Pennekamp vs. ASACoalition

[VeeOne]

If you're raising a family a larger part of your income goes towards necessities. It's the cost of necessities that have increased the most over the last few years. Cars, computers, etc have become more affordable. But if most of your expenses are medical, milk, gas, etc it's gotten painful. That's why raising a family makes you more conscious of your real earnings and what they need to be. It has nothing to do with ego, and everything to do with the needs of your family, which are getting harder and harder to meet.

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

 

[Speedtape]

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

I would agree with you on this post! The results from November 7, may be a good sign that things are about to change on that front!

 

[ohplease!]

I didn't say raising a family makes you worth more. I said raising a family and getting older makes you far more aware of what you're actually worth.

raising a family and getting older don't make you worth more...Now, getting more experience? thats a different thing altogether. Raising a family and getting older have nothing to do with worth.

 

[Medeco]

I both understand and respect that. I agree- but look around at what's going on around us. I hate to say it, but the American worker is under attack on ALL fronts right now. Unfortunately, it's not getting any easier for anybody, regardless of industry.

Really? The USA has more wealthy households then any country in the world.

The American dream is still available, but you have to go get it, rarely is it handed to you on a silver platter.

You chose to be a pilot, which you knew was usually a union type of job, you need to decide if your labor or your managment because you cant be both in this ASA job, and your union and current MEC have worked hard and should not have people like you turning their backs on them.

Some things take time, a concept you dont understand, and one that was so eloquently decribed in a previous post.

Medeco

 

[Medeco]

By The Way!!

Has anyone asked the FAB 5 EXACTLY how they would set up a vote to have them recalled in the event their MAJICAL powers that be, did not produce a contract the pilot group approved?

Seems fishy to offer such a vague " ohh we will resign if ......."

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

The things they are offering to get us are 90% in the current TA'd sections already.

Has anyone asked what they mean by a "SIGNING BONUS" vs 100% retro pay? You may be surprised of the difference.

Has anyone ever heard Barry Lee and his laugh? If I was management sitting at the table with this, I would have a very difficult time taking the issues at hand serious. Its a laugh that is annoying beyond description and uncontrollable by him in all situations. This is not an attack on him, only a valid consideration of who would represent us.

Besides, Lynn and Barry have both had turns at the table.

I vote no!

Medeco

 

[www.]

Do you have proof that they have been negotiating with management, or are you listening to people like Pennekamp who stoop so low as to make fun of people with Alzheimers?

Call me a stickler for dignity and respect and intelligence, but I see none of it coming from the current leadership!

I have supported this MEC up until now, but I think that has been a mistake. What is the other side promissing?

So when you speak of the MEC, which people are you talking about? There has been several changes lately.

 

[www.]

Has anyone asked the FAB 5 EXACTLY how they would set up a vote to have them recalled in the event their MAJICAL powers that be, did not produce a contract the pilot group approved?

Seems fishy to offer such a vague " ohh we will resign if ......."

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

The things they are offering to get us are 90% in the current TA'd sections already.

Has anyone asked what they mean by a "SIGNING BONUS" vs 100% retro pay? You may be surprised of the difference.

Has anyone ever heard Barry Lee and his laugh? If I was management sitting at the table with this, I would have a very difficult time taking the issues at hand serious. Its a laugh that is annoying beyond description and uncontrollable by him in all situations. This is not an attack on him, only a valid consideration of who would represent us.

Besides, Lynn and Barry have both had turns at the table.

I vote no!

Medeco

So if the Fab 4 are put in to office, who will be doing the contract negotiations? Has anyone asked them?

 

[VeeOne]

Really? The USA has more wealthy households then any country in the world.

The American dream is still available, but you have to go get it, rarely is it handed to you on a silver platter.

You chose to be a pilot, which you knew was usually a union type of job, you need to decide if your labor or your managment because you cant be both in this ASA job, and your union and current MEC have worked hard and should not have people like you turning their backs on them.

Some things take time, a concept you dont understand, and one that was so eloquently decribed in a previous post.

Medeco

Medeco- I do not dispute that the United States has alot to offer. However, the american dream is changing. The majority of households now need two sources of income:something that was not needed until the mid to early 80's. Yes, there are more wealthy households in the United States than anywhere else- I agree with you.

Regarding turning my back on the MEC- I simply disagree with what we are asking for. I have voiced my concerns regarding our requests in a new contract, and I was blown off by ALPA- not on FI. Thus, if I do not feel represented well as a First Officer, I will find someone that I feel represents my views. I have made it clear in several of my other posts that I understand the process. I've been through this before. Every contract that will be negotiated (regardless of company) will be a knock out drag down fight. I do not dispute this point. However- I feel that A 10% raise that makes us competitive on the 70 seater 8 years from now along with nearly 60 million in retro pay is nuts; especially when we have a sister carrier that is non union standing on our toes.

I am not management and I am a member of this union. If we walk and go out on strike, then I will stand strong and do the same as my brothers. If you think I am a company sympathizer, then you are sadly mistaken.

The eloquent post you refer to merely illustrates my point- that a certain individual cannot respectfully disagree and back up his argument with fact, rather than misjudgements and slander. Scroll through his replies, they nearly ALL have some sort of disrespectful comment in them.

 

[ASApuppy]

Mark one more vote down for Danny, Nick, and Co.. Lynn, in my opinion, is nothing but power hungary. She has sat on both sides of the battle, only switching sides when a more powerful post was available. Call me a conspiricy theorist, but I believe she has already negotiated a back door deal for herself. I read their promises, and simply think it is their intention to TA managements latest proposal and bring it to vote. Well Fab 4, I'd vote for that the same as I did for you, NO! Sure I'm frustrated with the slow pace of negotations, but the risk is too great to vote in this bunch of loose cannons.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

raising a family and getting older don't make you worth more...Now, getting more experience? thats a different thing altogether. Raising a family and getting older have nothing to do with worth.

You're missing my point. I never said having a family and getting older made you worth more money. What I said was that, as you get older and take on more expenses you realize the gap between what you're paid and what you're worth. In other words, it's far easier to stomach being underpaid as a 25 year old single guy with little to no overhead than it is to stomach being an underpaid 35 year old married guy with kids, medical bills, and a mortgage payment. I never made a correlation between a person's age/family status and their worth. I simply made the point that someone with more financial obligations is far more aware of the divide between what they are paid and what they are worth than someone with no financial obligations is. In my opinion.

 

[ohplease!]

You're missing my point. I never said having a family and getting older made you worth more money. What I said was that, as you get older and take on more expenses you realize the gap between what you're paid and what you're worth. In other words, it's far easier to stomach being underpaid as a 25 year old single guy with little to no overhead than it is to stomach being an underpaid 35 year old married guy with kids, medical bills, and a mortgage payment. I never made a correlation between a person's age/family status and their worth. I simply made the point that someone with more financial obligations is far more aware of the divide between what they are paid and what they are worth than someone with no financial obligations is. In my opinion.

I knew what you meant. I was just enjoying yanking your chain because you're usually such an A$$hole to everyone else.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I knew what you meant. I was just enjoying yanking your chain because you're usually such an A$$hole to everyone else.

Um, ok. I don't think I'm usually an a$$hole to everyone else. I may have been an a$$hole to veeone last night, but I also may have been drinking at the time. I realize I may have been a bit harsh, but I think my general point was valid. I think I was duly spanked for my knee-jerk reaction to his post.

I have my opinions, and I have every right to state them. I will continue to do so, a$$hole or no. Although, when the Maker's Mark isn't doing the talking, I tend to be a bit more levelheaded.

By the way, VeeOne.... Sorry. I stand by my general point, but the manner in which I presented it was way out of line. Unfortunately, when you wake up the next day and head for the "edit button" it's not there anymore.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Do you have proof that they have been negotiating with management, or are you listening to people like Pennekamp who stoop so low as to make fun of people with Alzheimers?

Call me a stickler for dignity and respect and intelligence, but I see none of it coming from the current leadership!

I have supported this MEC up until now, but I think that has been a mistake. What is the other side promissing?

Thanks for the publicity, Irish.

By now, you should know that at my age I care little what anyone thinks of me.

If you want to be a whiny crybaby and make my comments universal, like the republicans trying to transform Kerry's stupid comment into a description of the whole democratic party, go for it. I speak for no one but me. Oh, by the way, glad that worked out for them, given the outcome of the election.

My link was meant to be a light hearted poke at Lynn, since she can't seem to remember the outcome of her last two turns as a union rep. Not a commentary on Alzheimer's Disease.

Oh, and by the way, my mother and grandmother died of Alzheimers, so spare me the "making fun of alzheimers" argument. I am well aware of the disease, and will probably get it myself since it runs in my family.