JetBlue to adjust E190 pay

[Spectre]

I'm assuming premium pay is time and a half? (i.e. the pay you get over 70 hours?). $72/hr base pay E190 Captain 2nd year?

Normal 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $76.50/hr (based on $72/hr)
"Bonus" 80 hr. month for E190 Captain = $86.38/hr (assuming above "bonuses" math shown below, premium time = time*1.5?)

Normal 80 hour month = ((72*70)+[(72*1.5)*10])= $6120/80 = $76.50/hr.
Bonus 80 hour month = $6120 + [((5*1.5)*72)+250] = $6910/80 = $86.38/hr

Feel free to check my math! So you temporarily get about $86.38/hour as a 2nd year Captain of a 25 million dollar, 100 seat jet. What is the final hourly rate expected to be in mid December?

Myself, I'd never do math in public. Anyway, if your math is correct, then JB E190 Captains in their second year at JetBlue will make more than a 5 year E190 Captain at USAir and more than a 8 year E190 Captain at Chautauqua. http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/us_airways.html

I guess we'll all find out in a few weeks. The back pay is still a mighty nice Christmas bonus.

 

[Spectre]

OK, nice for the 190 guys and they deserve it.

But let's not forget, that this raise is the direct result of the JB pilots complaining about it for months on their own website. Managment reads those postings as well and are merely responding to an steadily deteriorating mood among the JB pilots.

Barger at the inception of the 190 program clearly stated that they (mgmt.) would pay what the market would bare. JB already lost 60 or so pilots this year and many from the 190 ranks. Every 190 Capt. leaving results in a trickle down effect of approx. $50000 in training costs.

Gentlemen it is clearly a financial decision brought about by pressure from the JB pilots, no mgmt. benevolence! Just like was the case when the first pay raise occurred in 2001. Then there was a massive exodus for the majors that were hiring at that time.

If they think that a raise is necessary now, why did they not start off with the current scales? All BS!

Umm, I think you have the timing a little off on the raise in 2001. After 9/11, I don't think there were many JB pilots leaving for the legacies. The raises came after 9/11 which is something management didn't have to do. So if management only makes decisions for financial reasons, you think you would have had a 30% pay raise with back pay after 9/11?

JetBlue management is smart. You don't start off with the current scale in the E190 because it is easier to give a raise than to ask for pay cuts...

 

[gt1900]

Not to stir the pot.. But just to remind you... JB's 190 rates are gonna have to come up a lot to become even close to Horizon's CRJ-700 pay rates of over $120 per hour.. $85 per hour to fly a 100 seat airplane is an absolute joke when you can fly for a commuter for over $40,000 a year more with 30 less seats.. BTW.. This isn't a bash, I hope JB guys on the 190 get a huge pay raise.. But, they have a long way to go on the 190... Good luck JB guys..

 

[curtaindriver]

Not to stir the pot.. But just to remind you... JB's 190 rates are gonna have to come up a lot to become even close to Horizon's CRJ-700 pay rates of over $120 per hour.. $85 per hour to fly a 100 seat airplane is an absolute joke when you can fly for a commuter for over $40,000 a year more with 30 less seats.. BTW.. This isn't a bash, I hope JB guys on the 190 get a huge pay raise.. But, they have a long way to go on the 190... Good luck JB guys..

Understanding obviously that our pay is low, your comparison is slightly misleading. That pay for Horizon is an 18 year captain. Which, Horizon has. Our most senior captain on the 190 is 3 years. I upgraded in 12 months. But, we definietely have to get our pay up.

CD

 

[gt1900]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

 

[Truckdriver]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

Yes the rates are low, but your comparison still isn't fair. There will never be a 9 year CA on the 190 at JB unless they don't want to upgrade on the 320. What is the most junior CRJ-700 CA and most junior Q400 CA at QX. I'll bet it's close to 8 years on the 700 and 5 years on the 400 if not a little higher. Anyone with that kind of seniority at B6 is an A320 CA. The reason why the 190 rates were low was because they assumed FO's would only bear the low pay for a year and that CA's would only be on the plane for their two year lock before going back to the 320 as Captains. Theoretically making the most senior 190 CA getting paid 4th year pay. That is not happening hence the pressure to raise rates. Not defending the rates, just shedding light on the fact that there was some reasoning behind the low 190 rates. So far there hasn't been an FO that hasn't upgraded in under 16 months. And just so you know, I think Horizon is the best paying place out there as far as pay goes on jets 100 seats or less. Hopefully the race to the bottom won't effect you as it has almost every other carrier out there that flies small jets.

 

[JBPA]

Myself, I'd never do math in public. Anyway, if your math is correct, then JB E190 Captains in their second year at JetBlue will make more than a 5 year E190 Captain at USAir and more than a 8 year E190 Captain at Chautauqua.

...But less than a year 2 SWA FO!! In fact, they make less than a SWA FO all the way up to year 11 (not counting premium pay).


Glug Glug Glug.

 

[n25na]

Yes the rates are low, but your comparison still isn't fair. There will never be a 9 year CA on the 190 at JB unless they don't want to upgrade on the 320. .

never say never....

 

[IB6 UB9]

Just like was the case when the first pay raise occurred in 2001. Then there was a massive exodus for the majors that were hiring at that time.

Are you sure? I was furloughed in the time frame you are talking about...I don't recall a lot of hiring...please quote your source.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Ok... Your right... Here is a not so misleading comparison for Captains at QX on CRJ 700 and Q 400 vs Capt. at JB on 190....

2nd year pay at QX...CRJ700-$75 hr... JB 190 2nd yr..$72 hr......
5th year pay at QX....CRJ700-$80 hr....JB 190...........$77 hr...
10th year at QX........CRJ700-$95 hr....JB 190 10 yr..$85 hr..
18th year at QX........CRJ700-$121 hr...JB 190 12yr (max).$89 hr

If you want more comparable pay...
2nd year pay QX...Q400-$67 hr.......... JB 190 2nd yr.. $72 hr
5th year pay QX..Q400-$74 hr...........JB 190 5th yr....$77hr
10th year pay QX.Q400-$87 hr...........JB 190 10 yr.....$85 hr
18th year pay QX..Q400-$111 hr.........JB 190 12 (max).$89 hr

Again.. Not trying to bash.. BUT the comparison is not misleading.. A JB 190 captain at year 9 is equal to a Horizon Captain flying a turboprop at year 9... Again.. Im not trying to bash, but don't try to defend JB's 190 rates... They absolutly suck.. The only thing to do is fight to try and get those rates up... At least higher than the regional carriers... Again, good luck JB guys..

And it's still off because JB pilots get 1.5 times pay exceeding 70 hours. So if that were true, the JB equivelent pilot now makes more than your comparisons, and hopefully, will significantly exceed your payscale with their raise in December.

 

[Tref]

The worst thing about the JB rates for the EMB are that they were the first US carrier to post the rates and they set the bar really low. After that, every carrier used that as the competitive market rate.

 

[Truckdriver]

The worst thing about the JB rates for the EMB are that they were the first US carrier to post the rates and they set the bar really low. After that, every carrier used that as the competitive market rate.

And the reason JB posted such low rates was because SkyWest had rates on paper that would allow them to fly the E190 for 50-seat wages. This happned about a year before JB posted 190 rates. JB 190 rates are significantly higher than the 99-seat rate was at SKYW. Don't say that the SKYW rate didn't effect what JB management felt was an industry average 100-seat rate.

 

[Truckdriver]

...But less than a year 2 SWA FO!! In fact, they make less than a SWA FO all the way up to year 11 (not counting premium pay).


Glug Glug Glug.

Come on man, don't bring SWA into this because it will make us all sick! They make more than widebody legacy pilots for now.

 

[Lear70]

Man, you guys are some negative people for a THANKSgiving holiday...

I'm thankful I live in a free country where I can take my skills to different employers if I choose, then have the right to negotiate (either through Collective Bargaining or through general griping, complaining, and quitting) for a higher salary.

I'm thankful for the THOUSANDS of men and women in our armed forces fighting in foreign countries to not only ensure our continued way of life, but to try to bring it to others.

I'm thankful for the ability to note have to work my first Thanksgiving at my new employer.

I'm thankful for my family and their support when, first thing the next morning, I have to go to work.

I'm thankful for my health and the ability to fly. At all.

Just a thought, but maybe you guys need to back up a step and not immediately jump all over someone on a holiday that we are supposed to be giving THANKS for the things we DO have.

Jeez...

 

[Longhorn]

Lear,
I know you were thankful and all, which is great, but thanksgiving was yesterday.

 

[LandGreen]

Come on man, don't bring SWA into this because it will make us all sick! They make more than widebody legacy pilots for now.

EXACTLY!! I remember back in the late 90's and early 00's when all the legacy's were bashing SWA because THEY were dragging the wages down...NOW they are leading the pack. It has always been like this in aviation history...

A good lesson for the newbies in this industry...never throw stones in glass houses. We all live in glass houses in the aviation industry!

 

[MD80DRVR]

So, here's to all the naysayers out there. This was all done without ALPA's help. How many airlines out there have management approach its employee group to say we deserve a pay adjustment upward? This adjustment also includes some backpay:

E190 Captains and First Officers will each receive a pay adjustment equal to five hours of premium pay for each month they were qualified on the aircraft between June and December 2006 and $250 for each month of E190 service between the same months. An E190 compensation adjustment is also being finalized and it will be announced in early-mid December.

I'm sure some will still find a negative angle to this announcement. So let it fly. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I honestly don't understand why you would even post this here?? What is your agenda. Keep it on our private site, or do you like to just fuel the fire?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

JetBlue management must have spent time crunching the numbers and figured out it is cheaper to pay more per hour than spend Big $$ training newbies when the pay is too low. JetBlue doesn't want to become a "training" airline. Which I predicted would happen very soon without this kind of action.

I don't flame JetBlue, so don't think I am doing it now. Just making sure you'all understand the reason for the pay increase.

 

[Snoopy Mendoza]

The base rates have not been adjusted, yet.

This is a one time bonus.

:beer:

 

[FDJ2]

I need something positive from you or the General or I'm pulling the thread!

Any pay raise is a good pay raise.

How's that for positive?

Seriously, that's good news. I'm happy for you guys at JBLU. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.