JetBlue to adjust E190 pay

[Spectre]

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help. How many airlines out there have management approach its employee group to say we deserve a pay adjustment upward? This adjustment also includes some backpay:

E190 Captains and First Officers will each receive a pay adjustment equal to five hours of premium pay for each month they were qualified on the aircraft between June and December 2006 and $250 for each month of E190 service between the same months. An E190 compensation adjustment is also being finalized and it will be announced in early-mid December.

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[michael707767]

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

nope, no negative from me. In fact, it supports something I have said all along. Better to get the airplane on property now and worry about the pay rates later. I don't have any problem with the current E-190 rates at Delta or USAirways. Once the airplane is there, the rates can be worked on later. You can never fix the rate on an airplane someone else is flying.

 

[General Lee]

Are you sure the pay increase wasn't tied to the E190s doing nonstop transcon turns at night? Only allnighters, with mostly cargo (livestock) onboard? That is what I have heard.... Happy Thanksgiving!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GCAP]

Are you sure the pay increase wasn't tied to the E190s doing nonstop transcon turns at night? Only allnighters, with mostly cargo (livestock) onboard? That is what I have heard.... Happy Thanksgiving!


Bye Bye--General Lee

For your piece of "the claim" and 'the note" you would fly for free and perform any sexual favors they (the JB pilots )desire. You should keep your mouth shut.

 

[General Lee]

For your piece of "the claim" and 'the note" you would fly for free and perform any sexual favors they (the JB pilots )desire. You should keep your mouth shut.

Wow, you can't take a joke. You really sound dumb now. You are nuts.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

They pay you 60% of what you should be getting even in these depressed times and give you back even as much as 20% (not holding my breath, btw), you're still down 20% any way you look at it.

 

[IB6 UB9]

They pay you 60% of what you should be getting even in these depressed times and give you back even as much as 20% (not holding my breath, btw), you're still down 20% any way you look at it.

I need something positive from you or the General or I'm pulling the thread!

 

[dojetdriver]

They pay you 60% of what you should be getting even in these depressed times and give you back even as much as 20% (not holding my breath, btw), you're still down 20% any way you look at it.

You're right. They are really taking it in the shorts by being paid 60% of what they should. Because as we all know, the majors/lagacies are getting paid 100% of what they desreve or had before being bent over.

 

[FlyAuburn]

This is the second time this year we have received a "190 bonus." Both times was a significant amount of money for first year pay anywhere. Of course, there will always be complainers. It is what it is.

 

[B6Driver]

They pay you 60% of what you should be getting even in these depressed times and give you back even as much as 20% (not holding my breath, btw), you're still down 20% any way you look at it.

The fact remains that what you think and say matters very little if at all.
Time will tell but if and when things do improve pay wise, I expect your apology will be forth coming.

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

michael707767 said it best, my opinion its a start and a least its moving forward and not back, and the flying is in house- not a regional

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I guess the pay all comes down to the lowest denominator doesn't it? Hmmm wonder who those people are or should I say were.

 

[Lear70]

michael707767 said it best, my opinion its a start and a least its moving forward and not back, and the flying is in house- not a regional

It's pretty funny you should mention that. My buddy who works there regularly delineates the difference between the two by calling the Airbus side of the house "mainline".

I think it's great they're finally addressing this. Good for you guys and I agree, I still don't think JB needs a union - the company still does the right thing for the employees 90% of the time from what I hear and read.

As long as they're doing that, I don't see the need for change. Hope the rates are something that you guys like and can live with long-term, as the upgrade or transition times for guys hired from now going forward will be in the right seat on the 190 for a good while.

 

[RP 04]

What's the big news..., a bunch of cabin cleaners getting a raise.. Stupid me, I thought this was an aviation board.

 

[Diesel-9]

I thought JetBlue was a regional. The Major airline regional operations are 2-4 times bigger.

 

[ualdriver]

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help. How many airlines out there have management approach its employee group to say we deserve a pay adjustment upward? This adjustment also includes some backpay:

E190 Captains and First Officers will each receive a pay adjustment equal to five hours of premium pay for each month they were qualified on the aircraft between June and December 2006 and $250 for each month of E190 service between the same months. An E190 compensation adjustment is also being finalized and it will be announced in early-mid December.

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I'm assuming premium pay is time and a half? (i.e. the pay you get over 70 hours?). $72/hr base pay E190 Captain 2nd year?

Normal 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $76.50/hr (based on $72/hr)
"Bonus" 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $86.38/hr (assuming above "bonuses" math shown below, premium time = time*1.5?)

Normal 80 hour month = ((72*70)+[(72*1.5)*10])= $6120/80 = $76.50/hr.
Bonus 80 hour month = $6120 + [((5*1.5)*72)+250] = $6910/80 = $86.38/hr

Feel free to check my math! So you temporarily get about $86.38/hour as a 2nd year Captain of a 25 million dollar, 100 seat jet. What is the final hourly rate expected to be in mid December?

 

[TriStar_drvr]

So the pay rate is still low, but so is mine. At least JetBlue is moving in the right direction.

Happy Thankgiving.

 

[J32driver]

Feel free to check my math!

No need to check your math because everyone is thinking about this too hard.

JetBlue is essentially writing these guys a check worth about $3,000 each and saying "thanks for your patience and stand by for the real raise to be announced in a couple of weeks".

Thats it, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

So the pay rate is still low, but so is mine. At least JetBlue is moving in the right direction.

Happy Thankgiving.

Are you still at ATA?

 

[roadrunnerblue]

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help. How many airlines out there have management approach its employee group to say we deserve a pay adjustment upward? This adjustment also includes some backpay:

E190 Captains and First Officers will each receive a pay adjustment equal to five hours of premium pay for each month they were qualified on the aircraft between June and December 2006 and $250 for each month of E190 service between the same months. An E190 compensation adjustment is also being finalized and it will be announced in early-mid December.

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

OK, nice for the 190 guys and they deserve it.

But let's not forget, that this raise is the direct result of the JB pilots complaining about it for months on their own website. Managment reads those postings as well and are merely responding to an steadily deteriorating mood among the JB pilots.

Barger at the inception of the 190 program clearly stated that they (mgmt.) would pay what the market would bare. JB already lost 60 or so pilots this year and many from the 190 ranks. Every 190 Capt. leaving results in a trickle down effect of approx. $50000 in training costs.

Gentlemen it is clearly a financial decision brought about by pressure from the JB pilots, no mgmt. benevolence! Just like was the case when the first pay raise occurred in 2001. Then there was a massive exodus for the majors that were hiring at that time.

If they think that a raise is necessary now, why did they not start off with the current scales? All BS!

 

[Spectre]

I'm assuming premium pay is time and a half? (i.e. the pay you get over 70 hours?). $72/hr base pay E190 Captain 2nd year?

Normal 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $76.50/hr (based on $72/hr)
"Bonus" 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $86.38/hr (assuming above "bonuses" math shown below, premium time = time*1.5?)

Normal 80 hour month = ((72*70)+[(72*1.5)*10])= $6120/80 = $76.50/hr.
Bonus 80 hour month = $6120 + [((5*1.5)*72)+250] = $6910/80 = $86.38/hr

Feel free to check my math! So you temporarily get about $86.38/hour as a 2nd year Captain of a 25 million dollar, 100 seat jet. What is the final hourly rate expected to be in mid December?

Myself, I'd never do math in public. Anyway, if your math is correct, then JB E190 Captains in their second year at JetBlue will make more than a 5 year E190 Captain at USAir and more than a 8 year E190 Captain at Chautauqua. http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/us_airways.html

I guess we'll all find out in a few weeks. The back pay is still a mighty nice Christmas bonus.

 

[Spectre]

OK, nice for the 190 guys and they deserve it.

But let's not forget, that this raise is the direct result of the JB pilots complaining about it for months on their own website. Managment reads those postings as well and are merely responding to an steadily deteriorating mood among the JB pilots.

Barger at the inception of the 190 program clearly stated that they (mgmt.) would pay what the market would bare. JB already lost 60 or so pilots this year and many from the 190 ranks. Every 190 Capt. leaving results in a trickle down effect of approx. $50000 in training costs.

Gentlemen it is clearly a financial decision brought about by pressure from the JB pilots, no mgmt. benevolence! Just like was the case when the first pay raise occurred in 2001. Then there was a massive exodus for the majors that were hiring at that time.

If they think that a raise is necessary now, why did they not start off with the current scales? All BS!

Umm, I think you have the timing a little off on the raise in 2001. After 9/11, I don't think there were many JB pilots leaving for the legacies. The raises came after 9/11 which is something management didn't have to do. So if management only makes decisions for financial reasons, you think you would have had a 30% pay raise with back pay after 9/11?

JetBlue management is smart. You don't start off with the current scale in the E190 because it is easier to give a raise than to ask for pay cuts...

 

[gt1900]

Not to stir the pot.. But just to remind you... JB's 190 rates are gonna have to come up a lot to become even close to Horizon's CRJ-700 pay rates of over $120 per hour.. $85 per hour to fly a 100 seat airplane is an absolute joke when you can fly for a commuter for over $40,000 a year more with 30 less seats.. BTW.. This isn't a bash, I hope JB guys on the 190 get a huge pay raise.. But, they have a long way to go on the 190... Good luck JB guys..

 

[curtaindriver]

Not to stir the pot.. But just to remind you... JB's 190 rates are gonna have to come up a lot to become even close to Horizon's CRJ-700 pay rates of over $120 per hour.. $85 per hour to fly a 100 seat airplane is an absolute joke when you can fly for a commuter for over $40,000 a year more with 30 less seats.. BTW.. This isn't a bash, I hope JB guys on the 190 get a huge pay raise.. But, they have a long way to go on the 190... Good luck JB guys..

Understanding obviously that our pay is low, your comparison is slightly misleading. That pay for Horizon is an 18 year captain. Which, Horizon has. Our most senior captain on the 190 is 3 years. I upgraded in 12 months. But, we definietely have to get our pay up.

CD

 

[gt1900]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

 

[Truckdriver]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

Yes the rates are low, but your comparison still isn't fair. There will never be a 9 year CA on the 190 at JB unless they don't want to upgrade on the 320. What is the most junior CRJ-700 CA and most junior Q400 CA at QX. I'll bet it's close to 8 years on the 700 and 5 years on the 400 if not a little higher. Anyone with that kind of seniority at B6 is an A320 CA. The reason why the 190 rates were low was because they assumed FO's would only bear the low pay for a year and that CA's would only be on the plane for their two year lock before going back to the 320 as Captains. Theoretically making the most senior 190 CA getting paid 4th year pay. That is not happening hence the pressure to raise rates. Not defending the rates, just shedding light on the fact that there was some reasoning behind the low 190 rates. So far there hasn't been an FO that hasn't upgraded in under 16 months. And just so you know, I think Horizon is the best paying place out there as far as pay goes on jets 100 seats or less. Hopefully the race to the bottom won't effect you as it has almost every other carrier out there that flies small jets.

 

[JBPA]

Myself, I'd never do math in public. Anyway, if your math is correct, then JB E190 Captains in their second year at JetBlue will make more than a 5 year E190 Captain at USAir and more than a 8 year E190 Captain at Chautauqua.

...But less than a year 2 SWA FO!! In fact, they make less than a SWA FO all the way up to year 11 (not counting premium pay).


Glug Glug Glug.

 

[n25na]

Yes the rates are low, but your comparison still isn't fair. There will never be a 9 year CA on the 190 at JB unless they don't want to upgrade on the 320. .

never say never....

 

[IB6 UB9]

Just like was the case when the first pay raise occurred in 2001. Then there was a massive exodus for the majors that were hiring at that time.

Are you sure? I was furloughed in the time frame you are talking about...I don't recall a lot of hiring...please quote your source.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

And it's still off because JB pilots get 1.5 times pay exceeding 70 hours. So if that were true, the JB equivelent pilot now makes more than your comparisons, and hopefully, will significantly exceed your payscale with their raise in December.