SLC-PIT in CRJ-900

[homerjdispatch]

The stupidest thing I've ever heard of, I know you have to do it, we've done it at ASA from DFW to the west coast b/4 and so has Jetblue on a trans con, but still not fair to the pax. We are after all about customer service. Maybe if you can't sell a full plane then you shouldn't in the winter.

I agree that it's not fair to the passengers, but neither is leaving them behind because our "major partner" thinks its better to put RJ's on the city pair. Its not like we do it on every leg. Most of the time its not an issue.

Each flight is looked at on a case by case basis. I only know of 2 times we have had to fuel stop YYZ-SLC since we started the service. Both times, we thought it was better customer service by fuel stopping, than bumping passengers.

 

[RJAA]

The stupidest thing I've ever heard of, I know you have to do it, we've done it at ASA from DFW to the west coast b/4 and so has Jetblue on a trans con, but still not fair to the pax. We are after all about customer service. Maybe if you can't sell a full plane then you shouldn't in the winter.

The big D does not care. They sell them out anyways. During the earlier days of ATL-EYW-ATL on 70-seaters they would put a cap in reservation for 64 pax just so we could get it off the groud in 32C with min fuel with TS all over the place to FL400 but there were always like 72 revenue waiting to get on anyways! It was meaningless. Not sure what it is like now.

 

[Tomct]

Definately too far and too long in an RJ!!! 2 hours MAX and I am ready to open a can of WOOP ARSE!!!

 

[Foxcow]

Ouch, I only have about a 2.5 hour ass.

 

[007]

Congrats on that B-scale Delta Airlines.....

 

[RJidiot]

What a terrible decision by DL. That is entirely too long to sit in the back of an RJ. I had to DH a few weeks back on a 90 minute flight and it was horribly uncomfortable experience. If I was a business traveler I wouldn't do it again.

 

[crashpad]

Just another example of how transparent and selfish the Delta pilot group is. They voted in the scope, brought the company to chapter 11, and pi$$ on their customers....all while whining like spoiled little girls.
They still have a "one offline jumpseater only" policy and arrogantly expect to ride on your plane if there's an open seat. It's good to know pilots are sticking together now and denying them rides.
Just let the Gate Agent know you'll be taking one DL jumpseater if it's open and they'll scramble to get the policy changed faster than you can scream; "Mommy, I want that!".

 

[Minimaniac]

The big D does not care. They sell them out anyways. During the earlier days of ATL-EYW-ATL on 70-seaters they would put a cap in reservation for 64 pax just so we could get it off the groud in 32C with min fuel with TS all over the place to FL400 but there were always like 72 revenue waiting to get on anyways! It was meaningless. Not sure what it is like now.

72 pax, all the bags, 32 degrees C, enough gas, maximum thrust reduction possible out of EYW... go 170!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Ever ridden on a 1500 mile flight in coach on a Maddog? Or a 737-800? Or a 757 for that matter? Point is it's gonna be miserable in coach on any narrow body airplane. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to RJs, just a new opportunity to bash RJs and RJ pilots.

I still don't understand the sense of entitlement pilots seem to have over routes. The reason nearly every major airline is bankrupt is the notion that they need to fly "to anywhere from everywhere". Partially empty airplanes don't make money. If you can't fill your smallest airplane on a particular route your choices are either abandon the route to your competition, or contract it out to a FFD carrier on smaller equipment.

The -900 has first class to my knowledge. If a passenger can't stand a three hour flight in coach, then they should pony up just like they do in a "mainline" aircraft. This is not a problem unique to RJs.

 

[Crizz]

I don't understand what the fuss is all about. Ever ridden on a 1500 mile flight in coach on a Maddog? Or a 737-800? Or a 757 for that matter? Point is it's gonna be miserable in coach on any narrow body airplane. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to RJs, just a new opportunity to bash RJs and RJ pilots.

I still don't understand the sense of entitlement pilots seem to have over routes. The reason nearly every major airline is bankrupt is the notion that they need to fly "to anywhere from everywhere". Partially empty airplanes don't make money. If you can't fill your smallest airplane on a particular route your choices are either abandon the route to your competition, or contract it out to a FFD carrier on smaller equipment.

The -900 has first class to my knowledge. If a passenger can't stand a three hour flight in coach, then they should pony up just like they do in a "mainline" aircraft. This is not a problem unique to RJs.

Bingo! In many cases I'd rather ride in a 900 (with 70 seats) than a 757-300 in row 48B.

I'm still waiting for this to turn into a Skywest bashfest.

 

[BlackPilot628]

While I understand you points about the CRJ's. I think that a B738 and a MD88's seats are wider than the CRJ's. .......and yes I have sat in a middle seat on a B738 from SMF-ATL.

 

[Bluto]

Um, nope. Check it out:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_MD-88.php

seat pitch is almost identical and the -700/-900 have .5 more inches of seat-width.

 

[Tarzan]

Bingo! In many cases I'd rather ride in a 900 (with 70 seats) than a 757-300 in row 48B.

I'm still waiting for this to turn into a Skywest bashfest.

Well let me Git R Dun then!



SkyWest pilots eat their children!!

Before anyone goes and cries in the milk, that was only a joke. I only know of a few OO pilots that have eaten their kids. It's not the majority of them though.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Um, nope. Check it out:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_MD-88.php

seat pitch is almost identical and the -700/-900 have .5 more inches of seat-width.

What they need to measure is seat cushion height though. The CRJs definitely have thin seats. And the exit row on the CRJ-200's are actually worse than any other row. Same seat pitch and thinner seat cushions than any other row! Now the exit row on the CRJ-700 has tons of leg room.

 

[JohnnyP]

It's good to know pilots are sticking together now and denying them rides.

Yea, that'll show 'em.......?....

 

[Av8rPHX]

Exit row 16 on Mesa 900s were great. Lots of legroom and they reclined.

 

[Muppets]

Nobody is bashing the CRJ here...the bottom line is that route is WAY to far for that aircaft. Seriously, they are fuel stopping it in winter!!?? Come on! That fact alone means it is too long for the CRJ. Oh yeah, and the douch who said the RJ is a replacement airplane should be shot....try a replacement payscale..end of story. Paying pax should not have to stop in Kansas City or wherever just to get that jet and their crew home.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

asdrghse

 

[Muppets]

Im refering to what homerjdispatch was saying....the fact that he/she seems to be a dispatcher and YES probably knows more than me in regards to this route.....bottom line is this is a mainline route, I dont understand how this is even an arguement...that plane, the pay, and the fact that pax dont matter is killing the industry. They are going to f$#ing fuelstop the flight!!! What a joke.

 

[SSDD]

Im refering to what homerjdispatch was saying....the fact that he/she seems to be a dispatcher and YES probably knows more than me in regards to this route.....bottom line is this is a mainline route, I dont understand how this is even an arguement...that plane, the pay, and the fact that pax dont matter is killing the industry. They are going to f$#ing fuelstop the flight!!! What a joke.

So you're saying that Delta is a mismanaged airline? That their marketing dept has no idea what they're doing? That they abuse their passengers? That DALPA has given up a lot of ground with regards to scope? You may want to bring that up to their attention.

BTW this is hardly news. Regionals for most majors have been doing 1,300-1,400 mile legs for quite some time.

YYC-IAH
SLC-YYZ(Jazz)
BOI-IAH
SLC-CMH
DEN-CLT or RDU
SFO-SAT

Just to name a few.

 

[sweptback]

There are a bunch of routes that the regionals do that they should not... for example anything hub-to-hub, or between large markets. However, something like SLC-PIT is the kind of market that regionals should be doing. It's a long and thin route, and right now it probably only supports a flight once or twice a day. Delta is doing this to test the market -- if enough people support the flight then next year you'll probably see a MD-88 on it.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

There are a bunch of routes that the regionals do that they should not... for example anything hub-to-hub, or between large markets. However, something like SLC-PIT is the kind of market that regionals should be doing. It's a long and thin route, and right now it probably only supports a flight once or twice a day. Delta is doing this to test the market -- if enough people support the flight then next year you'll probably see a MD-88 on it.

I agree with you on all points except the MD-88 part. That plane has about the same range as a CRJ-900. Probably MD-90 or 737-800.

 

[Morning Wood]

The stupidest thing I've ever heard of, I know you have to do it, we've done it at ASA from DFW to the west coast b/4 and so has Jetblue on a trans con, but still not fair to the pax. We are after all about customer service. Maybe if you can't sell a full plane then you shouldn't in the winter.

TWA used to stop their STL-ONT and STL-PSP flights in PHX all the time in the winter. Seems like I heard something about DL's MD80's having to stop somewhere too when they were doing ATL-PHX.

 

[Morning Wood]

Im refering to what homerjdispatch was saying....the fact that he/she seems to be a dispatcher and YES probably knows more than me in regards to this route.....bottom line is this is a mainline route, I dont understand how this is even an arguement...that plane, the pay, and the fact that pax dont matter is killing the industry. They are going to f$#ing fuelstop the flight!!! What a joke.

I think the marketing and scheduling people have blurred the distinction of what is and isn't an appropriate route for an RJ (regardless of the model). They pick two cities pairs and just decide what airplane should fly it based on seats and not airplane capability. The fuel stop is something Flt Control has to do to make things work. 4:13 YYZ-SLC is a joke and obviously can't be done when the wind or destination forecast is bad.

 

[MECH]

This isn't just an RJ issue. I think every marketing department does this. They see that the a/c can do it so they put it on the route. Even if it will beyond the a/c abilities when things go wrong. At Continental it used to be MD-80's on the IAH-SEA route. Now it is 737-800 from ANC-IAH or 757-200 from Oslo or Berlin to Newark.

 

[SSDD]

Site has been cancelled!

 

[Speedtape]

There are a bunch of routes that the regionals do that they should not... for example anything hub-to-hub, or between large markets. However, something like SLC-PIT is the kind of market that regionals should be doing. It's a long and thin route, and right now it probably only supports a flight once or twice a day. Delta is doing this to test the market -- if enough people support the flight then next year you'll probably see a MD-88 on it.

Bingo! Develop the route and if more seats are needed, replace it with a bigger plane. With the 76 seater, there will not have to be as many seats discounted as compared to an MD90.

In regard to range, the CR9 should have no problem with that leg! After all, it is an 86 seat airplane that will have only 76 seats max.

 

[RJAA]

BTW this is hardly news. Regionals for most majors have been doing 1,300-1,400 mile legs for quite some time.

Except PIT-SLC is over 1600 NM. So is YYZ-SLC. ASA had/has STX-ATL that was also over 1600NM...at that point you maybe up against the tank capacity of the airplane depending on the fuel requirement for the particular flight. It has been a while since I worked on CRJ products but as far as I can remember, CRJ900/700 have the same tank capacity and also over the Caribbean you rarely see the seasonal 100 plus kts headwind right on the nose going westbound like you would over the U.S.

 

[General Lee]

TWA used to stop their STL-ONT and STL-PSP flights in PHX all the time in the winter. Seems like I heard something about DL's MD80's having to stop somewhere too when they were doing ATL-PHX.

OKC and ELP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Speedtape]

Except PIT-SLC is over 1600 NM. So is YYZ-SLC. ASA had/has STX-ATL that was also over 1600NM...at that point you maybe up against the tank capacity of the airplane depending on the fuel requirement for the particular flight. It has been a while since I worked on CRJ products but as far as I can remember, CRJ900/700 have the same tank capacity and also over the Caribbean you rarely see the seasonal 100 plus kts headwind right on the nose going westbound like you would over the U.S.

I am not sure about the same tank capacity regarding the CR7 versus the CR9. However, the MTOW's are different which would allow the CR9 to carry more fuel in those same tanks. I would speculate that it is rare that the CR7 tanks are filled to capacity due to max payloads and restrictions on MTOW.