Skywest CRJ200

[Capt10Matt]

Anyone know anything about an emergency declared in Bakersfield, CA that happened today? Airport closed down for about 15min or so, looks like they landed flaps up for some reason. Hydraulic failure?

 

[Edge540]

Anyone know anything about an emergency declared in Bakersfield, CA that happened today? Airport closed down for about 15min or so, looks like they landed flaps up for some reason. Hydraulic failure?

Dunno about what happened, but the flaps on the 200s are electric... and they break a lot.

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

In every case I've seen, as long as you have the required landing distance (which BFL does), a flap failure by itself is not an emergency.

 

[bandit317]

In every case I've seen, as long as you have the required landing distance (which BFL does), a flap failure by itself is not an emergency.

Really? Our company considers it an emergency and so does every other 121 carrier I know of. It is an abnormal landing on the CRJ, and depending on weight, it can be very close to max tire speed. You should always declare an emergency with a flap failure so that CFR is standing by in case of tire burst, brake overheat, or running off the end of the runway.

 

[CFIT]

A flap failure by itself is not an emergency, if the only runway is questionable such as braking action, etc. maybe so.

If your company mandates it to be an emergency, so be it.

It's not that big of a deal, I've had a few myself, no biggie.

 

[svcta]

A flap failure by itself is not an emergency, if the only runway is questionable such as braking action, etc. maybe so.

If your company mandates it to be an emergency, so be it.

It's not that big of a deal, I've had a few myself, no biggie.

The point is that in the CRJ-200 a flap failure(0 flap landing) is kind of a big deal. You're dealing with an airplane that has Ref speeds normally around 130-140 or more even, factor out the flaps and you can see a Ref of 180 or even a little more if memory serves. Tell me how landing a 47000# airplane at 180+ kts is not that big of a deal? We used to do it in the sim. ....what a beeotch of an approach.

I'm sure that in a Merlin it's not a big deal, though.

 

[Soverytired]

"NOTE: Improper landing technique during a flaps failure can generate nose gear loads sufficient to cause structural damage"


I'd put the pax in the brace position just in case (this happened to one of my FO's with a Mesa check airman). And declare an emergency. What's the big deal? You're going to be filing the same paperwork no matter what happens anyway.

Giving a rat's ass about declaring an emergency is private pilot stuff. You can declare an emergency and explain your specific needs to the controllers without tying up arrivals/departures anyway.

Hell, you can CANCEL an emergency declaration if you figure out a fix ("Oh . . . THAT's the flap lever. Ooops" )

Really, it's NBD.

 

[rickair7777]

It doesn't cost anything to declare the emergency, but you have to consider VERY, VERY carefully before you brace 'em up...that will create serious emotional truama in some pax, what with the FA screaming her head off the whole way down. I wouldn't do it for a no-flapper, if conditions were forgiving.

 

[Soverytired]

It doesn't cost anything to declare the emergency, but you have to consider VERY, VERY carefully before you brace 'em up...that will create serious emotional truama in some pax, what with the FA screaming her head off the whole way down. I wouldn't do it for a no-flapper, if conditions were forgiving.

I understand what you're saying, but emotional trauma just means you lost a future customer (they won't be flying anymore); having a bunch of passengers get their necks snapped and backs broken from whiplash as the nosewheel collapses at 200 mph is quite a bit more serious. I've landed a CRJ at flaps 0 myself in training (aircraft training), and it's NBD, but that NOTE was put in the checklist for a reason.

Besides, this is the sort of thing you have at least 45 minutes (reserve fuel) to calmly explain to the passengers what's going on. If you play your hand right, no one gets hurt, the passengers think you're some sort of flying god, and everyone goes home happy.

 

[rtmcfi]

A flap failure by itself is not an emergency, if the only runway is questionable such as braking action, etc. maybe so.

If your company mandates it to be an emergency, so be it.

It's not that big of a deal, I've had a few myself, no biggie.

On the CRJ are the flaps considered flight controls?

 

[geardown]

Except for the fact that we live in a sue happy society, and emotional trauma can pay big dividends in court.

 

[wmuflyguy]

On the CRJ are the flaps considered flight controls?

I would consider them secondary flight controls, but does it matter what aircraft it is?

 

[rickair7777]

I would consider them secondary flight controls, but does it matter what aircraft it is?

Flaps are secondary. But spoilers, for example, can be primary or secondary, depending on the aircraft.

 

[rtmcfi]

I would consider them secondary flight controls, but does it matter what aircraft it is?

Nope, I don't really know why I specified the CRJ. I was just kinda wondering if there was anything in the SkyWest SOPs pertaining to the failure of flight control systems, and notification of the FAA, and or the NTSB.

 

[BLing]

A flap failure by itself is not an emergency, if the only runway is questionable such as braking action, etc. maybe so.

If your company mandates it to be an emergency, so be it.

It's not that big of a deal, I've had a few myself, no biggie.

Well, when Vapp Flaps zero (depending on weight) is about the same as Vtire it is a big deal, especially at high altitude airports. You are right, in a giant 172 it is no biggie. But in the CRJ or any other jet it usually is a biggie!

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Or.. how about this.. Crew had a no-flap. Captain wanted to declare an emergency. Trucks rolled out. Airplane landed. Trucks rolled back in. No big deal.

Or... alternately... Crew had a no-flap. Captain decided not to declare an emergency. Airplane landed and blew a tire then went off the runway. Very big deal.

I swear, next time I think I need to take a dump I'm gonna come on here and post a question asking for technique, seeing as how everybody is such an expert.

Nice job SKW crew. Enough said. You'd think this place was airliners.net.

 

[Bako Cap]

BFL shut down for 15 minutes?? That must have created havoc throughout the Golden Empire. Oh NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess it might have confused a bunch of those IFTA students though and then it would be an emergency.

 

[HelloNewman]

Really? Our company considers it an emergency and so does every other 121 carrier I know of. It is an abnormal landing on the CRJ, and depending on weight, it can be very close to max tire speed. You should always declare an emergency with a flap failure so that CFR is standing by in case of tire burst, brake overheat, or running off the end of the runway.

yet another paranoid scardie cat. A flap failure is NOT an emergency. In fact in training we were taught is not an emergency unless combined with other failures. Sheesh too many people live in fear.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

yet another paranoid scardie cat. A flap failure is NOT an emergency. In fact in training we were taught is not an emergency unless combined with other failures. Sheesh too many people live in fear.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the next Darwin Awards candidate. Flaps 0 Vref in the neighborhood of 180 kts with maximium tire speed of 182 knots GROUND SPEED (compute that one, genius). But, it must be ok because training taught you it wasn't an emergency. Since you chronically undervalue your job with your posts here, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you minimize importance of the flight crew's judgement when it comes to abnormal or emergency situations in the airplane. After all, we're all just overpaid bus drivers, right? First of all, I hope you're not a Captain. Secondly, I hope the SKW training department is sharp enough to weed you out when you go through upgrade. Then again, I have serious doubts that you're actually a pilot at all. Which is it? Disgruntled dispatcher? Angry ramper? PO'ed gate agent? Or...worse...arrogant, young, know it all F/O who constantly marvels at how much smarter he is than the Captains he flies with. If you're the latter, just remember that nobody will EVER fault you for erring on the side of caution in this business. Then again, I don't particularly like you, so have at it cowboy. Maybe if you're lucky, you'll only kill yourself one day instead of a planeload of passengers.

I really really hope you're some management guy who comes on here to stir the pot. I'd hate to think a professional pilot would be as stupid as you seem to be.

 

[twinbeech]

Too many of you people have never flown anything other than students and passengers. I know you had to have plenty of experience to get hired because your logbook read 253 hours.

Are you serious??? If landing 10 knots fast on a 10000' runway with flaps 30 is something you need to roll the trucks for then you need to take a leave of absence for a testicular reassignment. (No offense to you ladies with balls, just the pilot puppy mill types of all genders to which I am referring.) I am not saying that a flaps fail at 0 in Aspen is not a big deal, but come on!!! Are you a pilot, or are you a boxed in and scared little puppy!