Frontier pilots approve labor contract

[F9 Driver]

Welcome to the world of the clueless. Thanks for lowering the bar.

You're at Airtran and thanking us for lowering the bar?

 

[regionaltard]

Commuter policy in place, though language is a little fuzzy.

Fuzzy? I can assure you that the people on the other side of the table know exactly what it will mean to an arbitrator.

123 FAPA members who were eligible to vote did not.

Negotiated by amateurs, for amateurs. That sure sheds some light on the "theres no way we could have gotten......." line of reasoning.

 

[F9 Buff]

E-jets will not be flown by Frontier pilots.

Would they need an alter ego to fly any Ejets or would they just let something like Republic just grow to that amount? I would think they would be able to make more money by getting them on their own rather than contracting out the flying. That seems to be the thought process behind Lynx at least.

Sounds to me like the worst thing is the possibility of a large # of sub 100 seat jets that could take flying away from mainline.

 

[sweptback]

It is amazing how pathetic the scope is on that contract. I normally try to stay out of an other airline's business but that is a step backward for the industry. Keep in mind that once the genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back... I would have thought that we as a group had learned that by now.

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

Oh Boy

With more and more stupid pilots entering the majors everyday, I predict that in 10 years a 5 year captain will make 100K and fo 50K. Its coming, get out of pax flying, cargo is the only true way to make a living. All chance of quick upgrades at F9 are gone. They will fly the Q400 to 1200 miles and put the RJ's on every mainline route either late at night or early morning or both. I predict that no options for additional 318/319/320 will be exercised, you will see growth just not with your pilot force. I saw this coming and that why I'm at WN now. Not being cocky but this is bad. I've already had 3 F9 pilots call me and ask about WN. Good luck. WN and everyone elsa will have to lower the bar to keep up with this, Virgin, Skybus, and who ever else does this. Everyone better start building a part time gig to make money in the future, we will all need it.

 

[Lear70]

You're at Airtran and thanking us for lowering the bar?

Yeah, I gotta agree with him; definitely bar lowering.

Your 1st year pay rates are now lower than ours and close to poverty wages, your pay rates after that are somewhat higher but, due to the lower starting pay, your F/O's won't catch up until year 5.

Our B-fund being twice what your PROPOSED B-fund is from year 2 on helps keep our CA's close to yours on that side of the scale. You keep your 401k match but you have to put 10% of your salary in to get your 5% that matches our retirement.

Who there can spare 10% years 1-5 at those salary levels?

That's not even the real kicker. What makes this such a big step backwards is... it's a NEW T.A. !! Ours is approaching a DECADE old and in many ways is better than your NEW one??!!

I thought you were supposed to move FORWARD in pay and benefits, at least enough to keep COLA...? 5 years from now you'll essentially be making LESS in terms of spending power that you are now due to the pay freeze then 1% COLA?

1%??!!

How is that not lowering the bar? Or did I miss something in Bargaining 101?

Oh yeah, then you gave up Scope.

YOU GAVE UP SCOPE ??!!

Hasn't anyone there been paying attention the last couple decades to the Legacy carriers and the THOUSANDS of pilot jobs outsourced to regional affiliates?

My condolences to the junior new-hires who weren't vote elligible who will now have to endure the crap side of this T.A. for the next 7-10 years.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

This is about the logic of airline mgmt in general.

At airline X, mgmt wants to "improve" their airline.

They see Delta, NWA, UAL, etc., etc. just starting to hire again for the first time in years. Their brilliant plan is to ask the pilots for lower wages. They're thinking, "Wow, if we lower our new-hire wages, we'll get many more candidates with much better qualifications, since we'll have to start competing with legacy hiring now".

I'm very, very confused.
cliff

YIP

 

[nethan]

Pay issues aside, you guys got rocked on the scope.

 

[pkober]

No contract is going to be perfect. We won some and the company won some. Hightlights:

Pay scales
First year pay drops to $36 for new hires who start after March 2nd. All other fo pay rates stay the same. Cpts are frozen for 2 years and the scales are lengthened to 14 years. So called colas of 1.5% and 1% dos+3 and 4
Retirement
New dc plan year 3 is 2.2% goes up to 6% by year 9. 6% at DOS+2 at year 8 and DOS+4 is year 7. 401k matching is still 50% up to 10%. Both are now per pay check instead of end of year which the 401k was.
Scope
Unlimited turboprop operations of up to 78 seats
Small jets 1 to 2 ratio for current mainline aircraft and 1 to 1 for new aircraft after 03/01/07. There are weight limits and other stuff to limit the size but basically 1/3 can be up to 88 seats the others are limited to 78 seats.
The rest of the scope is now with Frontier Holdings.
Our successorship and merger protection language is greatly strengthed and expanded.
Other changes
Long call reserve 12 hours, medium of 8 hrs and short call 2 hrs
Commuter policy in place, though language is a little fuzzy.
Scheduling
daily open time drops limited to 8 trips on weekends and 12 on weekdays.
daily open time drops are now limited to 0930 the day prior.
My personal summary
Captain pay scales are still pretty good compared to every other airline. FO pay is about average. Of course we are not really getting any cola increases over the life of the contract. Our retirment I thought sucked until I saw how it stacked up against everyone else. We get 11% after 9 years and only 5 airlines are better with 2 being at 12 and 12.5%. The scope is were the arguments for and against got testy. If the company uses it to grow and feed Frontier airlines it is a good thing. If they use it to outsource our flying it is a bad thing. It all depends on CASM. I personally thought it was too much and voted so.
To all those who thought we would get the turbo prop flying when no other mainline has it is smoking crack. We would be competing against Mesa and there $50 cpts at segment pay on the dash 8s. As much as we wanted it we new we wouldn't be able to get it. Nor was it worth striking over.
My 2 cents

Where was your MEC on this clause. Did they actually push this? That could be a killer for you guys. I hope it's not, but talk about opening pandoras box.

This needs to be a wake-up call to everyone else in contract talks or getting ready for some. Don't ever vote for anything dealing with scope that allows someone else the opportunity to get "unlimited" flying at your airline.

We, CAL, just got burned by allowing turboprops under 79 seats, Q400, to be flown by a regional partner. Now we got 24 of these things coming here. That's a bunch of pilots who could have gotten hired at CAL. We lost first shot at jumpseats where ever these things will fly. In short, it's a bad deal.

88 seat RJ's being flown by some one else. YGTBSM !!

I hope it works for you guys.

 

[Porch]

Where are the F9 pilots?

Quiet... Ashamed? We want to hear your logic on why you voted this in!