Centurion Cargo

[HA25]

You know what... On second thoughts I take back all I've said.

ALL ACMI is crap bottom feeder.. World, Atlas, Gemini, all..

Unions are only for Godless commies...

Upstarts are all great, and they have no moral reason to pay anymore than anyone is willing to work for.

And You are all right, and I'm wrong... and frankly I'm also board of repeating myself.

 

[FearlessFreep]

V70T5:

Good for you! I love spirited conversation!

I am quite focused. It's just not in the same dog pack manner that you are. That's your choice it's just not mine. No insult is intended, it's just a statement of different personalities and methodologies.

Here let me help you: http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...39&Ta bid=181

Don't need your assistance, and certainly didn't ask for it. I would never follow an ALPA link, thanks for not renaming it.

As far as the conservative/liberal/socialistic stance, you are just echoing what the masses are currently saying, it's not if your a Democrat or Republican - it's the issues that matter. Now the difficult thing is getting a consensus on them.

V70T5, Good chatting with you. Not going to agree with you though, and nothing that you say will change that, period.

Bellerophon:

I cannot say that I know all the historical details of UPS acquisitions and how they were affected. I can tell you that there was more than just Challenge. Orion was another one and I believe that they had a union, Custom, Ryan and a myriad of other companies after flying UPS freight were also given the short shrift and some of them were union as well if I remember correctly. The thing is that if a union is not willing to treat all people with respect & dignity, let them be given the opportunity to have a job with decent renumeration, and not be bounced out because of the union's conceit of exclusivity has serious issues. Seniority list integration is another issue and is another quagmire entirely, but not being considered at all is pretty low and certainly does not incite support or good will from those being so discriminated. As far as being a pilot at any company that might be acquired by UPS, you can kiss your job goodbye - it's not a possibility, it's a fact. Otherwise for the most part from my understanding if you are a member of the IPA their support is unwavering. Good for them.

Whistlin' Dan:

Thanks for your insight. I have heard UPS horror stories as well. Nothing in the airline industry is all that great anymore. The days of wine & roses is long in the past, though at times looking from one side of the fence to the other it might not appear that way.

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[rotor&wing]

Every single UPS pilot, from the newest new-hire to the #1 guy on the seniority list, owes that guy a great big kiss on the lips every payday, because without him, they'd all be flying MD-11's for $125/hr instead of $216, and there would be no job security beyond their next landing, wherever that might be. Trust me, I was there..

I don't think so Dan.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

ALPA have been a disaster for organized labor showing more interest in preserving a piece of Washington's political pie over the security and career advancement of their dues paying members. Their adroitness at dodging management sidewinders from 6 o'clock has demonstrably been less than stellar.

Remember Emery? It's astonishing that any current flight crew member could be so naive as to support this shower of self-serving reptiles. Union: an unqualified Yes; ALPA: a most definite No. There are much better options. Any union is only as strong as its membership wants it to be, which is why Centurion is probably a hopeless case.

 

[B737Dvr]

V70T5, please dont go, we like you!!!!!!!

lol, you are on one side of this convo against people with softer means, and you capitulate and "get tired of repeating yourself".......we win we win!!!!

just kidding man, dont go, because its due to you that this thread went from 1 page with a couple of responses to 4 with 40ish......you may not have won support, but you did draw interest in and now alot more people have come to read about how crappy this cargo airline is, and that is why i can appreciate what you try to advocate even if it is 1 foot forward then 2 feet back....

try 2ft forward and 1ft back and you wont have to repeat yourself more!!!!
lol!!!!!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

ALL ACMI is crap bottom feeder.. World, Atlas, Gemini, all..

Unions are only for Godless commies...

Upstarts are all great, and they have no moral reason to pay anymore than anyone is willing to work for.

Let me make it clear that the PEOPLE who work ACMI carriers aren't crap. For all the hoopla that surrounds the hiring (and remuneration) of pilots at the Big Two, ACMI pilots are a pretty professional group. I doubt that any substantive, quantitative differences in job performance could be drawn between the pilots of say, "FedEx" and whatever "bottom feeder" ACMI organization they might be compared to. The ACMI pilots are simply workers who, in a society where the welfare of the middle class is being subordinated to lower-cost (and often undocumented) workers and "outsourcing" (both domestic and foreign), have been "caught in the open."

My only concerns with the unions,and this applies to all of them, are that 1) they're spending too much time and money fighting battles on the local level that really need to be fought in Washington, D.C., (see my post above concerning McArtor and the need to make airlines real, as opposed to "virtual," companies), and; 2) that we tend to put too much emphasis on longevity when negotiating pay rates. Compensation scales based on the economic theories of Popeye's sidekick "Wimpy" ("I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today") simly don't work when, like Wimpy, many companies simply aren't around "next Tuesday."

As a side note...Air cargo, or more specifically, "overnight express" is booming right now. This is a happy time to be in this business. The biggest players are growing and making money (DHL isn't, but that's only because of their arrogance and gross mismanagement). Some of that money, of course, trickles down to the ACMI carriers. As King Neptune could tell you, "crabs do well, when they're not trying to be sharks."

But what happens when that growth stops?

My guess is that the pilots of both Brown and Purple will allow increased outsourcing in exchange for short-term income growth and promises of job security, in much the same way as the Legacy carriers "grew" their regional affiliates (with mainline ALPA's blessing) in the 90's.

Will we see guys "stalled" for 15 or more years in the right seat at the branded carriers, while the ACMI carriers are promoting to the left seat in 2-3 years? It's not out of the realm of possibility.

The Chinese have an old saying..."May you live in interesting times."

It's a curse...

 

[HA25]

Here, I think this is a great link to end this thread on..

http://www.avjobs.com/salaries-wages-pay/index.asp

Now, you all take turns.. what's wrong with this picture? (hint, look at the average column).

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Riiiiiight.....

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I don't even know where to start.. I'm at a loss for words.

We would really wish that were the case....

Oh by the way, during what is sure to be a VERY short loss, could you please employ a spell checker? You know for just the basic things like...
"PEARS" would that be 'PEERS'?
"LOOSE" might that be 'LOSE'?
"BOARD" possibly may be 'BORED'?

You might want help filling out those international flight plans and things...
Good luck Fog....

 

[HA25]

We would really wish that were the case....

Oh by the way, during what is sure to be a VERY short loss, could you please employ a spell checker? You know for just the basic things like...
"PEARS" would that be 'PEERS'?
"LOOSE" might that be 'LOSE'?
"BOARD" possibly may be 'BORED'?

You might want help filling out those international flight plans and things...
Good luck Fog....

From my favorite Jet Blue "bar raising" pilot..

Resorting to substantive debating points I see.... Well, since English is a 2nd language and I can speak 3 others .. I have nothing to feel bad about with regards to my spelling.. I do my best, and I've gotten by for 25+ years in this country with it. But thanks for your concern.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

From my favorite Jet Blue "bar raising" pilot..

OH my!! Your favorite??? I quiver...

Resorting to substantive debating points I see.... Well, since English is a 2nd language and I can speak 3 others .. I have nothing to feel bad about with regards to my spelling.. I do my best, and I've gotten by for 25+ years in this country with it. But thanks for your concern.

You've "gotten by" for 25 yrs? Really, amazing. English is actually the 1st language in this country. If you can't call it your 'first' maybe you should move back to 'the old country'...

"I'll just bet you're the pride of your department"

 

[HA25]

You've "gotten by" for 25 yrs? Really, amazing. English is actually the 1st language in this country. If you can't call it your 'first' maybe you should move back to 'the old country'...

"I'll just bet you're the pride of your department"

You've just exposed the racist, bigot you are .. so I learned english as a second language .. CLEARLY I SPEAK IT AS MY FIRST LANGUAGE NOW.. Yet, I need to go back to my country?

My father was a 40 year veteran of the US State Dept, and I was born on a US Birth Certificate abroad and learned the native language of the place my dad was assigned while I was growing up as we didn't have the benefit of American schools. I picked up English in 3rd grade and have since lost any accent, but I miss spell a couple of words and you show your closed minded, racist, bigoted nature.. the veil has been lifted.

I served in the first Gulf war and received an award for my service in a theater of war, and you want to tell me to shove off and go back to "my" country because I spell some words wrong?

Your a piece of work... I hope you feel as stupid as your last post.

 

[B737Dvr]

You've "gotten by" for 25 yrs? Really, amazing. English is actually the 1st language in this country. If you can't call it your 'first' maybe you should move back to 'the old country'...

"I'll just bet you're the pride of your department"

Ok, i also take offense to the above and relegate you to the levels of poor ol ignorant poster. V70T5 was actually trying to tell you that English is HIS second language (as it is also mine) and not what it is in the USA.

I also cant call it my first, and fyi I had a green card for many years until i actually started flying steady and then became a citizen and got my american passport......move back to the old country?....lol.......why?

are you threatened by the fact that someone was able to come to this country learn a new language, customs, traditions and not only survive but do well.

I dont agree with V70T5 on certain points, but i stand with him as a fellow pilot who also learned english second.

you know what?....before i go allow me to point out the lunacy of your position. telling someone to go back to the old country as if you are originally from here is only a perogative that native americans OWN. unless you are a desendant of a tribe, you my friend can join us and go back to the old country......

 

[CSY Mon]

Aah relax gent's.
Take anything that pops up here with a grain of salt:

I am from the old country as well and English sure as hell was not the first language that rolled of my tongue.

Can't say I got offended by the above posting however, nor can I call the guy a racist or bigot either....

In fact, I don't care if some red-neck tells me to go back, my forefathers discoverd this place some 1000 years ago and I claim seniority....

North America: A Norwegian Colony since 1014 AD.

 

[B737Dvr]

Aah relax gent's.
Take anything that pops up here with a grain of salt:

North America: A Norwegian Colony since 1014 AD.

aaahhhhhh, i dont know about that......i think the caveman from the Geico commercials can claim dibs if you want to go back THAT far!!!

lol.....no hard offense taken, if it was me, i laugh first, but when it's others i kinda lean forward a bit......

csy, hope you like our coffee....its the best in the world!

 

[CSY Mon]

i think the caveman from the Geico commercials can claim dibs if you want to go back THAT far!!!

Well, the caveman from the Geico commercials is really an Neanderthal, primitive German...He never made it over the pond.

The Indians came over first, on the land bridge from Asia to Alaska before it closed.
So, them guys are really the only ones that can invite ya to go home if ya don't speak their language..
(They also have the best reason)

Uh, back to the topic, Centurion Cargo was it?
And the question was, who is the more scum-bag and bottom feeding non-sced carrier?

I'd vote for Tradewinds Airlines. The CEO is even proud of it.

 

[Junkflyer]

But Connie and Del are trying to beat him!

 

[CSY Mon]

But Connie and Del are trying to beat him!

They need to try harder, the Tradewinds crews do a lot of charity work these days, as dictated by the boss.
Most of us just roll over and ask him to do it again.

 

[metrodriver]

Mister volvo (v70..): first of all: welcome to gemini. I see you got hired to the Gucci side of the house, go to the other side and it gives you a bit more of a bottom dweller feel. The only reason you got a job here now is that quite a lot of folks have quit after 51% of the pilots voted in a major pay cut after some stupid treats from management. Negotiating a new contract while in bankruptcy, what a concept. One of the treats was that the DC10's were going to be leased to others if we didn't accept this contract. Guess what? Less than a year later 2 or 3 planes will be parked (summer 07) as a D-check is too expensive and there is no DC10 work available (why are Arrow, Avient, Das Air, Cargo Italia and a few others looking to buy DC10's? -Das Air lost a few of them in a sale of the lease company, beyond the control of Das air). It would not surprise me to see those airframes flying shortly after gemini removes the from the fleet in a bit different color scheme. What this parking of those -10's will mean though is that there will be furloughs, and since you are one of the last ones in the door, you'll be the first one out. Dulles seems to have some marvellous cool-aid that they feed new hires, you seem to be drinking it with buckets at a time. New airframes are being looked at. So do I every time I'm at an airport somewhere. It takes about 3 month for a conversion, a year (longer if it is a popular type) to build a new plane. Until Gemini signs a check and quits looking at airframes, your days are numbered. Hope you haven't burned any bridges yet. And when you get on the line: good luck getting a hold of crew scheduling, travel or even dispatch. The cut backs in personnel in those departments has left one person on duty to do the work of 3. Like a real bottom feeder would do. By having done this there are decisions being made that are so costly, the money that can be saved could pay the extra staff, and would have easily supported the old pay standards. You are now working a wide body for slightly better than regional airline pay. Except the regional character spans a few continents that you will cross during your 18 days away from home and family.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts in say a year or two, three

 

[HA25]

Mister volvo (v70..): first of all: welcome to gemini. I see you got hired to the Gucci side of the house, go to the other side and it gives you a bit more of a bottom dweller feel. The only reason you got a job here now is that quite a lot of folks have quit after 51% of the pilots voted in a major pay cut after some stupid treats from management. Negotiating a new contract while in bankruptcy, what a concept. One of the treats was that the DC10's were going to be leased to others if we didn't accept this contract. Guess what? Less than a year later 2 or 3 planes will be parked (summer 07) as a D-check is too expensive and there is no DC10 work available (why are Arrow, Avient, Das Air, Cargo Italia and a few others looking to buy DC10's? -Das Air lost a few of them in a sale of the lease company, beyond the control of Das air). It would not surprise me to see those airframes flying shortly after gemini removes the from the fleet in a bit different color scheme. What this parking of those -10's will mean though is that there will be furloughs, and since you are one of the last ones in the door, you'll be the first one out. Dulles seems to have some marvellous cool-aid that they feed new hires, you seem to be drinking it with buckets at a time. New airframes are being looked at. So do I every time I'm at an airport somewhere. It takes about 3 month for a conversion, a year (longer if it is a popular type) to build a new plane. Until Gemini signs a check and quits looking at airframes, your days are numbered. Hope you haven't burned any bridges yet. And when you get on the line: good luck getting a hold of crew scheduling, travel or even dispatch. The cut backs in personnel in those departments has left one person on duty to do the work of 3. Like a real bottom feeder would do. By having done this there are decisions being made that are so costly, the money that can be saved could pay the extra staff, and would have easily supported the old pay standards. You are now working a wide body for slightly better than regional airline pay. Except the regional character spans a few continents that you will cross during your 18 days away from home and family.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts in say a year or two, three

Well, I'll hold off on the heavy debate until i've got more time there then.

In the meantime, here is my logic... from what I can see, the company is only trying to compete with the competition.. and if the competition is paying peanuts, don't expect much better. I spoke with a couple of your senior captains that felt that if they held off on the vote, the mediators would have come in and dropped it even lower.. based on what Centurion, and others are paying that is a likely hood.

The DC-10's are going to go.. they simply aren't efficient enough to compete for the good contract that's Gemini is after. I think with the new (STRONG) financial backing of Bayside (and their generous credit line offer) when we find new replacements for the DC's (could be 744, 777F, or more MD's).. Those will be added to the fleet. CLEARLY, the company isn't in business to go out of business, and CLEARLY the investor (one of the world premier PE's) isn't going to invest the kind of money into them to fail either.

Hang tight, and look me up in 2 years or so.. (about how long I thin it will be before things are good).. and after 2 years, we'll be close to the Aug '09 date.. if you're still there, I look forward to working with you to get the contract to where it should be.

Now, I've got to go spend some quality time with my family before I deploy for training for the next 50-60 days.