JetBlue to adjust E190 pay

[jimcav]

Its really simple what needs to be done. Take a look at FL payrates which were negotiated over 5 years ago when we still had dc-9-30s on the property. Those birds had 105 seats and the e190 has 100. How about something comparable to that. At least it would be start.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Owned!

Holy crap and to think that this guy actually sat on his layover quoting a dozen posts thinking up retalitory responses and then taking the time to type these long winded responses call it what you want but i would rather cross a few seatbelts and toss some headsets in the garbage.

Maybe you should just type something like: I love my 50 seat jet that just bumped 8 people because we are weight restricted. I am happy I dont have to fly your 100 seat mainline jet for more than i make at my current job. Good luck to you at jetblue that do.

Or you could just download some free porn rub one out and save yourself about 8 hours a day that you must be wasting posting on flightinfo

Nothing like a good verbal whooping... especially when its spot on and righteous. Nice work CCB.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Holy crap and to think that this guy actually sat on his layover quoting a dozen posts thinking up retalitory responses and then taking the time to type these long winded responses call it what you want but i would rather cross a few seatbelts and toss some headsets in the garbage.

Maybe you should just type something like: I love my 50 seat jet that just bumped 8 people because we are weight restricted. I am happy I dont have to fly your 100 seat mainline jet for more than i make at my current job. Good luck to you at jetblue that do.

Or you could just download some free porn rub one out and save yourself about 8 hours a day that you must be wasting posting on flightinfo

Bravo!

 

[Oh-ryan]

A little off topic (though not as far off as some of the posts I've seen on this thread)... Why didn't jetBlue go with the A319 when they were looking for a smaller market airframe. I know that the seating capacity is about 30 people more than the E190, but the dimensions/performance of the A319 airframe is similar to that of the E190.

My simpleminded non-MBA approach seems to think that the A319 would have made more economical sense (same type rating + similar avionics and other systems = less $$ needed for pilot/mechanic training and GSE). I am sure that some 100 pound heads did the number crunching and determined that despite all of the similarities that the E190 was better for the market. Just thought I would ask the question. Could the ASM be that much better for the E190 than it is for the A319 (for the desired market) that it overrides the savings from having an all Airbus fleet? The answer is probably quite obvious, but not to this knuckle dragger.

 

[ualdriver]

A little off topic (though not as far off as some of the posts I've seen on this thread)... Why didn't jetBlue go with the A319 when they were looking for a smaller market airframe. I know that the seating capacity is about 30 people more than the E190, but the dimensions/performance of the A319 airframe is similar to that of the E190.

My simpleminded non-MBA approach seems to think that the A319 would have made more economical sense (same type rating + similar avionics and other systems = less $$ needed for pilot/mechanic training and GSE). I am sure that some 100 pound heads did the number crunching and determined that despite all of the similarities that the E190 was better for the market. Just thought I would ask the question. Could the ASM be that much better for the E190 than it is for the A319 (for the desired market) that it overrides the savings from having an all Airbus fleet? The answer is probably quite obvious, but not to this knuckle dragger.

For a 500nm segment, the E190/195 with a 32" pitch has direct operating costs SIGNIFICANTLY lower than an A318/A319 with 32" pitch- somewhere around 20-30% less. Further, their pilot group is essentially flying a 737/DC-9 sized aircraft for what essentially are 50-70 seat RJ wages, another tremendous savings from an operating cost standpoint. Had JetBlue purchased an A318, for example, it is highly unlikely they would have been able to convince the pilot group to fly such a jet for much less than their current A320 wages as they did with the E190. Just those two points alone account for significant decreases in operating costs when comparing the E190 series to a A318/319 type aircraft.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

For a 500nm segment, the E190/195 with a 32" pitch has direct operating costs SIGNIFICANTLY lower than an A318/A319 with 32" pitch- somewhere around 20-30% less. Further, their pilot group is essentially flying a 737/DC-9 sized aircraft for what essentially are 50-70 seat RJ wages, another tremendous savings from an operating cost standpoint. Had JetBlue purchased an A318, for example, it is highly unlikely they would have been able to convince the pilot group to fly such a jet for much less than their current A320 wages as they did with the E190. Just those two points alone account for significant decreases in operating costs when comparing the E190 series to a A318/319 type aircraft.

Most of what you said is probably true. I would bet the real reason is JB got the 190 is because "the boys from Brazil" gave the airplane away.

Just like the Airbus. Free mx, free parts, free gas, and free french wine and brie.

It's like beer...always better when it's free.

 

[brainhurts]

Holy crap and to think that this guy actually sat on his layover quoting a dozen posts thinking up retalitory responses and then taking the time to type these long winded responses call it what you want but i would rather cross a few seatbelts and toss some headsets in the garbage.

Maybe you should just type something like: I love my 50 seat jet that just bumped 8 people because we are weight restricted. I am happy I dont have to fly your 100 seat mainline jet for more than i make at my current job. Good luck to you at jetblue that do.

Or you could just download some free porn rub one out and save yourself about 8 hours a day that you must be wasting posting on flightinfo

Outstanding!!! Regionaltard is somehow missing the point. We are all responsible for the fall of this profession. He wants to deflect the criticism of his regional job where he lets his flight attendants wear the blue gloves and clean up the airplane (thus depriving union "cleaners" their due) while he sports his oversized Raybans on his walkaround, yet its time to bash JB because its non union.
We are all responsible for this downfall. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer are not slowing down production of airplanes. As older airplanes are replaced, startups get those old airplanes. The new airplanes are easy to fly allowing 20 year olds to get jet experience quick and left seat time quicker. With the reliability of the new airplanes, quick turns are the standard allowing 90-100 hour months. Lots of qualified pilots means we are not a commodity anymore. This allows the business types to use the phrase "pilots are a dime a dozen" (Doug Steenland--NWA)
Regionaltard, you took your regional job for what purpose? Are you telling me you never made the connection that your 50-70 seat jet was being used to whipsaw 100+ seat flying at your mainline? Did you not make the connection that you were actually competing for mainline flying? Of course you did but you said "Oh its just a little piece and eventually they will need a guy of my caliber at the mainlines so I'll just sit here with the big Raybans" and get older and older and getting more and more defensive. JB is also competing for that business just like you. How are you not part of the problem? Whatever regional you used to compare rates with at JB is insignificant. If you are using one temporary example at a regional you do not even work for to support your argument its like saying "sure my pay sucks here, but regionals don't suck because my buddies at Rayban air are making plenty" They will soon be under managements microscope and brought into line using the case histories that came before i.e. Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle, etc. For whatever reason, it is convienient for management to appease them at the moment--but that will change. Your fingerpointing at JB is pathetic.
Again, regionaltard takes no responsibilty for accepting low pages and poor work rules because he wants to get to a legacy--denying the fact that it was his own acceptance of the poor pay and work rules that started the lowering of the bar at the legacies--and he has the gall to point to ALPA as the cause. How unmanly. ALPA was the cause. RJs were the cause. Mainline pilots pushing for too much was the cause. LCC's were the cause. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer lowering their prices through competition was the cause. Startups using the old jets are the cause. For a fu<king rj guy to pontificate that JB is what caused the fall of the legacies is beyond the pale. I understand the dynamics of capitalism and do not hold anything against rj guys who are out doing the job they love, but lets stop the fingerpointing. JB is part of "the problem" in that the forces of capitalism created the LCC model at Southwest. The forces of capitalism created the RJ model at Comair. Other airlines started up to copy those models and here we are, you at a regional and I at JB. I am at JB because my legacy has been torn apart by the forces of capitalism. I was at this legacy for 8 years. I guess I could have done like you and gone to a regional, but why not? Because the pay and work rules suck. Regionaltard, I suggest you put in your app again at JB in 6 months.

 

[brainhurts]

A little off topic (though not as far off as some of the posts I've seen on this thread)... Why didn't jetBlue go with the A319 when they were looking for a smaller market airframe. I know that the seating capacity is about 30 people more than the E190, but the dimensions/performance of the A319 airframe is similar to that of the E190.

My simpleminded non-MBA approach seems to think that the A319 would have made more economical sense (same type rating + similar avionics and other systems = less $$ needed for pilot/mechanic training and GSE). I am sure that some 100 pound heads did the number crunching and determined that despite all of the similarities that the E190 was better for the market. Just thought I would ask the question. Could the ASM be that much better for the E190 than it is for the A319 (for the desired market) that it overrides the savings from having an all Airbus fleet? The answer is probably quite obvious, but not to this knuckle dragger.

Hey Oh-Ryan,
Is that your squadron patch on David Haselhorf's bananna boat?

 

[Oh-ryan]

Hey Oh-Ryan,
Is that your squadron patch on David Haselhorf's bananna boat?

No, we don't a have squadron patch yet... still working on that. A Bananna Boat theme is one of the options we are pursuing. My choice would be to get The Hoff, Ryan Secrest and Clay Aiken together for a photo and then have that photo converted into a squadron patch with some kind of catchy slogan like "If you're not metro, then you're not sexual".

Until a decision is made regarding this matter we will continue to do the only thing we can do for inspiration... stare at the perfectly preserved and hermetically sealed speciman of 3 strands of The Hoff's chest hair that we have on display in the wardroom.

I will keep you posted.

PS.
Stop staring at The Hoff's package.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

No, we don't a have squadron patch yet... still working on that. A Bananna Boat theme is one of the options we are pursuing. My choice would be to get The Hoff, Ryan Secrest and Clay Aiken together for a photo and then have that photo converted into a squadron patch with some kind of catchy slogan like "If you're not metro, then you're not sexual".

Until a decision is made regarding this matter we will continue to do the only thing we can do for inspiration... stare at the perfectly preserved and hermetically sealed speciman of 3 strands of The Hoff's chest hair that we have on display in the wardroom.

I will keep you posted.

PS.
Stop staring at The Hoff's package.

Must be a Navy thing...

Don't worry, the Hoff's package is all yours. We all know you have dibs before Brainhurts.

 

[brainhurts]

No, we don't a have squadron patch yet... still working on that. A Bananna Boat theme is one of the options we are pursuing. My choice would be to get The Hoff, Ryan Secrest and Clay Aiken together for a photo and then have that photo converted into a squadron patch with some kind of catchy slogan like "If you're not metro, then you're not sexual".

Until a decision is made regarding this matter we will continue to do the only thing we can do for inspiration... stare at the perfectly preserved and hermetically sealed speciman of 3 strands of The Hoff's chest hair that we have on display in the wardroom.

I will keep you posted.

PS.
Stop staring at The Hoff's package.

It's hideous--yet I can't look away.

 

[clickclickboom]

For a ******* rj guy to pontificate

Outstanding!!! Regionaltard is somehow missing the point. We are all responsible for the fall of this profession. He wants to deflect the criticism of his regional job where he lets his flight attendants wear the blue gloves and clean up the airplane (thus depriving union "cleaners" their due) while he sports his oversized Raybans on his walkaround, yet its time to bash JB because its non union.
We are all responsible for this downfall. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer are not slowing down production of airplanes. As older airplanes are replaced, startups get those old airplanes. The new airplanes are easy to fly allowing 20 year olds to get jet experience quick and left seat time quicker. With the reliability of the new airplanes, quick turns are the standard allowing 90-100 hour months. Lots of qualified pilots means we are not a commodity anymore. This allows the business types to use the phrase "pilots are a dime a dozen" (Doug Steenland--NWA)
Regionaltard, you took your regional job for what purpose? Are you telling me you never made the connection that your 50-70 seat jet was being used to whipsaw 100+ seat flying at your mainline? Did you not make the connection that you were actually competing for mainline flying? Of course you did but you said "Oh its just a little piece and eventually they will need a guy of my caliber at the mainlines so I'll just sit here with the big Raybans" and get older and older and getting more and more defensive. JB is also competing for that business just like you. How are you not part of the problem? Whatever regional you used to compare rates with at JB is insignificant. If you are using one temporary example at a regional you do not even work for to support your argument its like saying "sure my pay sucks here, but regionals don't suck because my buddies at Rayban air are making plenty" They will soon be under managements microscope and brought into line using the case histories that came before i.e. Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle, etc. For whatever reason, it is convienient for management to appease them at the moment--but that will change. Your fingerpointing at JB is pathetic.
Again, regionaltard takes no responsibilty for accepting low pages and poor work rules because he wants to get to a legacy--denying the fact that it was his own acceptance of the poor pay and work rules that started the lowering of the bar at the legacies--and he has the gall to point to ALPA as the cause. How unmanly. ALPA was the cause. RJs were the cause. Mainline pilots pushing for too much was the cause. LCC's were the cause. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer lowering their prices through competition was the cause. Startups using the old jets are the cause. For a fu<king rj guy to pontificate that JB is what caused the fall of the legacies is beyond the pale. I understand the dynamics of capitalism and do not hold anything against rj guys who are out doing the job they love, but lets stop the fingerpointing. JB is part of "the problem" in that the forces of capitalism created the LCC model at Southwest. The forces of capitalism created the RJ model at Comair. Other airlines started up to copy those models and here we are, you at a regional and I at JB. I am at JB because my legacy has been torn apart by the forces of capitalism. I was at this legacy for 8 years. I guess I could have done like you and gone to a regional, but why not? Because the pay and work rules suck. Regionaltard, I suggest you put in your app again at JB in 6 months.

HOLY *****

Here is the best part of your whole response above:

For a ******* rj guy to pontificate

 

[thruthemurk]

Outstanding!!! Regionaltard is somehow missing the point. We are all responsible for the fall of this profession. He wants to deflect the criticism of his regional job where he lets his flight attendants wear the blue gloves and clean up the airplane (thus depriving union "cleaners" their due) while he sports his oversized Raybans on his walkaround, yet its time to bash JB because its non union.
We are all responsible for this downfall. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer are not slowing down production of airplanes. As older airplanes are replaced, startups get those old airplanes. The new airplanes are easy to fly allowing 20 year olds to get jet experience quick and left seat time quicker. With the reliability of the new airplanes, quick turns are the standard allowing 90-100 hour months. Lots of qualified pilots means we are not a commodity anymore. This allows the business types to use the phrase "pilots are a dime a dozen" (Doug Steenland--NWA)
Regionaltard, you took your regional job for what purpose? Are you telling me you never made the connection that your 50-70 seat jet was being used to whipsaw 100+ seat flying at your mainline? Did you not make the connection that you were actually competing for mainline flying? Of course you did but you said "Oh its just a little piece and eventually they will need a guy of my caliber at the mainlines so I'll just sit here with the big Raybans" and get older and older and getting more and more defensive. JB is also competing for that business just like you. How are you not part of the problem? Whatever regional you used to compare rates with at JB is insignificant. If you are using one temporary example at a regional you do not even work for to support your argument its like saying "sure my pay sucks here, but regionals don't suck because my buddies at Rayban air are making plenty" They will soon be under managements microscope and brought into line using the case histories that came before i.e. Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle, etc. For whatever reason, it is convienient for management to appease them at the moment--but that will change. Your fingerpointing at JB is pathetic.
Again, regionaltard takes no responsibilty for accepting low pages and poor work rules because he wants to get to a legacy--denying the fact that it was his own acceptance of the poor pay and work rules that started the lowering of the bar at the legacies--and he has the gall to point to ALPA as the cause. How unmanly. ALPA was the cause. RJs were the cause. Mainline pilots pushing for too much was the cause. LCC's were the cause. Airbus and Boeing and Canadair and Embraer lowering their prices through competition was the cause. Startups using the old jets are the cause. For a fu<king rj guy to pontificate that JB is what caused the fall of the legacies is beyond the pale. I understand the dynamics of capitalism and do not hold anything against rj guys who are out doing the job they love, but lets stop the fingerpointing. JB is part of "the problem" in that the forces of capitalism created the LCC model at Southwest. The forces of capitalism created the RJ model at Comair. Other airlines started up to copy those models and here we are, you at a regional and I at JB. I am at JB because my legacy has been torn apart by the forces of capitalism. I was at this legacy for 8 years. I guess I could have done like you and gone to a regional, but why not? Because the pay and work rules suck. Regionaltard, I suggest you put in your app again at JB in 6 months.

Excellent post.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Why does everything have to be a SECRET? There's nothing wrong with posting some good news for a change. Anyway, I don't use that "private site" because it's filled with too many people like you...

You go Spectre............
Getting the full picture of JB will help a lot of us choose our opportunities down the road.......
Thanks,
Z

 

[Captzaahlie]

I want to send the regional retard some hand lotion from my next overnight......
anybody have his address? He must be having a stressful couple of months working over all the holidays...... Brainhurts and CCB perfect remarks....put a round of drinks on my tab OK?

 

[regionaltard]

For a fu<king rj guy to pontificate that JB is what caused the fall of the legacies is beyond the pale.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason you guys keep putting words in my mouth (not a dime less than a 777 pilot, for instance) is because you and the "Raybans, Regionalturd & "rubbing one out" crowd don't have Jack to say in response to what I actually did say: JB's 190 rates are an abomination, they represent a quantum decrease in pilot compensation that cannot explained by comparing them to any other existing payscale (JB management's "industry standard" claims notwithstanding), the JB pilots accepted them without a whimper, and by doing so they made the task of the pilot groups that will eventually bargain these rates back up to where they belong considerably more difficult. Capiche?

Regionaltard, I suggest you put in your app again at JB in 6 months.

Again? There you go again.......Thanks for the offer (I'm assuming that you'd be willing to give a brotha a rec. BTW), but I don't need the commute, the gay uni, or a pay cut that I could not possibly recoup at your airline. 'Sides, a good friend, one of the 60 or so folks referred to earlier in the thread who left JB when he got recalled to his real job, told me that he was thinking about spending a week or so turning tricks in Bryant Park at $5 a pop just to get his self-respect back before reporting for training.

Look, you're happy, and I'm happy that you're happy. Really, I am. I'm just tired of my employer taking what you're happy with and waving it in my face like a bag full of dirty socks.

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help.

Without ALPA's help. That's rich. There's very little in your work life, from the schedules you fly to the design of your aircraft, that pilots, through their unions, have not had a hand and a voice in over the years.

That's why the whole "get the airframes on the property, worry about the pay later" argument rings so hollow at JB. What role is your pilot group actually going to play in that process? Wait! Let me answer that with the words of one of your cohorts: ZERO, NADDA, ZIP! Let's make sure I've got this right: You set the starting point at an absurdly low level, adding several contract cycles at a minimum to the time it will take the pilot groups with the ability to do so to rationalize the 190 rates with the prevailing ASM model, and then you plan to ride their coattails to better pay. Hey! I think there's actually a word for that.

Your smug disdain for ALPA sickens me. Granted, it's currently a deeply flawed institution but even so this industry is immeasurably better for its presence. Read the book and then tell me what you think things would look like today after 60 years of the JB model.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Your smug disdain for ALPA sickens me. Granted, it's currently a deeply flawed institution but even so this industry is immeasurably better for its presence. Read the book and then tell me what you think things would look like today after 60 years of the JB model.

I've paid approx. $14k to ALPA in dues......... I don't see how they helped me much with things like scope........ or the flow through that's prob. never going to happen at my airline. They (alpa) suck up to the tit of where the majority of their cash comes from...... it's all politics........

Have I gotten my monies worth? NO.
Do I hate unions or Alpa? NO.
Are they the answer to every pilots problems with an airlines management? NO.
Unions hurt as much as they help, it's a sad fact.

just my honest opinion........... oh yeah I read the book, it was history right?

 

[Skank]

Wow, you can't take a joke. You really sound dumb now. You are nuts.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Oh, but that joke was so funny though...
And you made the leap that the poster is nuts. Nice job PFC Lee. (at least I made you a PFC).