Frontier pilots approve labor contract

[F9 Driver]

By Kelly Yamanouchi
Denver Post Staff Writer
Denver Post
Article Last Updated:02/15/2007 01:28:55 PM MST
Frontier Airlines pilots have approved a new labor contract.

In a vote that concluded today, 67.4 percent of pilots voting were in favor of the new agreement, while 32.6 percent were against, said Frontier Airline Pilots Association president Jeff Thomas.

The four-year agreement freezes pay for a year for most of Frontier's approximately 650 pilots, according to Thomas.

It includes future cost-of-living pay increases and future pay-scale reductions, making it essentially "cost-neutral," he said when the tentative agreement was reached.

The pilots union agreement adds a defined-contribution retirement plan and includes some changes in work rules and productivity improvements, Thomas said.

The agreement also allows Frontier to use non-Frontier Airlines Pilots Association pilots for its Q400 turboprop operation.

But Thomas said the contract limits flying by other pilots relative to the size of its main Airbus operation, which is flown by the unionized pilots.

"The intent is that this flying should promote growth" of the mainline operation, Thomas said.

Staff writer Kelly Yamanouchi can be reached at 303-954-1488 or at [email protected] .

 

[Blucher]

Any chance someone could post the TA for the rest of us to see?
Thanks.

-Blucher

 

[radarlove]

The agreement also allows Frontier to use non-Frontier Airlines Pilots Association pilots for its Q400 turboprop operation.

They never learn...

 

[rtmcfi]

They never learn...

No kidding... talk about a missed opportunity

 

[Old School 737]

Thought it would be a bit closer on the voting.

 

[F9 Driver]

Frontier Airlines Reaches Definitive Agreement With Frontier Airline Pilots Association
Thursday February 15, 6:09 pm ET
Four-Year Contract Ratified by Pilot Membership

DENVER, Feb. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Frontier Airlines (Nasdaq: FRNT - News) and the Frontier Airline Pilots Association (FAPA) today announced that FAPA membership has ratified a new collective bargaining agreement by a vote of 289 (67%) for to 140 (33%) against, which represents 429 votes out of 553 eligible voters, or 78%. The new four-year agreement amends the previous five-year contract signed in May 2000. Implementation of the approved agreement will begin in March, 2007.
"Today's ratification results are a tremendous step forward for both Frontier and our pilots as we enter one of the most exciting and dynamic phases of this Company's history," said Jeff Potter, President and CEO of Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. "Once again, FAPA and Frontier have demonstrated a level of cooperation for the mutual benefit of the company and our pilots, which is rarely seen in this industry between a union and an airline. We are grateful to our pilots and FAPA leadership for their support of a contract that helps the Company secure its future."

"Today's news is indicative of the spirit of cooperation and integrity that FAPA membership represents," said Captain Jeffrey Thomas, President of FAPA. "This agreement provides significant improvement to our pilots' retirement benefits, preserves our scheduling and work rules, and improves the job protections our pilots have earned through their contributions to Frontier. The new agreement will continue to provide Frontier with industry leading pilot productivity as well as one of the most competitive crew operating costs in the industry. We appreciate the time and effort that FAPA representatives as well as Frontier management put into this process and I am confident that we have reached an agreement that meets the needs of the Company and our pilots."

About Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc.

Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. is the parent company of Denver-based Frontier Airlines. Currently in its 13th year of operations, Frontier Airlines is the second largest jet service carrier at Denver International Airport, employing approximately 5,000 aviation professionals. With 55 aircraft and one of the youngest Airbus fleet in North America, Frontier offers 24 channels of DIRECTV® service in every seatback along with 33 inches of legroom in an all coach configuration. In conjunction with Frontier JetExpress operated by Horizon Air, Frontier operates routes linking its Denver hub to 55 destinations including 47 destinations in 29 states spanning the nation from coast to coast, seven cities in Mexico and one city in Canada. In November of 2006, Frontier and AirTran announced a first-of-its-kind integrated marketing partnership that offers travelers the ability to reach more than 80 destinations across four countries with low fares, aboard two of the youngest fleets in the industry. In December of 2006 Frontier was designated "Best Low Cost Carrier" in the U.S. by the readers of Business Traveler magazine. For more in-depth information on Frontier Airlines, please visit our website at www.FrontierAirlines.com.

About Frontier Airline Pilots Association

The Frontier Airline Pilots Association is the independent labor representation unit of the Frontier Airlines pilots. Certified by the National Mediation Board in 1998, the group represents 650 pilots at Frontier Airlines. For more information contact FAPA at 303-373-0137.

 

[1st Rate]

It doesn't sound like a great contract if it was only passed by 67% of the pilots. Good Luck!!

 

[jetalc]

No kidding... talk about a missed opportunity

OK, I'll bite - what clairvoyance do you possess that makes our opportunity a "missed one?" It was the desire of every F9 pilot to have one seniority list for F9 and Lynx, and we would have negotiated other things away...can you please enlighten us?

 

[Porch]

SadDay

Bad move fellas... Most voted for it because they've never been burned by mgt/major share holders in their past. For many seinor folk this is their first airline. Too bad the yes voters didn't do their reseacrh and learn from other pilot groups mistakes. Per your volition, it's time to learn your lesson the hard way.

 

[jetalc]

Bad move fellas... Most voted for it because they've never been burned by mgt/major share holders in their past.

That is an incorrect statement.

 

[Porch]

That is an incorrect statement.

That is an incorrect statement.

 

[F9 Driver]

Any chance someone could post the TA for the rest of us to see?
Thanks.

-Blucher

At 100+ pages I'm guessing you'll find it at airlinepilotpay.com first.

 

[ricj41]

No contract is going to be perfect. We won some and the company won some. Hightlights:

Pay scales
First year pay drops to $36 for new hires who start after March 2nd. All other fo pay rates stay the same. Cpts are frozen for 2 years and the scales are lengthened to 14 years. So called colas of 1.5% and 1% dos+3 and 4
Retirement
New dc plan year 3 is 2.2% goes up to 6% by year 9. 6% at DOS+2 at year 8 and DOS+4 is year 7. 401k matching is still 50% up to 10%. Both are now per pay check instead of end of year which the 401k was.
Scope
Unlimited turboprop operations of up to 78 seats
Small jets 1 to 2 ratio for current mainline aircraft and 1 to 1 for new aircraft after 03/01/07. There are weight limits and other stuff to limit the size but basically 1/3 can be up to 88 seats the others are limited to 78 seats.
The rest of the scope is now with Frontier Holdings.
Our successorship and merger protection language is greatly strengthed and expanded.
Other changes
Long call reserve 12 hours, medium of 8 hrs and short call 2 hrs
Commuter policy in place, though language is a little fuzzy.
Scheduling
daily open time drops limited to 8 trips on weekends and 12 on weekdays.
daily open time drops are now limited to 0930 the day prior.
My personal summary
Captain pay scales are still pretty good compared to every other airline. FO pay is about average. Of course we are not really getting any cola increases over the life of the contract. Our retirment I thought sucked until I saw how it stacked up against everyone else. We get 11% after 9 years and only 5 airlines are better with 2 being at 12 and 12.5%. The scope is were the arguments for and against got testy. If the company uses it to grow and feed Frontier airlines it is a good thing. If they use it to outsource our flying it is a bad thing. It all depends on CASM. I personally thought it was too much and voted so.
To all those who thought we would get the turbo prop flying when no other mainline has it is smoking crack. We would be competing against Mesa and there $50 cpts at segment pay on the dash 8s. As much as we wanted it we new we wouldn't be able to get it. Nor was it worth striking over.
My 2 cents

 

[ricj41]

Hey Porch,
When you say the senior folk are you talking about the 46 who have been here for 10 years or the 161 who have been here prior to 2000? We have over 660 pilots. The vast majority have worked for crap regional or cargo outfits and/or have been furloughed from a legacy carrier. The most junior captain was hired in March 03.
You need to do your research before you make grandiose statements about pilot groups you know nothing about.

 

[Blucher]

Thanks, ricj41, that's what I was looking for. Sadly I've got to agree, they are clearly planning on outsourcing the crap out of you guys. Expect a whole bunch of E175's and the like showing up in Denver real soon. Very sad. Frontier is a great airline, this is a very upsetting turn of events.

-Blucher

 

[GuppyWN]

Let's see. You voted to freeze your pay for 2 years. Then you agree to a skimpy little cola raise followed by a pay reduction. All in all you just gave yourselves a 5 year pay freeze. Meanwhile you gave away all future turboprop flying and you will have. In return you get a 10% cap on 401k and a 9.6% limited dc.

70% of you guys voted FOR THAT? Wow.

Gup

 

[F9 Buff]

So over the next few years they could potentially bring in up to something like fifty 88/78 seat jets?

Does this open the door for F9 to ditch Republic after a few years and get their own 170s?

It sounds like Lynx isn't the enemy here. Lynx should really help with growth but if a bunch of those Ejets start showing up, they may turn out to be the real enemy? Would these jets be flown by F9 pilots or would this be another new operation? Perhaps "Jets for Jack"?

 

[TOGA]

At the theoretical Airbus fleet size of 100 aircraft, there could be 73 E-jets, including up to 23 with up to 88 seats each. E-jets will not be flown by Frontier pilots. 123 FAPA members who were eligible to vote did not. Only 137 of us voted 'no'.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Welcome to the world of the clueless. Thanks for lowering the bar.

 

[Porch]

Hey Porch,
When you say the senior folk are you talking about the 46 who have been here for 10 years or the 161 who have been here prior to 2000? We have over 660 pilots. The vast majority have worked for crap regional or cargo outfits and/or have been furloughed from a legacy carrier. The most junior captain was hired in March 03.
You need to do your research before you make grandiose statements about pilot groups you know nothing about.

Im talking about 90% of the capts that have been at F9 for 5 to 7 years. Not the new guys that don't have voting rights. Your correct, the new pilots have RA exp. Most others are corp. or some other arena outside of the airlines. Lack of experience gets a bogus contract voted in... that is exactly what happened. The bottom line is well said by WN on the top of the page.

 

[F9 Driver]

Welcome to the world of the clueless. Thanks for lowering the bar.

You're at Airtran and thanking us for lowering the bar?

 

[regionaltard]

Commuter policy in place, though language is a little fuzzy.

Fuzzy? I can assure you that the people on the other side of the table know exactly what it will mean to an arbitrator.

123 FAPA members who were eligible to vote did not.

Negotiated by amateurs, for amateurs. That sure sheds some light on the "theres no way we could have gotten......." line of reasoning.

 

[F9 Buff]

E-jets will not be flown by Frontier pilots.

Would they need an alter ego to fly any Ejets or would they just let something like Republic just grow to that amount? I would think they would be able to make more money by getting them on their own rather than contracting out the flying. That seems to be the thought process behind Lynx at least.

Sounds to me like the worst thing is the possibility of a large # of sub 100 seat jets that could take flying away from mainline.

 

[sweptback]

It is amazing how pathetic the scope is on that contract. I normally try to stay out of an other airline's business but that is a step backward for the industry. Keep in mind that once the genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back... I would have thought that we as a group had learned that by now.

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

Oh Boy

With more and more stupid pilots entering the majors everyday, I predict that in 10 years a 5 year captain will make 100K and fo 50K. Its coming, get out of pax flying, cargo is the only true way to make a living. All chance of quick upgrades at F9 are gone. They will fly the Q400 to 1200 miles and put the RJ's on every mainline route either late at night or early morning or both. I predict that no options for additional 318/319/320 will be exercised, you will see growth just not with your pilot force. I saw this coming and that why I'm at WN now. Not being cocky but this is bad. I've already had 3 F9 pilots call me and ask about WN. Good luck. WN and everyone elsa will have to lower the bar to keep up with this, Virgin, Skybus, and who ever else does this. Everyone better start building a part time gig to make money in the future, we will all need it.

 

[Lear70]

You're at Airtran and thanking us for lowering the bar?

Yeah, I gotta agree with him; definitely bar lowering.

Your 1st year pay rates are now lower than ours and close to poverty wages, your pay rates after that are somewhat higher but, due to the lower starting pay, your F/O's won't catch up until year 5.

Our B-fund being twice what your PROPOSED B-fund is from year 2 on helps keep our CA's close to yours on that side of the scale. You keep your 401k match but you have to put 10% of your salary in to get your 5% that matches our retirement.

Who there can spare 10% years 1-5 at those salary levels?

That's not even the real kicker. What makes this such a big step backwards is... it's a NEW T.A. !! Ours is approaching a DECADE old and in many ways is better than your NEW one??!!

I thought you were supposed to move FORWARD in pay and benefits, at least enough to keep COLA...? 5 years from now you'll essentially be making LESS in terms of spending power that you are now due to the pay freeze then 1% COLA?

1%??!!

How is that not lowering the bar? Or did I miss something in Bargaining 101?

Oh yeah, then you gave up Scope.

YOU GAVE UP SCOPE ??!!

Hasn't anyone there been paying attention the last couple decades to the Legacy carriers and the THOUSANDS of pilot jobs outsourced to regional affiliates?

My condolences to the junior new-hires who weren't vote elligible who will now have to endure the crap side of this T.A. for the next 7-10 years.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

This is about the logic of airline mgmt in general.

At airline X, mgmt wants to "improve" their airline.

They see Delta, NWA, UAL, etc., etc. just starting to hire again for the first time in years. Their brilliant plan is to ask the pilots for lower wages. They're thinking, "Wow, if we lower our new-hire wages, we'll get many more candidates with much better qualifications, since we'll have to start competing with legacy hiring now".

I'm very, very confused.
cliff

YIP

 

[nethan]

Pay issues aside, you guys got rocked on the scope.

 

[pkober]

No contract is going to be perfect. We won some and the company won some. Hightlights:

Pay scales
First year pay drops to $36 for new hires who start after March 2nd. All other fo pay rates stay the same. Cpts are frozen for 2 years and the scales are lengthened to 14 years. So called colas of 1.5% and 1% dos+3 and 4
Retirement
New dc plan year 3 is 2.2% goes up to 6% by year 9. 6% at DOS+2 at year 8 and DOS+4 is year 7. 401k matching is still 50% up to 10%. Both are now per pay check instead of end of year which the 401k was.
Scope
Unlimited turboprop operations of up to 78 seats
Small jets 1 to 2 ratio for current mainline aircraft and 1 to 1 for new aircraft after 03/01/07. There are weight limits and other stuff to limit the size but basically 1/3 can be up to 88 seats the others are limited to 78 seats.
The rest of the scope is now with Frontier Holdings.
Our successorship and merger protection language is greatly strengthed and expanded.
Other changes
Long call reserve 12 hours, medium of 8 hrs and short call 2 hrs
Commuter policy in place, though language is a little fuzzy.
Scheduling
daily open time drops limited to 8 trips on weekends and 12 on weekdays.
daily open time drops are now limited to 0930 the day prior.
My personal summary
Captain pay scales are still pretty good compared to every other airline. FO pay is about average. Of course we are not really getting any cola increases over the life of the contract. Our retirment I thought sucked until I saw how it stacked up against everyone else. We get 11% after 9 years and only 5 airlines are better with 2 being at 12 and 12.5%. The scope is were the arguments for and against got testy. If the company uses it to grow and feed Frontier airlines it is a good thing. If they use it to outsource our flying it is a bad thing. It all depends on CASM. I personally thought it was too much and voted so.
To all those who thought we would get the turbo prop flying when no other mainline has it is smoking crack. We would be competing against Mesa and there $50 cpts at segment pay on the dash 8s. As much as we wanted it we new we wouldn't be able to get it. Nor was it worth striking over.
My 2 cents

Where was your MEC on this clause. Did they actually push this? That could be a killer for you guys. I hope it's not, but talk about opening pandoras box.

This needs to be a wake-up call to everyone else in contract talks or getting ready for some. Don't ever vote for anything dealing with scope that allows someone else the opportunity to get "unlimited" flying at your airline.

We, CAL, just got burned by allowing turboprops under 79 seats, Q400, to be flown by a regional partner. Now we got 24 of these things coming here. That's a bunch of pilots who could have gotten hired at CAL. We lost first shot at jumpseats where ever these things will fly. In short, it's a bad deal.

88 seat RJ's being flown by some one else. YGTBSM !!

I hope it works for you guys.

 

[Porch]

Where are the F9 pilots?

Quiet... Ashamed? We want to hear your logic on why you voted this in!