JetBlue to adjust E190 pay

[Tref]

The worst thing about the JB rates for the EMB are that they were the first US carrier to post the rates and they set the bar really low. After that, every carrier used that as the competitive market rate.

 

[Truckdriver]

The worst thing about the JB rates for the EMB are that they were the first US carrier to post the rates and they set the bar really low. After that, every carrier used that as the competitive market rate.

And the reason JB posted such low rates was because SkyWest had rates on paper that would allow them to fly the E190 for 50-seat wages. This happned about a year before JB posted 190 rates. JB 190 rates are significantly higher than the 99-seat rate was at SKYW. Don't say that the SKYW rate didn't effect what JB management felt was an industry average 100-seat rate.

 

[Truckdriver]

...But less than a year 2 SWA FO!! In fact, they make less than a SWA FO all the way up to year 11 (not counting premium pay).


Glug Glug Glug.

Come on man, don't bring SWA into this because it will make us all sick! They make more than widebody legacy pilots for now.

 

[Lear70]

Man, you guys are some negative people for a THANKSgiving holiday...

I'm thankful I live in a free country where I can take my skills to different employers if I choose, then have the right to negotiate (either through Collective Bargaining or through general griping, complaining, and quitting) for a higher salary.

I'm thankful for the THOUSANDS of men and women in our armed forces fighting in foreign countries to not only ensure our continued way of life, but to try to bring it to others.

I'm thankful for the ability to note have to work my first Thanksgiving at my new employer.

I'm thankful for my family and their support when, first thing the next morning, I have to go to work.

I'm thankful for my health and the ability to fly. At all.

Just a thought, but maybe you guys need to back up a step and not immediately jump all over someone on a holiday that we are supposed to be giving THANKS for the things we DO have.

Jeez...

 

[Longhorn]

Lear,
I know you were thankful and all, which is great, but thanksgiving was yesterday.

 

[LandGreen]

Come on man, don't bring SWA into this because it will make us all sick! They make more than widebody legacy pilots for now.

EXACTLY!! I remember back in the late 90's and early 00's when all the legacy's were bashing SWA because THEY were dragging the wages down...NOW they are leading the pack. It has always been like this in aviation history...

A good lesson for the newbies in this industry...never throw stones in glass houses. We all live in glass houses in the aviation industry!

 

[MD80DRVR]

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help. How many airlines out there have management approach its employee group to say we deserve a pay adjustment upward? This adjustment also includes some backpay:

E190 Captains and First Officers will each receive a pay adjustment equal to five hours of premium pay for each month they were qualified on the aircraft between June and December 2006 and $250 for each month of E190 service between the same months. An E190 compensation adjustment is also being finalized and it will be announced in early-mid December.

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I honestly don't understand why you would even post this here?? What is your agenda. Keep it on our private site, or do you like to just fuel the fire?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

JetBlue management must have spent time crunching the numbers and figured out it is cheaper to pay more per hour than spend Big $$ training newbies when the pay is too low. JetBlue doesn't want to become a "training" airline. Which I predicted would happen very soon without this kind of action.

I don't flame JetBlue, so don't think I am doing it now. Just making sure you'all understand the reason for the pay increase.

 

[Snoopy Mendoza]

The base rates have not been adjusted, yet.

This is a one time bonus.

:beer:

 

[FDJ2]

I need something positive from you or the General or I'm pulling the thread!

Any pay raise is a good pay raise.

How's that for positive?

Seriously, that's good news. I'm happy for you guys at JBLU. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

 

[General Lee]

I agree. It is a good step and deserved. So, if you guys would just quit with the transcon turn thing, we all would be really happy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[curtaindriver]

General, I think it has been dead in the water for a while now. I also believe you know that.

CD

 

[Spectre]

I honestly don't understand why you would even post this here?? What is your agenda. Keep it on our private site, or do you like to just fuel the fire?

Why does everything have to be a SECRET? There's nothing wrong with posting some good news for a change. Anyway, I don't use that "private site" because it's filled with too many people like you...

 

[regionaltard]

Time will tell but if and when things do improve pay wise, I expect your apology will be forth coming.

How long can you hold your breath?

The fact of the matter is, pilots willing to work for less than the going rates or under less safe conditions have been the scourge of this industry since the days we were arguing with management about putting turn coordinators in biplanes. It doesn't matter if your pay improves; the damage is already done.

 

[Vingus]

How long can you hold your breath?

The fact of the matter is, pilots willing to work for less than the going rates or under less safe conditions have been the scourge of this industry since the days we were arguing with management about putting turn coordinators in biplanes. It doesn't matter if your pay improves; the damage is already done.

Now I see where you get your name, RETARD. Where have you been for the last five years...under a rock? You can talk all you want to about pilots willing to work for substandard wages...BTW, how much do you make, Mr. Regional?

All the good paying jobs have gone away since 911 (with the exception of Fedex and SWA). And getting a job there is not automatic. Even the legacy guys will tell you that. Pilot pay isn't what it used to be. Hopefully, as the airline industry continues to recover, we will get back some of those losses.

So what would you tell a furloughed dude or just out of the military guy to his face? "Oh, just work at Home Depot until the legacies recover. Don't work for a dime less than a 777 pilot!" What a joke, having that much pride doesn't put food on the table or pay the rent. Maybe you are just some pimple faced kid right out of the flight academies and sitting in the left seat of your regional thinking that your sh!t doesn't stink, and you are living with mommy and daddy or maybe five other regional dudes in a crash pad. The rest of us real men have families to look after!

BTW, I'd love to compare my year 2 pay with yours anyday. And I don't consider my job to be unsafe.

Keep throwing the rocks kid. One day, you will grow up and get it.

 

[80for80]

Now I see where you get your name, RETARD. Where have you been for the last five years...under a rock? You can talk all you want to about pilots willing to work for substandard wages...BTW, how much do you make, Mr. Regional?

All the good paying jobs have gone away since 911 (with the exception of Fedex and SWA). And getting a job there is not automatic. Even the legacy guys will tell you that. Pilot pay isn't what it used to be. Hopefully, as the airline industry continues to recover, we will get back some of those losses.

So what would you tell a furloughed dude or just out of the military guy to his face? "Oh, just work at Home Depot until the legacies recover. Don't work for a dime less than a 777 pilot!" What a joke, having that much pride doesn't put food on the table or pay the rent. Maybe you are just some pimple faced kid right out of the flight academies and sitting in the left seat of your regional thinking that your sh!t doesn't stink, and you are living with mommy and daddy or maybe five other regional dudes in a crash pad. The rest of us real men have families to look after!

BTW, I'd love to compare my year 2 pay with yours anyday. And I don't consider my job to be unsafe.

Keep throwing the rocks kid. One day, you will grow up and get it.

How about comparing it with mine?

 

[Vingus]

How about comparing it with mine?

I'm not talking to you. Go back to your hole!

 

[Truckdriver]

How about comparing it with mine?

Looking at your profile, I would guess you are at Eagle. If you are on the jet then you would be making $32/hr. If your not at Eagle, throw out some numbers. If your at FedEx, UPS, or SWA, don't waste your time the numbers will make us all sick!

 

[brainhurts]

How long can you hold your breath?

The fact of the matter is, pilots willing to work for less than the going rates or under less safe conditions have been the scourge of this industry since the days we were arguing with management about putting turn coordinators in biplanes. It doesn't matter if your pay improves; the damage is already done.

The damage is done Regionalturd? And you are not somehow to blame with your regional rates? Regionals had nothing to do with the fall of the legacies? Up yours.

 

[IB6 UB9]

How long can you hold your breath?

The fact of the matter is, pilots willing to work for less than the going rates or under less safe conditions have been the scourge of this industry since the days we were arguing with management about putting turn coordinators in biplanes. It doesn't matter if your pay improves; the damage is already done.

Coming from you that's pretty funny. Did you come up with that on your own or is this just another mindnumbing example of plagarism. BTW, what are the going rates as you say? And the unsafe conditions? Elaborate.

 

[IB6 UB9]

How about comparing it with mine?

Let's compare with yours then. Post the numbers.

 

[Snoopy Mendoza]

The damage is done Regionalturd? And you are not somehow to blame with your regional rates? Regionals had nothing to do with the fall of the legacies? Up yours.

You are correct regional’s had nothing to do with legacy pilots negotiating scope in exchange for other contract enhancements.

If regional airlines caused the fall of the legacy carrier then it all started with the legacy carriers allowing regional airlines to fly their code.

In this case it was the chicken before the egg.

No Scope = No feeder airline to blame for the fall of the legacy.

:beer:

 

[climb2slow]

So...has the hourly pay rate for the 190 been permanately raised? That is what really needs to happen. It is great that they have "bonused" the 190 guys to give them what they should have had to start with, but it would appear that there is no guarantee that this will happen again. I would imagine that if JB loses money next year, these "adjusements" won't be happening.....what really needs to happen is a permanent adjustment to rates. If i missed that part of the announcement, then i sit corrected.

 

[zkmayo]

So...has the hourly pay rate for the 190 been permanately raised? That is what really needs to happen. It is great that they have "bonused" the 190 guys to give them what they should have had to start with, but it would appear that there is no guarantee that this will happen again. I would imagine that if JB loses money next year, these "adjusements" won't be happening.....what really needs to happen is a permanent adjustment to rates. If i missed that part of the announcement, then i sit corrected.

new rates supposed to be announced in dec for jan enactment. mgmt has forecasted that jb should make 200mil pretax in 07. we shall see...

good luck to all

 

[regionaltard]

The damage is done Regionalturd? And you are not somehow to blame with your regional rates? Regionals had nothing to do with the fall of the legacies? Up yours.

Nope, that problem came to be in the mid-90's when one mainline pilot group and the union that represented it came up with the novel idea of airline pilots as second-class citizens. What's followed has been largely due to pilots falling over one another in their eagerness to embrace that identity. DALPA didn't understand that their actions would have repercussions far beyond the boundaries of their little corner of the industry, nor apparently do you. Maybe this will make it a bit clearer to you.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the whole "it's different when we do it because we're Jet Blue, the darlings of the industry" line of reasoning. Trust me, y'all aren't really that cute.

As for "regional rates" I think it's already been pointed out that there are 70 seat turboprop pilots making more across the board than the "mainline" JB 190 drivers flying more than twice the ASM's. Call me crazy, but maybe instead of me pointing that out to you, couldn't you have pointed that out to your management? Wait, let me answer that; No, because you don't have a voice! Sure, you can sing along and harmonize, but there will always be enough five year anniversaries from here on out to make it child's play to cut a couple of uppity pilots out of the herd if the natives get too restless. That means that an industry currently being driven from the bottom is in the hands of the avatar of management's wet dream for the last 50 years; a pilot group grasped firmly by the short hairs. The fact that you might choose to say "it tickles" might make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything.

So what would you tell a furloughed dude or just out of the military guy to his face? "Oh, just work at Home Depot until the legacies recover. Don't work for a dime less than a 777 pilot!" What a joke, having that much pride doesn't put food on the table or pay the rent.

I'm not sure how we got from my contention that some yet-to-be defined increase in JB's 190 rates will at best make them slightly less pathetic to "Don't work for a dime less than a 777 pilot!" The only dimes in play here are the ones you'll find in the seat cushions while you're in the back turning the jet.

I support anyone's right do do what he thinks is best for himself and his family. Since you brought it up though, I think it only fair to point out the countless times during the history of this industry when pilots faced with decisions far more gut-wrenching than whether or not to seek out a job with absurdly low pay have made the state of the industry they would return to and their place in the community of professional pilots a top consideration. I guess that file just failed to load when you clicked on your airline career.

All the good paying jobs have gone away since 911 (with the exception of Fedex and SWA). And getting a job there is not automatic. Even the legacy guys will tell you that. Pilot pay isn't what it used to be. Hopefully, as the airline industry continues to recover, we will get back some of those losses.

Oh right, all the good jobs have just "gone away" without a big helping hand from pilots? Why would the industry provide good jobs when we've proven that we're satisfied with $hitty ones?

How long can you hold your breath?

The fact of the matter is, pilots willing to work for less than the going rates or under less safe conditions have been the scourge of this industry since the days we were arguing with management about putting turn coordinators in biplanes. It doesn't matter if your pay improves; the damage is already done.

Coming from you that's pretty funny. Did you come up with that on your own or is this just another mindnumbing example of plagarism. BTW, what are the going rates as you say? And the unsafe conditions? Elaborate.

Ya mean my prose sounds like that fancy store-bought stuff? I'll take that as a compliment. Now here's some advice. If you're going to use big words without understanding what they mean you really should at least know how to spell them. Unless you're trying to prove that you didn't plagiarize plagarize of course.

Are you suggesting that JB's 190 rates can be derived in some logical fashion from existing payscales at other mainline carriers? Do tell. Are you suggesting that trans-con turns don't further erode an already thin margin of safety with regard to flight and duty time? Don't even bother trotting out Rosekind's junk science in support of that one; been to the seminar, got the T shirt. As far as I'm concerned he's proven himself to be the Randy Babbitt of fatigue research. I suppose that next you're going to tell me that those moronic five year employment contracts don't represent a virtually complete dismantling of industry-standard job security protections.

Yes the rates are low, but your comparison still isn't fair. There will never be a 9 year CA on the 190 at JB unless they don't want to upgrade on the 320. What is the most junior CRJ-700 CA and most junior Q400 CA at QX. I'll bet it's close to 8 years on the 700 and 5 years on the 400 if not a little higher. Anyone with that kind of seniority at B6 is an A320 CA. The reason why the 190 rates were low was because they assumed FO's would only bear the low pay for a year and that CA's would only be on the plane for their two year lock before going back to the 320 as Captains.

There. You've made my point. Do you have any idea how many pilots have raised families and retired comfortably from the left seats of FK 28s, DC-9s and 737s? JB has taken what used to be a career position and turned it into a throwaway job.

The tragicomic irony of you guys arguing against my assertion that you should be earning more has obviously gone ZING.....right over your heads. Not so with the airline fat cat in his club who will light a big stogie, order another single malt, turn to his neighbor with glass raised and a satisfied grin and say "truly, these are the best of times."

There's really no point in arguing this further; the current trends in the industry make it clear that you and your ilk have already won......not to mention the fact that it feels like you guys are absolutely wrecking my hands with your faces.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

First of all, no one in this company's nearly 7 year history has been let go at the five year contract anniversary... Let's add this up, ZERO, NADDA, ZIP. Now, as far as I've seen this year, not many pilot groups have seen a raise of any sorts. In fact, more givebacks continue, today Mesaba just gave in to a TA of 15% pay reduction-- OK, so if you're at a regional and taking pay-cuts, that's really gotta suck... SOOOO, any pay raise in this industry, should be taken in good light-- enough of your JBLU bashing guys, take it for what it is, just darn old good news for a change...

 

[MD80DRVR]

enough of your JBLU bashing guys, take it for what it is, just darn old good news for a change...

That would take maturity..... throwing stones to get a reaction is much more fun.

 

[clickclickboom]

Nope, that problem came to be in the mid-90's when one mainline pilot group and the union that represented it came up with the novel idea of airline pilots as second-class citizens. What's followed has been largely due to pilots falling over one another in their eagerness to embrace that identity. DALPA didn't understand that their actions would have repercussions far beyond the boundaries of their little corner of the industry, nor apparently do you. Maybe this will make it a bit clearer to you.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the whole "it's different when we do it because we're Jet Blue, the darlings of the industry" line of reasoning. Trust me, y'all aren't really that cute.

As for "regional rates" I think it's already been pointed out that there are 70 seat turboprop pilots making more across the board than the "mainline" JB 190 drivers flying more than twice the ASM's. Call me crazy, but maybe instead of me pointing that out to you, couldn't you have pointed that out to your management? Wait, let me answer that; No, because you don't have a voice! Sure, you can sing along and harmonize, but there will always be enough five year anniversaries from here on out to make it child's play to cut a couple of uppity pilots out of the herd if the natives get too restless. That means that an industry currently being driven from the bottom is in the hands of the avatar of management's wet dream for the last 50 years; a pilot group grasped firmly by the short hairs. The fact that you might choose to say "it tickles" might make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything.



I'm not sure how we got from my contention that some yet-to-be defined increase in JB's 190 rates will at best make them slightly less pathetic to "Don't work for a dime less than a 777 pilot!" The only dimes in play here are the ones you'll find in the seat cushions while you're in the back turning the jet.

I support anyone's right do do what he thinks is best for himself and his family. Since you brought it up though, I think it only fair to point out the countless times during the history of this industry when pilots faced with decisions far more gut-wrenching than whether or not to seek out a job with absurdly low pay have made the state of the industry they would return to and their place in the community of professional pilots a top consideration. I guess that file just failed to load when you clicked on your airline career.



Oh right, all the good jobs have just "gone away" without a big helping hand from pilots? Why would the industry provide good jobs when we've proven that we're satisfied with $hitty ones?



Ya mean my prose sounds like that fancy store-bought stuff? I'll take that as a compliment. Now here's some advice. If you're going to use big words without understanding what they mean you really should at least know how to spell them. Unless you're trying to prove that you didn't plagiarize plagarize of course.

Are you suggesting that JB's 190 rates can be derived in some logical fashion from existing payscales at other mainline carriers? Do tell. Are you suggesting that trans-con turns don't further erode an already thin margin of safety with regard to flight and duty time? Don't even bother trotting out Rosekind's junk science in support of that one; been to the seminar, got the T shirt. As far as I'm concerned he's proven himself to be the Randy Babbitt of fatigue research. I suppose that next you're going to tell me that those moronic five year employment contracts don't represent a virtually complete dismantling of industry-standard job security protections.



There. You've made my point. Do you have any idea how many pilots have raised families and retired comfortably from the left seats of FK 28s, DC-9s and 737s? JB has taken what used to be a career position and turned it into a throwaway job.

The tragicomic irony of you guys arguing against my assertion that you should be earning more has obviously gone ZING.....right over your heads. Not so with the airline fat cat in his club who will light a big stogie, order another single malt, turn to his neighbor with glass raised and a satisfied grin and say "truly, these are the best of times."

There's really no point in arguing this further; the current trends in the industry make it clear that you and your ilk have already won......not to mention the fact that it feels like you guys are absolutely wrecking my hands with your faces.

Holy crap and to think that this guy actually sat on his layover quoting a dozen posts thinking up retalitory responses and then taking the time to type these long winded responses call it what you want but i would rather cross a few seatbelts and toss some headsets in the garbage.

Maybe you should just type something like: I love my 50 seat jet that just bumped 8 people because we are weight restricted. I am happy I dont have to fly your 100 seat mainline jet for more than i make at my current job. Good luck to you at jetblue that do.

Or you could just download some free porn rub one out and save yourself about 8 hours a day that you must be wasting posting on flightinfo

 

[jbvt]

Holy crap and to think that this guy actually sat on his layover quoting a dozen posts thinking up retalitory responses and then taking the time to type these long winded responses call it what you want but i would rather cross a few seatbelts and toss some headsets in the garbage.

Maybe you should just type something like: I love my 50 seat jet that just bumped 8 people because we are weight restricted. I am happy I dont have to fly your 100 seat mainline jet for more than i make at my current job. Good luck to you at jetblue that do.

Or you could just download some free porn rub one out and save yourself about 8 hours a day that you must be wasting posting on flightinfo

Classic! and true

 

[www.]

They pay you 60% of what you should be getting even in these depressed times and give you back even as much as 20% (not holding my breath, btw), you're still down 20% any way you look at it.

And this comes from a Skywest pilot that flys 70 seaters for a 50 seat rate?