade, and I'm glad that you're happy but...
This is the problem I see over and over again; Comparison of where you are now to the commuter job you left.

STOP thinking like a regional. You are a g-dam MAJOR airline pilot now. Start thinking like one and start showing the strength of resolve that the title expects of you.

 

[SLEDNECK]

This in house union is also a much better option that ALPA or Teamsters. If you are not happy with it, get involved and share your expertise.[/quote]

This union couldn't be much worse. It gives the average line pilot very little recourse when the leaders are not speaking for them. Complain about ALPA all you want, but the dues are less there and you get a lot more bennies to go with them. Not to mention that we are currently paying more in dues during contract negotiations so that we can pay for third party(ALPA) help. So basically we get more for less and use the extra to pay for what we could already have. I would rather have ALPA and be bitching about them, at least I would have someone to bitch to and someone would be held accountable. Here, it's take or leave it which sucks when the dues are the among the highest and the return is among the lowest in membership bennies not to mention the lop-sided control that the company enjoys. I don't see how ALPA or Teamsters could be any worse. This union wrote an LOA that made it so no one could grieve the holiday mess, then they followed it up with another LOA that made SAP II worthless so that we could keep our precious flica. They also decided to use these dues to fund a committe to support age 65 without asking it's members what they thought and is only supported by a minority of pilots at the top. Sorry, but if you think this "in house" union is a better option than I would hate to see where you come from because it doesn't get much worse than this. The moral is low because of all the crap the company has gotten away with. Every company tries to get away with this stuff, it's just that our union has not only allowed it, but piece by piece, written away our contract so that we can't grieve it.

 

[Ty Webb]

STOP thinking like a regional. You are a g-dam MAJOR airline pilot now. Start thinking like one and start showing the strength of resolve that the title expects of you.

" . . . And for God's sake, TUCK IN THOSE PAJAMAS!". :laugh:


I, too, am tired of the former regional guys that use that as a basis point for comparison . . . . or the military guys who think everything is great beacuse "We get to sleep in real BEDS and no one's shootin' at us!"

Again, not a basis for comparison.


.

 

[DCitrus9]

Sledneck, I've been under teamsters and they're much worse.
I agree with your examples and acknowledge NPA is not perfect, but it has improved greatly and continues to do so. The examples you cite are minor compared to the chit that used to go on!
I still believe NPA gives us better representation than ALPA. Convince me ALPA is better, what additional recourse would be available if the SNAFUs you listed had occurred under their watch. I'm truly curious, as I've never been a member.

 

[Lear70]

I still believe NPA gives us better representation than ALPA. Convince me ALPA is better, what additional recourse would be available if the SNAFUs you listed had occurred under their watch. I'm truly curious, as I've never been a member.

There isn't a big difference between unions; there's just not. I've seen a lot of stuff go by all three unions at three different carriers. Everyone is restricted by the RLA.

That said, there's a lot of things that were given up under the current administration than should not have been. At the very least, they should have been cashed in as a BIG bargaining chip for something else.

Unfortunately, it was an opportunity missed; that's what aggravates me so much, and it all boils down to the people at the helm of the NPA as to how the recent issues have been managed.

THAT'S why I say it's the senior reps of ANY union that make the difference.

I also don't "like" the idea of switching representation right now either, but something NEEDS to give on the F/O rates. I agree that CA rates need to go up also, but 4% on 5 and 6 year F/O rates?? That's not even COLA!!

p.s. Yes, I sent my email directly to AP by copying his email address off the pilot side of the NPA website. I also copied the girl that runs the office, and she acknowledged that I had the right address when I sent the 2nd one and CC'd her. :uzi: