How bad is it to break a training contract??

[pilotnbr1]

Mesa breaks the contract with their pilots everyday. I've heard that Mesa's Alpa branch is so overwhelmed by greivences that it take upwards of a year to see any followup. I would have no problem throwing it back in their face and breaking the training contract, especially if you haven't completed IOE.

 

[rickair7777]

Mesa breaks the contract with their pilots everyday. I've heard that Mesa's Alpa branch is so overwhelmed by greivences that it take upwards of a year to see any followup. I would have no problem throwing it back in their face and breaking the training contract, especially if you haven't completed IOE.

Anyone who is advocating honor and comittment with reagrds to mesa obviously has no understanding of the culture of dishonesty, abuse, and hatred which mesa leadership thrives on.

 

[snap145]

lemme make sure im understanding this correctly...you say youve been with the company for 6 months and you havent even started IOE....WTF is that all about....get out while you still can dude!

 

[Smash312]

lemme make sure im understanding this correctly...you say youve been with the company for 6 months and you havent even started IOE....WTF is that all about....get out while you still can dude!

Yes, been here since June - was told to expect a 'few' weeks off. Have been waiting 11 weeks (so far) without much word. But anticipate on starting somewhere near 13 weeks after checkride. I don't know if that'll even happen as I've heard others in my class have had their IOE cancelled. I won't get to consolidate (for sure) so will have to re-do the oral and a checkride - hence I thought I'd save myself the nightmare the second time over by trying with a company with a better reputation - and work ethics (from what I've heard). And no - I haven't finished (or even started IOE) yet.

 

[Corona]

Anyone who is advocating honor and comittment with reagrds to mesa obviously has no understanding of the culture of dishonesty, abuse, and hatred which mesa leadership thrives on.

Well said.

Smash312; my guess is that you are concerned about being sued for training costs. No one could possibly care what Mesa thinks of a former employee. (I had a friend who managed to screw Mesa out of 7K. If I were a manager looking to hire him, that would be a gold-star achievement.) I think this is highly unlikely. First, you cannot perform your job without accomplishing the training specified by Pt. 121. That Mesa wants to potentially bill someone for training when they cannot be an employee without, says volumes about what type of company they are.

If you want to give yourself peace-of-mind, talk to a competent labor attorney who has experience in this area. You can probably find a good one through the state bar.

Good luck, and don't spend life being miserable. Life's too short.

C

PS: If Mesa had given you a type rating, they might have a case. They didn't, and don't.

 

[gromgutten]

?!?!?

 

[immelman79]

whats all this talk about dishonesty. Screw these companys. The more we keep helping them out the worse it will get. Until we start stepping up like real men, this industry will continue to suck. They could care less about our lives. Anyone who disagrees with me, your the reason we are in this situation now. Things will get better in time, but how long it takes is up to all of us.

 

[BlackPilot628]

You should have known about all of this, the contract, QOL, other MESA specific issues before you went there. It's on the web and I am sure you talked to a pilot or two.

Get a purple sleeping board, buck up and try to enjoy it.

My thought exactly. Why are people going to Mesa and G0jetz knowing that they are screwed up companies. There are other Regionals that have a good QOL after about 6 months and you get paid for what you fly; why go to the junk companies. Mesa has a pretty good group of pilots, which you may be a part of; but you're also going to be a part of Mesa Management.
Don't go to Mesa if you want to leave in 6 months. Listen to what people tell you and make a educated dission. Exveryone is hiring with pretty low mins.
Comair, ASA, EXJet, Colgan..etc. Pick one!

 

[spitfire1500]

Am currently at Mesa. They seem to be very unorganized and I have a few friends who've been there for almost 2 years anf they've just jumped ship to other regionals. It got me thinking. I know seniority is everything - and if these people are running for their lives 2 years into being at Mesa then should I bail out while I can (been there less than 6 mths). Now I know they have a one year training contract on our heads - and I've heard all sort s of things about if these can be enforced or not. I'm just not sure.

I've been offered an interview at ExpressJet flying the same aircraft I have my SIC type on (ERJ). I feel confident about performing well in the interview. Mesa has had us sitting around for over 2 months waiting....for IOE. And it seem like we won't be making our dates for consolidation. Would it be straight-forward, sensible or even wise to bail out to go to ExpressJet. I know some people would call this a no brainer, but having looked at most of the regionals they seem to be within a few bucks of each other in terms of pay. So thats not a major factor. QOL seems to be a bing one. I've not even made the line at Mesa and I can see how they can give people the run around and well, just make life a little difficult. I hear some very negative things from people who've been there a while, but then don't know if I'm just coming across the wrong type of people. I don't want to come across as being someone that is whining for the heck of it, but I want to see if these people leaving Mesa know something I don't.

I don't want to leave a regional for another regional after a year or two (like I've seen some people doing). It seems like a lateral move as opposed to an upward one. But If some people are doing it after being at a regional for a year or so, well - I guess there is some good reason why. Can someone enlighen me?

Please, only helpful replies only. Thanks.

I would look into whether your training contract would be in affect because it sounds like you havent completed IOE

 

[siucavflight]

Just run, and then ignore their calls, they are too disorganized to even be able to chase you down.

 

[flyslow24]

Hey KaptinKarl,

In regards to the union attorney. When I was going through "breaking the contract" at Mesaba. They went through everything with me and in the end they basically told me to quit (because I wanted to).

So yes the attorney will help you and instruct you on what you can and can not do.

Thanks

 

[rickair7777]

Yes, been here since June - was told to expect a 'few' weeks off. Have been waiting 11 weeks (so far) without much word. But anticipate on starting somewhere near 13 weeks after checkride. I don't know if that'll even happen as I've heard others in my class have had their IOE cancelled. I won't get to consolidate (for sure) so will have to re-do the oral and a checkride - hence I thought I'd save myself the nightmare the second time over by trying with a company with a better reputation - and work ethics (from what I've heard). And no - I haven't finished (or even started IOE) yet.

Dude! Apply, interview, and go to work for another regional! DO NOT resign from mesa yet:
1) If you flunk out of the new job, you can always go back.
2) Collect your mesa paycheck until they call you for IOE.
3) Don't worry about the PRIA paperwork, mesa is too stupid/disorganized to figure out what you're doing.

When they call you for IOE, resign at that time giving two weeks notice. Then call in sick for every trip during the next two weeks.

Note: I am 100% serious about this.

 

[QXpeon]

You righteous fools amaze me. "You made a promise" "You made a commitment and you should stick to it." Does the company stick to its commitments when they hire you and furlough you two months later? Do you enjoy it when they treat you like apiece of meat and expect you to treat them like gold? The get what they pay for and that's why Mesa and every other regional right now is having trouble finding pilots.

Bail.

 

[Superpilot92]

No - I haven't finished IOE yet. My ExpressJet interview is halfway though my IOE. I have a few (or maybe many) days off around the interview date as my schedule isn't set in stone. I'm not assuming I'm hired at ExpressJet yet - but I feel good about the interview. I wouldn't jump until something was certain. But to be honest with you I don't know I want people chasing me for any sum of money, $8k or $1k - it can become miserable - will probably just see out the 1 year term.

Well just to let you know, our Director of flight ops just announced 450 newhires next year with almost 300 upgrades scheduled by july. IF you want to get on here at XJT now would be the time to do so not in 6 months. Good luck with your decisions. Seniority is everything and 450+ people behind you by next fall would be nice.

Question you should ask, Would Mesa think twice about Furloughing you if they needed too? Or if it helped them out somehow? I will let you figure that one out.

 

[immelman79]

one last time, if you quit you will have to pay. I know that for a fact. But your decision should be based on whats best for you. Fu_ck these companys. Upper managment could care less about us, what ever is best for them is how they work.

 

[rickair7777]

one last time, if you quit you will have to pay. I know that for a fact. But your decision should be based on whats best for you. Fu_ck these companys. Upper managment could care less about us, what ever is best for them is how they work.

If he hasn't finished IOE, I don't think he has to pay...it's worth asking a lawyer.

 

[QXpeon]

If you're not finished with IOE, you're not an employee.

You're not bound to the agreement.

Plain and simple.

 

[croutt]

JET TRAINING EVENT PROMISSORY NOTE​

​

$10,500.00 DATE____________
Phoenix, Arizona

FOR VALUE RECEIVED, the undersigned, __________________________ (“Pilot”), in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement made and entered into by Mesa Airlines, Inc., a Nevada corporation, Freedom Airlines, Inc., a Nevada corporation, and Air Midwest, Inc., a Kansas corporation including their subsidiaries affiliates and assigns (collectively “Mesa”), and the airline pilots in the service of Mesa, as represented by the Airline Pilots Association International, hereby promises to pay to MESA, or order, the principal sum of TEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($10,500.00), as provided below.

1. Pilot promises to pay to the order of Mesa at Phoenix, Arizona, the principal sum at the interest rate specified herein for unmatured amounts according to the terms of payment described herein. Interest on matured unpaid amounts shall accrue at the rate described herein. Demand or notice for payment shall be deemed to have been received by Pilot by Mesa placing in the U.S. Mail a properly addressed notice or demand with sufficient postage which is addressed to the last address that Pilot provided to Mesa in writing. Pilot will be given credit against the principal amount of the note based on the length of service according to the schedule set forth below:

0 to 1 month $10,500.00
1 to 2 months $ 9,625.00
2 to 3 months $ 8,750.00
3 to 4 months $ 7,875.00
4 to 5 months $ 7,000.00
5 to 6 months $ 6,125.00
6 to 7 months $ 5,250.00
7 to 8 months $ 4,375.00
8 to 9 months $ 3,500.00
9 to 10 months $ 2,625.00
10 to 11 months $ 1,750.00
11 to 12 months $ 875.00
After 12 months 0


2. Pilot’s obligations under this Note shall not become enforceable until Pilot’s successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program. This Note shall be payable on demand. However, if Pilot voluntarily terminates his or her employment with Mesa upon no less than 45 days written notice from the date of successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program, Mesa will forgive an amount equal to 50% of the amount of the Note then due. In the event Pilot upgrades or transitions prior to the expiration of this Note, this note shall expire upon Pilot successfully completing Mesa’s pilot training program and, if necessary, executing a new Note. Interest on all amounts due hereunder will accrue at the rate of zero percent per annum (0%) before demand and ten percent per annum (10 %) thereafter.

3. Pilot and every endorser and/or guarantor of this Note waives presentment, protest, demand, notice of nonpayment, notice of dishonor, notice of protest, and all other notices with respect to this Note and any guaranty of this Note in the event this Note is not paid in accordance with the terms hereof.

4. Pilot and every endorser and/or guarantor of this Note agrees that any extension or postponement of the time of payment or any other indulgence by the holder of this Note, and/or the addition or release of any party primarily or secondarily liable hereunder may be made without notice or the consent of any Pilot, endorser, or guarantor hereof and without prejudice to the holder of this Note and without releasing any Pilot, endorser, or guarantor hereof; and that no delay or omission in the enforcement hereof, or of any guaranty hereof, or in the exercise of any right hereunder or under any guaranty hereof shall affect the liability of any Pilot, endorser, or guarantor of this Note.

5. Pilot and every endorser and/or guarantor hereof agrees to pay, in addition to all other sums due hereunder, all costs and expenses of collection of this Note and/or enforcing the same including reasonable attorney’s fees, which shall not be less than twenty-percent (20%) of the total amount unpaid hereon at the time of collection and/or enforcement should this Note be placed in the hands of an attorney (whether in-house or otherwise) for collection and/or enforcement, or is collected or enforced through bankruptcy, probate, or other judicial proceeding.

6. Pilot acknowledges that Mesa has the right to offset the unpaid balance of this Note against any compensation owed to Pilot in the event Pilot voluntarily leaves employment with Mesa prior to the expiration of twelve (12) months of the date of successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program or prior to Pilot’s payment of the outstanding balance of this Note.

7. This Note constitutes the entire agreement between Pilot and Mesa and may not be amended or modified unless such amendment or modification is in writing and signed by Pilot and Mesa.

8. This Note shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Arizona without giving effect to the principles of conflicts of law. In any litigation in connection with or to enforce this Note Pilot hereby irrevocably consents and confers personal jurisdiction on the courts of the County of Maricopa in the State of Arizona, or on the United States Courts with jurisdiction over the County of Maricopa in the State of Arizona and expressly waives any objections as to venue in any such courts and agrees that service of process may be made on Pilot by mailing a copy of the summons and complaint by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, to Pilot’s address. Nothing contained herein shall, however, prevent Mesa from bringing any action or exercising any rights within any other state or jurisdiction or from obtaining personal jurisdiction by any other means available by applicable law.

9. Notwithstanding any provision contained herein to the contrary, the applicable rate of interest agreed to herein shall include the applicable interest rate herein, in accordance with the terms of this Note, plus any additional charges, costs and fees incident to this loan to the extent they are deemed to be interest under applicable Arizona law. Should the applicable rate of interest as calculated under this Note exceed that allowed by law, the applicable rate of interest will be the maximum rate of interest allowed by applicable law.

10 In the event that any one or more of the provisions of this Note shall for any reason be held to be invalid, illegal or unenforceable, in whole or in part, or in any respect, or in the event that any one of more of the provisions of this Note operate, or would prospectively operate, to invalidate this Note, then and in any of those events such provision or provisions only shall be deemed null and void and shall not affect any other provision of this Note and the remaining provisions of this Note shall remain operative and in full force and effect and shall in no way be affected, prejudiced or disturbed thereby.

11. This Note is not intended to, and shall not be construed to, constitute a contract of employment for a definite period of time or otherwise alter Pilot’s at-will employment status with Mesa.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, this Promissory Note has been executed on the date first appearing herein.

____________________________________
Signature

________________
Employee Number











This does not look like a training contract to me. Just a promise to pay back the cost of training depending on when you leave.

 

[Checknsix]

2. Pilot’s obligations under this Note shall not become enforceable until Pilot’s successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program.

I doubt anybody here, that has flown under part 121, would argue that if you have still not completed IOE, that you are still in training. Contract is not enforceable yet within the context of its own language.

 

[BlackPilot628]

2. Pilot’s obligations under this Note shall not become enforceable until Pilot’s successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program.

I doubt anybody here, that has flown under part 121, would argue that if you have still not completed IOE, that you are still in training. Contract is not enforceable yet within the context of its own language.

Agreed

 

[DirkkDiggler]

2. Pilot’s obligations under this Note shall not become enforceable until Pilot’s successful completion of Mesa’s pilot training program.

I doubt anybody here, that has flown under part 121, would argue that if you have still not completed IOE, that you are still in training. Contract is not enforceable yet within the context of its own language.

Seems pretty straight forward, but would you bet a few thousand dollars on being right without asking an attorney? I wouldn't. The law is interpretive and this will certainly come down to attorneys identifying when, in fact, training is complete. I don't think it's necessarily a slam dunk. Even if it is, it's going to cost you money to get an attorney when Mesa takes you to court! Ouch.