Hawker 800

[G4G5]

Talk to me guys. From those that fly it, or have in the past. What are the pros and cons? I have ZERO experience with any of the Hawker products, so no pearl of wisdom is too small.

I get the feeling that sometime in the near future I may become intimately familiar with one. Mgt has decided to place a $10 mill limit on a new(aka used) aircraft and the 800 seems to be the one of choice (some what open to other suggestions). We are looking at a Honeywell FMS version (so the FMS matches our Gulfstream) so that puts me in the pre 2001 market. Any advantages or disadvantages with the Honeywell vs the Collins?

What's the truth about the range. Ny to the West coast? At what speeds?

Now that Ratheon has beens sold, any guesses as to what will happen to product support.

Thanks.

 

[Hawker800]

For 10mil. go with the Hawker 800XP instead of the 800. You will love to fly it once you get used to the rams horn yoke. Weak point is the baggage space unless you can find one that has rear area and it does not have external baggage door. Very comfortable, forgiving machine. 430-440 kts. Somedays NY to the west coast if VFR destination. West to east no sweat usually. Have fun!

 

[G100driver]

For 10mil. go with the Hawker 800XP instead of the 800. You will love to fly it once you get used to the rams horn yoke. Weak point is the baggage space unless you can find one that has rear area and it does not have external baggage door. Very comfortable, forgiving machine. 430-440 kts. Somedays NY to the west coast if VFR destination. West to east no sweat usually. Have fun!

Lets not get carried away here ... you are talking to a guy who is currently flying a G5 ...

He will NOT love flying it ... He WILL call it a POS ... and he WILL complain about every trip he is FORCED to take in it.

I mean no disrespect to G4G5 as in all of his posts he seems like a decent guy. But once you have been drinking 25 year old scotch you are not going to enjoying drinking MadDog.

 

[G4G5]

We are looking at the 800xp

Not interest in drinking any "MadDog" but I do have a couple of thousand hours flying one. Talk about a POS buts that's for another thread.

Life is what it is, if my boss wants a Hawker, so be it. The way I see it I have two choices, so I might as well go into it with a positive attitude. Don't get me wrong, I love flying my G5 but my landlord doesn't give a rats as if I fly a G5 or a C152 as long as the check clears by the 15th of the month. My kids don't care what I fly as long as theirs food on the table and the TV works when they hit the ON switch on the remote.

I might as well get a head start on the inevitable. Looking for the things the salesmen doesn't tell you.

 

[C-5 MEM]

G4G5,

I have been flying the 800XP for over a year now. The jet is a great flying aircraft. Hand flying is great and it handles very well. Coming out ot the G-V to the 800XP is no problem.
If you get the jet do you know where you will do the intial?

TV

 

[GIVSP]

If I remember right .63 LRC to make west coast. Normal cruise .75.

 

[G4G5]

G4G5,

I have been flying the 800XP for over a year now. The jet is a great flying aircraft. Hand flying is great and it handles very well. Coming out ot the G-V to the 800XP is no problem.
If you get the jet do you know where you will do the intial?

TV

Thanks TV,

I had heard the rumors but it looks like the rumors will become a reality. The boss is getting serious and what I am really concerned about is a salesmen telling us, " sure it can do XXX, when in fact it can't" Not having a frame of reference as to the aircrafts true capabilities places me at a disadvantage when dealing with these vultures.
PB

 

[Blackjet]

If I remember right .63 LRC to make west coast. Normal cruise .75.

WAYYYYYYYY too slow. LRC is typically .70M. Any slower and your efficiency goes right out the window.
Also, it's typically a FL350/360 aicraft until you burn off some fuel. EXCELLENT landing performance. With the use of T/Rs and lift dump, it will litterally smoke the book numbers.
If runway lengths are typically not an issue, you might consider a nicer late model LJ60.
As previously mentioned, baggage will be an issue. You can take 6 guy out on a golfing trip, but you had better not need a change of clothes. Most swept wing jets you can go down or slow down, but you can't do both. Pull the levers to the idle stop and this pig will slow right away. It is a nice airplane to fly and there are really no take off items that will kill you. Loose an engine at V1 and you can take your feet off the pedals and put them flat on the floor. Cabin goes Tango Uniform on the way to Hawaii? No problem. Open the flight Deck Heat Valve and continue on. Sure, you'll get hot as 2 dogs humpin', but everybody lives. Plenty of redundancy and safety features, but it slow and forgiving. All in all, It's pretty slick.

 

[southernpilot]

Arinc gives these numbers, KRIC to KLAX.

COMPUTED 1241Z FOR ETD 1300Z PROGS 280600Z

FUEL TIME DIST ARRIVE TAKEOFF LAND AV PLD OPNLWT
DEST KLAX 008099 05:12 2032 1812Z 026771 018672 000900 016272
RESV 001500 01:03
ALTN 000000 00:00 0000 0000Z
HOLD 000000 00:00
REQD 009599 06:15 ES ZFW MX ZFW
TAXI 000150 17172 18450
XTRA 000000 00:00
TOTL 9749 06:15

KRIC YEAST1 MOL J24 HVQ J78 IIU J112 BUM J110 ALS J44 RSK J64 PGS
MITTS2 KLAX

WIND M029 MXSH 8/RSK AVG WIND 260/ 31
TAS 424 FL 400
I have played that game with matching FMS's, don't let that tail wag this dog. Take what ever nice airframe is out there. Collins is a nice set though. There will be plenty of support though. It is a bit strange though that your boss wants to go from a G5 to a Hawkersourus?!?!

 

[G4G5]

It's a second aircraft, that will be used by the VP's to bounce around the greater 48.

What advantages does the Collins offer over the Honeywell?
What would typical cruise speed be on a NY to Dallas Flight?

 

[g4800xp]

Go with the XP if you can, 800/XP don't do anything great, but they do everything really good. Built like a brick. It is easy to go from the G4 to the 800 and back. Both are honest airplanes and the honeywell is simple. I always found travel time east to west about the same, nonstop at lrc or fast and a fuel stop. The trade off was less hobbs time and @ 400 gallons more fuel burn but plenty of reserves( sfo/mry/ unannounced fog etc..). @ 6 hours hobbs with hi speed, @ 7 hours lrc. Before anybody has a fit and starts throwing fire bombs at me, it has been a few years since I flew the 800 out west but we had crews try both and these are the numbers stuck in my head.

 

[Swass]

G4G5 - you have a PM

 

[hawkerflyer]

Second year of flying a 1985 Part 91 800A with winglets over a thousand hours. Have yet to make an unscheduled fuel stop including TEB/BLM/MJX/MPV back to SDL always landing with at least 1500 lbs regardless of season. SDL-ANC-SDL is routine for us with the same numbers. That being said, speed & baggage limitations may make other aircraft look more attractive.

 

[G4G5]

Second year of flying a 1985 Part 91 800A with winglets over a thousand hours. Have yet to make an unscheduled fuel stop including TEB/BLM/MJX/MPV back to SDL always landing with at least 1500 lbs regardless of season. SDL-ANC-SDL is routine for us with the same numbers. That being said, speed & baggage limitations may make other aircraft look more attractive.

Was the winglet mod worth it? Cost, added performance, downtime?

 

[jagmagic]

I have ben flying the 800xp for over a year now and have not once maid NY to the west cost , it is not going to do it with a good fuel reserve. We climb at .70 and cruise at .75 and long range at .63. We have the proline 21 and I love it. We also have a g4 that the guys fly both and are happy with the Hawker coming from the G4. We have made Vanc-to-HPN no stop with about 1800 lbs of fuel. The airplane it a great airplane to fly. Some of the draw backs are the baggage and the range on it. If you can get the collins then get it, the cockpit looks alot cleaner and the system is so easy to use.

 

[Blackjet]

I have ben flying the 800xp for over a year now and have not once maid NY to the west cost , it is not going to do it with a good fuel reserve. We climb at .70 and cruise at .75 and long range at .63. We have the proline 21 and I love it. We also have a g4 that the guys fly both and are happy with the Hawker coming from the G4. We have made Vanc-to-HPN no stop with about 1800 lbs of fuel. The airplane it a great airplane to fly. Some of the draw backs are the baggage and the range on it. If you can get the collins then get it, the cockpit looks alot cleaner and the system is so easy to use.

The reason you ar enot making the Left Coast is your profiles are off.
Climb: 280/.68
Cruise: Constant .70M
The PERF DATA should show you that .63 is too slow if you know how to use it to that extent.

 

[nerdpilot]

Honeywell is total crap and the xp's autopilot is the only one in the world I can actually fly better than. Seats are very uncomfortable especially after about and hour and a half and if the boss doesnt mind strapping bags on his exspensive seats......luggage will usually always find a legal way of getting on board. East to west coast is very unlikely but from New York to Dallas should be no problem even at .78. Overall a very easy airplane to fly, easy type rating and good reliability. Typical no Balls Raytheon product but it is an old mans airplane.

 

[G100driver]

The reason you ar enot making the Left Coast is your profiles are off.
Climb: 280/.68
Cruise: Constant .70M
The PERF DATA should show you that .63 is too slow if you know how to use it to that extent.

What is your typical reserve going into VNY or SFO from the east coast?

 

[jagmagic]

The reason you ar enot making the Left Coast is your profiles are off.
Climb: 280/.68
Cruise: Constant .70M
The PERF DATA should show you that .63 is too slow if you know how to use it to that extent.

I am sorry I ment that not in cruise but in climb!!

 

[GIVSP]

Take the GIV if you need to go to the west coast. Simple.