Pennekamp vs. ASACoalition

[ohplease!]

I say this because I know what it costs to support a family. Hence, I know what I am worth. When you are a bit older you will understand. .

what the heck does "knowing what it costs to raise a family" have to do with your "worth"?

I'm not saying you and I are not worth more but, that has NOTHING to do with it. Neither does someones age.

 

[wms]

A vote for Lynn is a vote for Breiling as MEC chair. She will install him after she is elected. He is currently treasurer and has refused to do the job he was elected to because of sour grapes. Rather than suck it up and have the fortitude and loyalty to those who voted for him, he has chosen not to do what he was elected to do. His difference of opinion should not keep him from doing his job, and if he could not seperate the two he should have the decency to step aside.

Also. a vote for the coalition is a vote to cave on a contract we've been negotiating four years to get. I'm not going to roll-over because the J5 doesn't want to upset SGU. She'll sell us out to not rock the boat and preserve her job as a pilot at ASA.

If ASA is not willing to pass on the prosperity in good times to those of us who stuck it out in bad times, then I'd rather see it be dissolved.

Also, why does JA not think the workers at ASA deserve what the employees at SKYW have? Jerry, why do you think we're second-class to your other employees? We're not asking for the moon, just what they have with a few adjustments. They have better pay (and not just the pilots), and what they are offering us is still way below what they already get. The ASA employees that have profit-sharing have a worse profit-sharing plan the SKYW. Our insurance is worse, our work rules are worse, our working conditions are worse, etc. We were hopeful that based on your reputation in the industry that the employees at ASA would finally be working for a fair and reputable company, but once again we've been purchased for the purpose of corporate fodder.

And the J5 would rather cower down and grovel to it than stand up for themselves and the rest of the pilot group and demand some equity within the SKWY,Inc team.

 

[VeeOne]

Obviously you haven't been here long enough if you think Lynn's history with ALPA and management is "conjecture".

I love your, "cut the pay so I can get my upgrade" mentality. Clearly, the coalition is for you.

Guess what, junior. The days of 1000 PIC and out still aren't back. You may well be at ASA far longer than you had hoped. Be careful how you make that bed.... you may well be the one who has to sleep in it for 30 years.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just one of those old guys who "couldn't go anywhere else". My experience with the process means absolutely nothing to a Generation Y guy like yourself........

"Me me me.. Right now... That's the way it's works on the Nintendo!" may have served you well up until this point. Guess what, junior, you're an adult now. Act like one. Goddang "me" generation. Y'all are an absolute joy to fly a 4 day with! You know, I used to be a pretty cool Captain. 25 year old entitlement happy whiners like you turned me into an ***********************************. Congrats! Come fly with me for a few days.

ps. Not happy? Go to Skywest. I'm sure they'll be happy to have you. In the meantime, stop trying to hijack my quality of life and that of my family. I say this because I know what it costs to support a family. Hence, I know what I am worth. When you are a bit older you will understand. Until then, do not pretend to lecture me about what you think we should work for.

So age is the premise for your argument?? Gonna' have to do better than that gramps. Hey, you may have been a cool captain years ago, and are an ass now, but it doesn't matter to me one bit. I'm there to do my job and fly the airplane by the book, not make friends in the cockpit. You may relish in the idea that you could make my life a living hell and be a condescending @$$ in the cockpit for four days, but I promise you I'd get on your nerves so quick you'd be begging for the trip to be over. Besides, I've flown with your type before- all I'd have to do is let you sit there and hang yourself.....in addition to that, if it got too bad, I'd just pack my $hit and get off "YOUR" airplane and head for the crew bus with a brief stop by the chief pilots office. One argument about safety and a sweep through my "Clean" file and they would probably see my point. Besides, I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't be the first F/O to mention your name.

You are really quick to attack my desire for an upgrade and tell me to deal with it for years, but then you completely spin it and attack me for going after YOUR quality of life improvements. Do I really need to point out the hypocricy in this or is it blaringly evident to you by now?!?!?

Every post from you is the same- filled with personal attacks and slander. Why?!? Because someone disagrees with YOUR opinion and viewpoint. Sounds to me like someone cries when they don't get their way- and your probably about ready for the retirement home, and not a gen "Y" nintendo hugging, snot nosed, spoiled-gotta-have-it-now kid.

With your attitude, no wonder you make all your F/O's misserable. Do yourself a favor and start therapy- you've already addmitted you have a problem and that's the first step to recovery. Have a nice day Gramps.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

what the heck does "knowing what it costs to raise a family" have to do with your "worth"?

I'm not saying you and I are not worth more but, that has NOTHING to do with it. Neither does someones age.

I didn't say raising a family makes you worth more. I said raising a family and getting older makes you far more aware of what you're actually worth.

 

[wms]

If you're raising a family a larger part of your income goes towards necessities. It's the cost of necessities that have increased the most over the last few years. Cars, computers, etc have become more affordable. But if most of your expenses are medical, milk, gas, etc it's gotten painful. That's why raising a family makes you more conscious of your real earnings and what they need to be. It has nothing to do with ego, and everything to do with the needs of your family, which are getting harder and harder to meet.

 

[VeeOne]

If you're raising a family a larger part of your income goes towards necessities. It's the cost of necessities that have increased the most over the last few years. Cars, computers, etc have become more affordable. But if most of your expenses are medical, milk, gas, etc it's gotten painful. That's why raising a family makes you more conscious of your real earnings and what they need to be. It has nothing to do with ego, and everything to do with the needs of your family, which are getting harder and harder to meet.

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

 

[Speedtape]

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

I would agree with you on this post! The results from November 7, may be a good sign that things are about to change on that front!

 

[ohplease!]

I didn't say raising a family makes you worth more. I said raising a family and getting older makes you far more aware of what you're actually worth.

raising a family and getting older don't make you worth more...Now, getting more experience? thats a different thing altogether. Raising a family and getting older have nothing to do with worth.

 

[Medeco]

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

Really? The USA has more wealthy households then any country in the world.

The American dream is still available, but you have to go get it, rarely is it handed to you on a silver platter.

You chose to be a pilot, which you knew was usually a union type of job, you need to decide if your labor or your managment because you cant be both in this ASA job, and your union and current MEC have worked hard and should not have people like you turning their backs on them.

Some things take time, a concept you dont understand, and one that was so eloquently decribed in a previous post.

Medeco

 

[Medeco]

By The Way!!

Has anyone asked the FAB 5 EXACTLY how they would set up a vote to have them recalled in the event their MAJICAL powers that be, did not produce a contract the pilot group approved?

Seems fishy to offer such a vague " ohh we will resign if ......."

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

The things they are offering to get us are 90% in the current TA'd sections already.

Has anyone asked what they mean by a "SIGNING BONUS" vs 100% retro pay? You may be surprised of the difference.

Has anyone ever heard Barry Lee and his laugh? If I was management sitting at the table with this, I would have a very difficult time taking the issues at hand serious. Its a laugh that is annoying beyond description and uncontrollable by him in all situations. This is not an attack on him, only a valid consideration of who would represent us.

Besides, Lynn and Barry have both had turns at the table.

I vote no!

Medeco

 

[www.]

Do you have proof that they have been negotiating with management, or are you listening to people like Pennekamp who stoop so low as to make fun of people with Alzheimers?

Call me a stickler for dignity and respect and intelligence, but I see none of it coming from the current leadership!

I have supported this MEC up until now, but I think that has been a mistake. What is the other side promissing?

So when you speak of the MEC, which people are you talking about? There has been several changes lately.

 

[www.]

Has anyone asked the FAB 5 EXACTLY how they would set up a vote to have them recalled in the event their MAJICAL powers that be, did not produce a contract the pilot group approved?

Seems fishy to offer such a vague " ohh we will resign if ......."

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

The things they are offering to get us are 90% in the current TA'd sections already.

Has anyone asked what they mean by a "SIGNING BONUS" vs 100% retro pay? You may be surprised of the difference.

Has anyone ever heard Barry Lee and his laugh? If I was management sitting at the table with this, I would have a very difficult time taking the issues at hand serious. Its a laugh that is annoying beyond description and uncontrollable by him in all situations. This is not an attack on him, only a valid consideration of who would represent us.

Besides, Lynn and Barry have both had turns at the table.

I vote no!

Medeco

So if the Fab 4 are put in to office, who will be doing the contract negotiations? Has anyone asked them?

 

[VeeOne]

Really? The USA has more wealthy households then any country in the world.

The American dream is still available, but you have to go get it, rarely is it handed to you on a silver platter.

You chose to be a pilot, which you knew was usually a union type of job, you need to decide if your labor or your managment because you cant be both in this ASA job, and your union and current MEC have worked hard and should not have people like you turning their backs on them.

Some things take time, a concept you dont understand, and one that was so eloquently decribed in a previous post.

Medeco

Medeco- I do not dispute that the United States has alot to offer. However, the american dream is changing. The majority of households now need two sources of income:something that was not needed until the mid to early 80's. Yes, there are more wealthy households in the United States than anywhere else- I agree with you.

Regarding turning my back on the MEC- I simply disagree with what we are asking for. I have voiced my concerns regarding our requests in a new contract, and I was blown off by ALPA- not on FI. Thus, if I do not feel represented well as a First Officer, I will find someone that I feel represents my views. I have made it clear in several of my other posts that I understand the process. I've been through this before. Every contract that will be negotiated (regardless of company) will be a knock out drag down fight. I do not dispute this point. However- I feel that A 10% raise that makes us competitive on the 70 seater 8 years from now along with nearly 60 million in retro pay is nuts; especially when we have a sister carrier that is non union standing on our toes.

I am not management and I am a member of this union. If we walk and go out on strike, then I will stand strong and do the same as my brothers. If you think I am a company sympathizer, then you are sadly mistaken.

The eloquent post you refer to merely illustrates my point- that a certain individual cannot respectfully disagree and back up his argument with fact, rather than misjudgements and slander. Scroll through his replies, they nearly ALL have some sort of disrespectful comment in them.

 

[ASApuppy]

Mark one more vote down for Danny, Nick, and Co.. Lynn, in my opinion, is nothing but power hungary. She has sat on both sides of the battle, only switching sides when a more powerful post was available. Call me a conspiricy theorist, but I believe she has already negotiated a back door deal for herself. I read their promises, and simply think it is their intention to TA managements latest proposal and bring it to vote. Well Fab 4, I'd vote for that the same as I did for you, NO! Sure I'm frustrated with the slow pace of negotations, but the risk is too great to vote in this bunch of loose cannons.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

raising a family and getting older don't make you worth more...Now, getting more experience? thats a different thing altogether. Raising a family and getting older have nothing to do with worth.

You're missing my point. I never said having a family and getting older made you worth more money. What I said was that, as you get older and take on more expenses you realize the gap between what you're paid and what you're worth. In other words, it's far easier to stomach being underpaid as a 25 year old single guy with little to no overhead than it is to stomach being an underpaid 35 year old married guy with kids, medical bills, and a mortgage payment. I never made a correlation between a person's age/family status and their worth. I simply made the point that someone with more financial obligations is far more aware of the divide between what they are paid and what they are worth than someone with no financial obligations is. In my opinion.