Not trying to be mean....

[YankandBank]

Ok, what is up with all of the miltary folks getting great avation jobs and then going on miltary leave? It's great that you protecting our country, but don't you think your milking the system? I've ran into so many miltary guy's that keep going back to active duty for 3 and 4 tours, just so when they come back there senroity number is great or they hold out for bigger iron. I've been seening this for some time and I just don't get it. Why are you doing this?

I'm all for the miltary, I tried and didn't get in. Very long stroy. I'm not dogging anyone or any branch, I'm just wondering is it just me? I've asked some of the miltary guy's and they say just so they can get a kick butt schedual. That is just for the wrong reasons.

 

[radar_contact]

Oh boy.....this one's going to be interesting......

 

[bubbers44]

My copilot came back on the B757 and couldn't stop saying gear down and locked to every tower. Thought he would finally notice that nobody else said that but him over ATC. I guess that comes from jumping into the middle of the seniority list right out of the military.

 

[400A]

I cant speak for all, but for my brothers, going back was not exactly optional. When your reserve/gaurd status is activated you have to go.

I dont know many who would give up their great job and home time to go get shot at, just to avoid a seniority system.

If they are going to lay their life on the line for my freedom, (I was unable to do military as well) I dont mind them getting the good jobs.

THANKS VETS!!!!!

 

[VABB]

Not one of these threads again.

I was never in the military, and I say more power to the military pilots. If they can get on at an airline and work the system, I see nothing wrong with that. It's not illegal or unethical, and no rules are being broken. So what's the problem??

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Ok, what is up with all of the miltary folks getting great avation jobs and then going on miltary leave? It's great that you protecting our country, but don't you think your milking the system? I've ran into so many miltary guy's that keep going back to active duty for 3 and 4 tours, just so when they come back there senroity number is great or they hold out for bigger iron. I've been seening this for some time and I just don't get it. Why are you doing this?

I'm all for the miltary, I tried and didn't get in. Very long stroy. I'm not dogging anyone or any branch, I'm just wondering is it just me? I've asked some of the miltary guy's and they say just so they can get a kick butt schedual. That is just for the wrong reasons.

Better question to ask would be why would they want to be a part of a club that would accept you?:laugh:

 

[Aubie]

Yank,

Those guys you are talking about are unbdoubtedly in the minority. Working the system like that, if that is what they are doing, is like milking sick leave for extra vacation and letting your brothers pick up the slack. Uncool. Most guys drilling, like me, have much fewer days off than other because we feel an obligation of continued service to our country. Living in a floating dumpster for 6 months or hanging out in a tent in the desert, believe it or not, isn't the good deal you might think. Neither is the lower pay.

 

[K-Mart]

Yank,

Those guys you are talking about are unbdoubtedly in the minority. Working the system like that, if that is what they are doing, is like milking sick leave for extra vacation and letting your brothers pick up the slack. Uncool. Most guys drilling, like me, have much fewer days off than other because we feel an obligation of continued service to our country. Living in a floating dumpster for 6 months or hanging out in a tent in the desert, believe it or not, isn't the good deal you might think. Neither is the lower pay.

Well put man. If someone is Military Leaving all the time because they might have to work on the weekends/holidays then they are what they are. Uncool. There is a differnce between someone who is activated for 3-4 months sitting in a tent and someone who puts himself on orders over thanksgiving/X-mas so he can be with his family and sit on his warm happy ass at home. A guy that does that, the latter, to me is no better than a scab. The unit is just as responsible for this kind of garbage as well. Honestly though, I know of nobody in my unit or have heard of someone doing this kind of crap. Anybody have any mil leave abuse stories?

 

[warbirdfinder]

Milking the system??? That is figuring a way to get extra vacation, abusing sick leave, skipping out on trips, etc.
Does your little mind think sitting in a tent and flying over hostile country while a bunch of ragheads are trying their best to kill you is milking the system?
Flying the worst schedule in the system is better than getting shot at!!
So what if they come back with their seniority number, they deserve it.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR SERVING!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trashhauler]

I got activated (involuntary) about 6 months after starting at a new company and was flying one of my last trips before being sent to Iraq. The captain said to me "You're timing this just right, aren't you, missing all the low seniority bidding." and I answered, "No matter how bad the civilian line is, it beats flying a red-eye into Baghdad watching for someone trying to shoot you down on final and then watching for incoming mortars while you're loading the plane."

 

[K-Mart]

I got activated (involuntary) about 6 months after starting at a new company and was flying one of my last trips before being sent to Iraq. The captain said to me "You're timing this just right, aren't you, missing all the low seniority bidding." and I answered, "No matter how bad the civilian line is, it beats flying a red-eye into Baghdad watching for someone trying to shoot you down on final and then watching for incoming mortars while you're loading the plane."

Well put!

 

[Scrapdog]

Ok, what is up with all of the miltary folks getting great avation jobs and then going on miltary leave? It's great that you protecting our country, but don't you think your milking the system? I've ran into so many miltary guy's that keep going back to active duty for 3 and 4 tours, just so when they come back there senroity number is great or they hold out for bigger iron. I've been seening this for some time and I just don't get it. Why are you doing this?

I'm all for the miltary, I tried and didn't get in. Very long stroy. I'm not dogging anyone or any branch, I'm just wondering is it just me? I've asked some of the miltary guy's and they say just so they can get a kick butt schedual. That is just for the wrong reasons.

Wow, I can't believe you opened this can of worms! Do you honestly think the majority of military pilots chose to get activated and go fight for our freedom to get a better seniority number? Give me a break, you need to get your head examined. These guys are defending our nation and getting shot at as we speak over there in the middle east. Yeah, there are a few bad apples in the bunch that abuse the system, but by you generalizing this concept, you really put egg on your face.

I think everyone see's the root cause of your issue. Do I hold it against civilian pilots that bitch about military guys getting a leg up on them because they didn't have to "earn" their way up by being a CFI, then flying freight, etc...No, of course not, because that's not the majority of them, just a few bad apples here and there.

You starting this post is asinine. Instead of giving mil guys sh*t for defending our country and having a civilian airline job at the same time, I would be praising them so we don't have to speak Arabic and be worried sick each time we take off that another horrible tradgedy like 9/11 is just around the corner. I'm not deployed over there currently, and I'm certainly not out to "abuse" the system - as you called it. However, if it comes time for me to serve my country over there, I'll be very proud and honored to do it.

 

[Diesel-9]

YGBSM!!! Nrr.

 

[stonewall]

I like both my jobs. When I'm on mil leave, I'm doing what I say I'm doing...flying with my guard unit. Yes, there are individuals that game the system. Rest easy in the knowledge that everyone in their unit KNOWS they are gaming the system, and they're usually gaming it at both ends. If people are unethical with one job, they're usually unethical in the other and it will catch up with them.

For what it's worth, I'm on full time orders at my Guard unit right now since they're short handed. I'll go back to my airline gig for 2 mos and then go on long term orders for a jet conversion. Right now, I'm losing about 30K a year being away from my carrier. Next year it will be around 45k a year. It ain't all roses.

 

[millhouse21]

For me, drill pay was the only thing that kept me solvent during my first year at Trans States. I do still take as much military leave as I can because I like it and it pays 2-3 times as much as my "real" job. I'm sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval. If you're really upset, you could lobby congress to get the law changed...

 

[Slug]

Not defending or attacking, just pointing out the average age of the civilian's first major probably comes (on average) at around 27-30 years of age. The average military guy's is more like 33-37. My first major was 34, the second was 37.

 

[FCPhotography]

My family is living a pretty good life because of them.

I welcome them back wherever they are on the senority list.

 

[crashpad]

Happy Thanksgiving to all our Servicemen abroad and "Thank you".

 

[Caveman]

I've been a fairly vocal critic of the preference military pilots get during hiring, but you're way off base on this one. For every 1 military pilot that is unethically milking the system I can show you 50 that are working their asses off legitimately trying to paint both sides of the fence. Being a reserve member while trying to hold down a full time civilian job is one heck of a commitment. I'd suggest you try walking in their shoes before you cast any stones. Any reserve member, pilot or not, works at least two weeks straight every month without a day off. They work their civilian job M-F, do a drill weekend (usually not in the town they live in) and then work another M-F stint before they get a day off.

In the airline world coordinating MIL leave with your normal schedule usually means a LOSS of pay. A pilot may have to drop a 4 day trip to allow themselves to be off for a 1 or 2 day drill period. I regularly see pilots take a net loss of income in order to meet their guard commitments. Sorry, buddy. You're way off on this.

 

[737ski]

My family is living a pretty good life because of them.

I welcome them back wherever they are on the senority list.

Amen, brother.

Just let it be known that folks taking long term mil leave will be a rare sight for the near future. I was denied a one month extension for retirement in the AF due to downsizing--yes, of pilots, but 30-40,000 personnel overall.

 

[scoreboard]

Ok, what is up with all

generalizing aren't you?

of the miltary folks getting great avation jobs

there are great jobs out here?

and then going on miltary leave? It's great that you protecting our country, but don't you think your milking the system?

OK sonny, I don't think flying into harms way is milking any system

I've ran into so many

once again your generalizing

miltary guy's that keep going back to active duty for 3 and 4 tours, just so when they come back there senroity number is great or they hold out for bigger iron. I've been seening this for some time

some time as in a week, a month, you heard it from a friend of a friend?

and I just don't get it.

nor will you

Why are you doing this?

I'm all for the miltary, I tried and didn't get in.

and they say our standards have been lowered

Very long stroy.

stroy?

I'm not dogging anyone or any branch

no not dogging, just bringing it up before thanksgiving

, I'm just wondering is it just me?

its you Einstein

I've asked some of the miltary guy's and they say just so they can get a kick butt schedual

and you believed it, ever hear of sarcasm?

. That is just for the wrong reasons.[/quote

4 posts, YGBSM, go back to Flight sim boy.

 

[YankandBank]

Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!

Exceuse the hell out of me for thinking faster then what my fingers can type!!! Yes, I've talked to 4 miltary guy's doing this. "Milking" the system. I'm not going to name names or they work, but they know who they are. I'm sorry if you think I ment all milatry guy's are doing this, didn't mean it that way!! Sorry for the bad timeing. Alot of us have family too and still have to work the holiday's.

The 4 guy's I'm talking about just do pond crossings and Euro stuff. I asked how they liked sand and they all said they were not there. Sure there are bad egg's, on both side's. But why should they get to milk the system when others, on both side's, get screwed?

I know a lot of vet's from all over. I love to listen to the things they have seen and done. I've alway's thanked each one, no matter what they did, for letting me hear there story. Some of them have said that it's said that there are some "milking" the system.

So if you took this personaly, get off your high horse!!

If I have offended the "real" miltary guy's, I'm sorry.

If you are going to judge me the number of post, sorry I've got better things to do then sit around bitch at some one about the number of post!! I've just flying too much and my plane doesn't get internet!!

 

[JFReservist]

just doing pond crossings...

I'll be the first to admit, I am milking the system. I sit left seat on my MIL LV vacation days, and right seat at the other job. I've had many people congratulate me on getting my PIC time and forgoing the right seat crap at my flailing regional job. Yes, I get paid double at the Reserves that I do on the line. I was one of the lucky ones who, with no effort at all, eased into a pilot slot, graduated top third of my class and started sucking the reserve teet. I got lucky, milking the system.

I got lucky enough to pass gas to guys hauling the remains of 19 and 20 year old kids who gave their lives, not to debate union v. mngmt, but to debate freedom v. the death of civilization. I am milking the system by being on-time with a boat load of gas to give to a receiver so they can get supplies to and from the AOR, with min time on the ground. I love milking the system over the pond, while my daughter asks my wife, "when is daddy coming home?" I will milk, and scam and be unethical as much as I can to do my part for the war effort, no matter how dismayed I am with its progress or my personal opinions. I will do all of that to honor those that have worn the uniform before me. I guess we all have our priorities though.

 

[brainhurts]

I'll be the first to admit, I am milking the system. I sit left seat on my MIL LV vacation days, and right seat at the other job. I've had many people congratulate me on getting my PIC time and forgoing the right seat crap at my flailing regional job. Yes, I get paid double at the Reserves that I do on the line. I was one of the lucky ones who, with no effort at all, eased into a pilot slot, graduated top third of my class and started sucking the reserve teet. I got lucky, milking the system.

I got lucky enough to pass gas to guys hauling the remains of 19 and 20 year old kids who gave their lives, not to debate union v. mngmt, but to debate freedom v. the death of civilization. I am milking the system by being on-time with a boat load of gas to give to a receiver so they can get supplies to and from the AOR, with min time on the ground. I love milking the system over the pond, while my daughter asks my wife, "when is daddy coming home?" I will milk, and scam and be unethical as much as I can to do my part for the war effort, no matter how dismayed I am with its progress or my personal opinions. I will do all of that to honor those that have worn the uniform before me. I guess we all have our priorities though.

Bingo. And if that is considered "milking the system"--then so be it.

 

[K-Mart]

Bingo. And if that is considered "milking the system"--then so be it.

Amen and Happy Turkey Day to those serving our country here and oveseas!

 

[brainhurts]

Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!

Exceuse the hell out of me for thinking faster then what my fingers can type!!! Yes, I've talked to 4 miltary guy's doing this. "Milking" the system. I'm not going to name names or they work, but they know who they are. I'm sorry if you think I ment all milatry guy's are doing this, didn't mean it that way!! Sorry for the bad timeing. Alot of us have family too and still have to work the holiday's.

The 4 guy's I'm talking about just do pond crossings and Euro stuff. I asked how they liked sand and they all said they were not there. Sure there are bad egg's, on both side's. But why should they get to milk the system when others, on both side's, get screwed?

I know a lot of vet's from all over. I love to listen to the things they have seen and done. I've alway's thanked each one, no matter what they did, for letting me hear there story. Some of them have said that it's said that there are some "milking" the system.

So if you took this personaly, get off your high horse!!

If I have offended the "real" miltary guy's, I'm sorry.

If you are going to judge me the number of post, sorry I've got better things to do then sit around bitch at some one about the number of post!! I've just flying too much and my plane doesn't get internet!!

Dude, the guys who say "milking the system" are probably being facetious. They have to do the days to be current so many times you say "milking the system" in jest around your non military brethrern just to deflect the good natured joking that usually follows anyway. Many times, if you have to do the duty anyway, you have options that are more advantageous to your situation, so you use those options. Lighten up Francis. If the military guys get thrown a bone on occasion, its not like they don't pay for it later.

 

[holmie]

Since most of the industry is in the toilet it is in the best interests of most Mil folks to go on orders to make up for the money they used to make. Not rocket science that these guys now have to make up for the retirements they lost as well as the major pay hits. Leave them alone.

 

[scoreboard]

Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!
So if you took this personaly, get off your high horse!!
!!

Kid, you started this going public when you could have easily done a search of the forum using the words military leave abuse.

And as you can see, your welcome.

 

[M3pilot]

And would you please quit using so damn many apostrophes! Seriously though, do you think after we get deployed on these all-expenses-paid vacations by Uncle Sam that we're thrilled to go into a PC cold? It's tough enough staying current and proficient in two completely different airframes and sets of regs...

My .02

Ok, I'm off that. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

 

[dispatchguy]

A good friend of mine is on orders, while taking the MIL bypass from a UAL recall flying those remains of 19 and 20 yr olds who have given their lives. Right now, he's probably at about 30 west coming west, while his twin 2 daughters have another thanksgiving without their dad.

Yeah, its all a bed of roses.

To all wearing the uniform, HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING, we're all praying for your safe return back to the real world of booze, bars, and broads