Age 60/65 Compromise

[Klako]

Klako, your arguments are really proving that you need to go. Junior pilots being greedy??? Man, you really have some nerve... gotta give you that!

Not all junior pilots want to see senior pilots forced out of a profession that they enjoy and into poverty with little chance of finding other decent employment, just so the young guys can move up the seniority list faster. Senior pilots have families and kids in college, parents needing help. Most senior pilots need an additional two years to survive retirement.

More and more junior pilots are seeing the truth and can now visualize that being able to fly to age 65, if they could have the choice, is a good thing.

 

[satpak77]

still waiting on a response Klako

I see you are former military. You prob joined at age 22,23,25. Operated inside a structured organization which told you how to brush your teeth and how to hold the toothbrush. Went to the airlines, and was given your lines and schedule, and told how to do it.

Now you might retire, into.....DRUM ROLL....SCARY MUSIC.....a life of no pre-provided structure. Now you must wake up and go thru the day, on your OWN, with no one to hold your 60 year old hand.

So why not join the FAA, back to the comfort of the government. Nice and comfy and the milk is warm isn't it.

 

[two(2)%]

Cops and firemen have very physically demanding jobs. Airline pilots on the other hand are in the same group as, say, doctors, lawyers, politicians who’s jobs are not physically but intellectually demanding. Therefore age alone should not be a factor.

Politicians?? Like Bobby Byrd and Teddy Stevens?? I'm sure these two are busting out of their skulls with genius and intellectual acuity. Whenever this subject comes up with my parents "We really like to see the ole' gray hair experienced Captain in the cockpit when we board our aircraft", I tell them about the time me and the "ole gray hair" went full scale deflection at 400' LIFR and I "suggested" we execute the missed approach. I was given the controls upon reaching safe altitude and we attributed our misfortune to a "defective" FD. We can only change opinion a few unsuspecting folks at a time. This includes your legislators. I believe it's important to contact your new Reps and Senators who are, as of yet, unenlightened.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Klako, I find it VERY hard to believe that you moved up without anyone being forced out. The effect of the current Age 60 rule is global - by that I mean system wide.

By way of illustration, let me ask you this: While you were an FO, did any captains leave Horizon for other carriers? If so, then they were able to move to those other carriers as a result, to a large degree, of pilots at said carriers being forced to retire and their company having to hire new FO's. Just because the retirement did not occur at Horizon does not mean you did not benefit from it.

It's not that anyone harbors any ill will, but you have to understand the implications for those below you. Not just those below you at Horizon, but those below you who are working other jobs trying to keep their families together while they put their time in until something opens up. I have a lot of friends still flying freight. I was fortunate to get out of that after 2 1/2 years of flying six days a week, i.e. of not seeing my wife or kids awake for six days a week (they were asleep when I got home and asleep when I left). The Age 60 rule was working for me even though I was at a 135 carrier hauling boxes.

I do hope things work out for you. I don't know what I'm going to do once I turn 60 either, but I'm looking at many options NOW, even though I have about 15 years to go to 60. Everyone in this business, regardless of age, needs to have a Plan B. JMHO

 

[NoJoy]

I believe there is a turm for those pilots who wanted to go back and sit "sideways" after turing 60. Herpes. It wasn't about the $ though, they just loved to fly-

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Whenever this subject comes up with my parents "We really like to see the ole' gray hair experienced Captain in the cockpit when we board our aircraft", I tell them about the time me and the "ole gray hair" went full scale deflection at 400' LIFR and I "suggested" we execute the missed approach. I was given the controls upon reaching safe altitude and we attributed our misfortune to a "defective" FD.

Was that every older guy you flew with or just this one? Why wasn't the Auto pilot used on that approach knowing it was LIFR? And what did you do about this guy? Did you tell your CP about this him?....or go to Professional Standards?

Tejas

 

[jbDC9]

Klako, I find it VERY hard to believe that you moved up without anyone being forced out. The effect of the current Age 60 rule is global - by that I mean system wide.

By way of illustration, let me ask you this: While you were an FO, did any captains leave Horizon for other carriers? If so, then they were able to move to those other carriers as a result, to a large degree, of pilots at said carriers being forced to retire and their company having to hire new FO's. Just because the retirement did not occur at Horizon does not mean you did not benefit from it.

Yep, this guy gets it. A very good example... but, you could've saved your fingers on typing that post; Klako is a complete moron and doesn't want to hear any logical or well thought out explanations on how the senior guys have actually benefitted from the Age 60 rule. The only thing Klako can see is his own little world and his own little agenda.

So, Klako will read your post but totally disregard it. Then he'll continue his tired and silly rants... "It's the junior greedy guys that wanna move up!! Dang you dirty greedy little punks!" Or something to that effect.

BTW, where's UndauntedFlyer in this thread? I'm surprised he's not here to back up Klako's drivel.

 

[The Prussian]

Whenever this subject comes up with my parents "We really like to see the ole' gray hair experienced Captain in the cockpit when we board our aircraft", I tell them about the time me and the "ole gray hair" went full scale deflection at 400' LIFR and I "suggested" we execute the missed approach. I was given the controls upon reaching safe altitude and we attributed our misfortune to a "defective" FD.

I'm impressed. Mom and Dad should be very proud of you.

 

[Deerkiller]

Not all junior pilots want to see senior pilots forced out of a profession that they enjoy and into poverty with little chance of finding other decent employment, just so the young guys can move up the seniority list faster. Senior pilots have families and kids in college, parents needing help. Most senior pilots need an additional two years to survive retirement.

More and more junior pilots are seeing the truth and can now visualize that being able to fly to age 65, if they could have the choice, is a good thing.

So this is about money. And you call the junior guys greedy. I'm not going to attempt to assume what debt load you have. But i will say that you knew 60 was coming, I know 60 is coming, everyone who puts on a uniform knows 60 is coming, PLAN. Did your pension get cut in half at Horizon, did you ever even have a pension? I fly with guys everyday who, with three years left, had the retirement they were planning on cut in half. Yet, i dont hear them whining about having to retire. I ask them. I ask everyone i fly with.

I dont get the moving up the seniority list fast statement. It's not faster, it's the way it is. It's the way it has always been. Despite your efforts it hasn't changed. It's not like they just changed the rule to 60 forcing you out early.

Like i've said before I plan on getting out early. I'm going to situate myself so I can go out on my terms. If I go to 60 fine if not....better.

dk

 

[Deerkiller]

Cops and firemen have very physically demanding jobs. Airline pilots on the other hand are in the same group as, say, doctors, lawyers, politicians who’s jobs are not physically but intellectually demanding. Therefore age alone should not be a factor.

This was your response to Gen. Lee saying that Policemen and Fire Fighters have to retire at 55.

Do cops and firemen not have kids in school, parents to take care of, healthcare to buy? Physically demanding or not they have the financial responsibilities that you and me have.