National ALPA Skywest=SCABS

[aussiefly]

Some of you guys really are idiots with throwing the word scab around. Lets be honest, a scab is someone who flies struck work. Ths skywest guys have not done that.

The more you guys demonize people and call them scabs the less effect the word has when we are talking about REAL SCABS.

So take your head out of your collective A$$es and stop trying to hold a loaded gun to peoples head so that they join ALPA. It gives the rest of us ALPA members a bad name.

 

[bogey383]

why would skywest pilots want to unionize anyway? so they can cough up pieces of their already meager wages to a union doing nothing for them. if unions are so good why is ASA in such a bad spot? Oh,wait! ASA was bought by skywest, because delta needed to sell them off to make a buck, since mainline was going bankrupt. Now being that you are a owned subsidiary of skywest, that means they can do what they want with you, your planes, and whatever else. Unionizing would be more trouble than its worth, why mess up a good thing, they are actually turning a profit. Moreover, there captains are making almost 89k, that isn't bad for an RJ.


Unions, NO Thanks.

 

[btrthn5n5]

I have a question. I'm on the fence here for a union vote. I have friends at all the rest of the ALPA regionals, and my pay and quality of life is much better than theirs. (argue all you want...) I'm all for voting in a union if I think it will benefit me, but right now I don't see how it will. I've gotten all the ALPA mailings, so don't try to feed me the propaganda garb...I want an answer(s) from where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Also, I'm all for raising the standards of the industry, but I think that has to start with the public and what they pay for tickets for a product. Not a union of workers.

When I look at how well ALPA is doing with everybody else, I must say...not impressed. So right now it seems I would be giving 2% or whatever of my paycheck to join a non-relevent group of whiners. Whose only arguments seem to be "SkyWest is lowering the bar... Try getting hired anywhere else... etc." I'm not gonna join an organization that has produced nothing for the pilots represented by them. Everytime I hear of somebody voting for a strike ALPA's name is there. Same for wage cuts, stalled negotiations, blah blah blah. But company's getting increased flying, taking airplanes, up-ing the pilots compensation (Southwest, UPS, Frontier, SkyWest, etc..) there is no ALPA buzzing around. So where is the "UP" side to ALPA?

From a pilot who is "on the fence".

 

[SkyNation]

It is a valid point to note. Why should pilots from a nonunionized carrier have the benifit of acquiring jobs at a unionized carrier like FedEx or Continental? By all means if you want to work for Skywest for your entire career and knock on unions than please feel free to do so. However, if you want to move on then explain to me why you should be permitted to acquire jobs at another unionized carrier? If I was interviewing you, I'd want a pretty thoughtful answer to that question.

this is one of the most nonsense ridden post I've read in this Moronathon. who the he!! says that you MUST have come from a union carrier to work at FedEx, CAL, or anywhere else? (BTW, I have friends who are at both that were at SkyWest) "Permitted to acquire jobs at a unionized carrier?" where is the world does that come from? who ever said that being part of a union is some right of passage in this industry? do ex-military guys meet your fanciful requirement?

people will get jobs based on their work history, personality, and who they know. welcome to the real world.

seriously, this is an idea I've never heard of before, that for some reason you 'must' have worked at a unionized carrier to work at another? did you just make that up? I know of not one single carrier that has anything policy-written, implied, or otherwise, that even approaches that.

I'd love to hear 'a pretty thoughtful answer to that,' but if history is any predictor, we'll get some spew like the first post in this thread.

 

[DoubtingThomas]

Agreed. Last I checked, when you interview at a company, you do so with management, not with the union that controls the pilot group.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

If you were interviewing, you'd know you can't ask that question--though though I suppose you could allude to it.

 

[FlySacto]

I'll probably join the plumber's union

The trash some of you guys spew about SkyWest and using the word scab is really a turn off to anyone with half a brain and knows more than five years of airline history. There are a lot of guys and gals trying to decide where they want to take their job and careers. You really look like something to associate with. If I'm going to have to deal with anyone like you then I'd have to say ALPA is going to be a huge f*cking step back for SkyWest.

I'll see if I can join the plumbers union instead. Plumbers are at least smart enough not to throw sh*t at someone's house on purpose if they want their business!

P.S I sent in the card. F*ck You!

 

[Rogue5]

To put all this in perspective, take a look at a few of Scarlet's past posts:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/search.php?searchid=1089976

(S)he is a big GoJet apologist since "at least they voted in a union..."

Wow...

 

[tico]

I have a question. I'm on the fence here for a union vote. I have friends at all the rest of the ALPA regionals, and my pay and quality of life is much better than theirs. (argue all you want...) I'm all for voting in a union if I think it will benefit me, but right now I don't see how it will. I've gotten all the ALPA mailings, so don't try to feed me the propaganda garb...I want an answer(s) from where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Also, I'm all for raising the standards of the industry, but I think that has to start with the public and what they pay for tickets for a product. Not a union of workers.

When I look at how well ALPA is doing with everybody else, I must say...not impressed. So right now it seems I would be giving 2% or whatever of my paycheck to join a non-relevent group of whiners. Whose only arguments seem to be "SkyWest is lowering the bar... Try getting hired anywhere else... etc." I'm not gonna join an organization that has produced nothing for the pilots represented by them. Everytime I hear of somebody voting for a strike ALPA's name is there. Same for wage cuts, stalled negotiations, blah blah blah. But company's getting increased flying, taking airplanes, up-ing the pilots compensation (Southwest, UPS, Frontier, SkyWest, etc..) there is no ALPA buzzing around. So where is the "UP" side to ALPA?

From a pilot who is "on the fence".

It is a simple question that will lead you to the answer that you seek....How long do you think that you will be flying for Skywest: If you are looking at 1 to 3 years there probably is no upside for you.....If however you think that you may be there a bit longer than consider this....The people running Skywest today will not be there forever. You enjoy a tenuous relationship with them at best. But when the next group of business major wonder boys take over and they do not possess the founders spirit as your current group do, things will have a way of changing and not for the better. A contract with a union and a company remains in force regardless of who the ceo or chief pilot are etc....If ALPA comes to town for you at Skywest your life will not probably change much at all. More than likely many of the policies and procedures that you now enjoy will become part of your first contract. More than likely you will remain a single pay scale airline ie all jets pay the same all turbo props pay the same and so on however it would be my bet that the rate would go up so as to retain the efficiency in training associated with that type of pay scale......The huge difference for you is that those policies and procedures now contained in your contract protect you from management changes, from petty ass kissing flight managers/chief pilots etc....it brings consistency and stability and predictability to your life as a pilot.....And with as much good will as your pilot group and your management currently enjoy I would bet that you would have a much more "Southwest" style union/company relationship....You see ALPA at the local level is made up of you guys and you guys alone and the direction you take is really up to you....What you enjoy from a national organization is the resources and expertise in dealing with many many issues such as safety/medical/faa representation/contract language and so on....Every other non alpa union in the country regularly takes advantage of ALPA expertise in these areas.

And to speak to the carriers such as Delta/ Northwest/United/ Us Air who have fallen on hard times...They were unprepared for the war and therefore lost all the battles... plain and simple and that may or not be an ALPA problem but they each had there chance and they each broke and ran in the face of un-surmountable odds and they each lost....So don't make your decisions about ALPA because of those groups...Read Flying the Line part one(part two is a waste of time) and consider all the good things that having a union will bring to you. Good luck my friend either way it goes for your group you will all need some of it.... from an ALPA brother who is on the way out

 

[SuperKooter]

How do you know they have stopped transferring 700's?

Not according to this.

http://www.skywest.com/media/media_files/InService-OCT06.pdf

and this

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/skywest.html

 

[~~~^~~~]

The SkyWest pilots are not scabs, they are opportunists and some are defensive about continuing to take ASA's aircraft, but they are not scabs.

The ASA pilots were in a tough spot and made their decision to back ALPA based on a genuine desire to hold the line on concessionary bargaining - to stop the erosion of our profession. They have made this decision before when pitted against Comair pilots. Now that decision is tremendously difficult as ASA downgrades and seven year Captains like myself find ourselves on reserve. (For 5 of my 7 years at ASA)

SkyWest pilots should not pat themselves on the back and thank Adam Smith's unseen hand in their fortuity. This is not divine providence, it is ugly old union busting and once the ASA pilots are beaten and ALPA is discredited, the SkyWest pilots will be next in the barrel without scope, or any other protections.

The only reason why a SkyWest pilot would want to join ALPA is to try to stop the erosion of this profession. New hire SkyWest First Officers have nearly 1,200 pilots ahead of them before they upgrade. That is 218 jets - more than ASA has even if the entire 50 jets in Delta's alleged RFP show up and no E120's or -200's go out of service. This means that mathmatically it is likely that upgrade times will get very long at SkyWest and eventually they will see stabilization around industry norms. Probably then, they will want ALPA.

Right now they see a "fire sale" on RJ flying and they are grabbing all they can. Maybe ASA should have done the same thing, but for ASA pilots, they saw it as a matter of integrity.

Probably nothing will make it easy for the ASA pilots to accept their fate. Perhaps they should undercut the SkyWest pilots (and they probably will Mesaba style once things get desperate enough)

SkyWest pilots should vote ALPA to try to improve and enhance the profession. Not voting ALPA does not make SkyWest pilots scabs, but it does put the ASA pilots under more pressure to under bid the SkyWest guys, which is just what Jerry Atkin wants.

In the mean time, SkyWest guys should consider being patient with their ASA counterparts. ASA is dying because they took a stand.

 

[txpilot1974]

Vote no on union rep. and keep taking airplanes from a unionized airline, I hope national ALPA puts out a new LIST...Just a warning !!!

Hope you skywest pilots looked at St. George last week when CAL,FEDEX,DAL,ASA,Comair,United pilots showed up to picket

But you can fly at jetblue or airtran or AA.....

Yeah..sure..I'm alot closer to voting for ALPA now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In the mean time, SkyWest guys should consider being patient with their ASA counterparts. ASA is dying because they took a stand.

Like a Hollywood B movie. The ASA pilots are getting tortured for standing up. The favored Skywest pilots need to decide if they really consider the ASA their fellow pilots or just a group of unlucky SOBs that happen to fly CRJ's too.

Are the SW pilots going to forgo the little luxuries given to them for not helping the ASA pilots?

Who decides who is lucky?

I'd rather be tortured than take managements little luxuries...

 

[Tomct]

TOMCT,

You still did not answer the question I asked? Again, I hope your right, I just want to know why your so sure? I have not seen any facts to back up what you say.

Medeco

Med, talked with a CP who said that by April, we would be flying that much out of SLC. Most likely coming from ATL and LAX! We still have ship 703 and I don't think it will go anywhere. Either way, we are going to grow out of LAX and we are the only ones that can do that flying. Talked with our hotel person who is getting the hotels and he says that he is checking into getting rooms all up and down the west coast. Only time will tell! Relax and be patient!

 

[Prop2Jet]

Colgan is going to take all of your little rjs and rip the engines off them and put props on them! That will stop your bickery.

 

[Thunder]

Vote no on union rep. and keep taking airplanes from a unionized airline, I hope national ALPA puts out a new LIST...Just a warning !!!

Hope you skywest pilots looked at St. George last week when CAL,FEDEX,DAL,ASA,Comair,United pilots showed up to picket

But you can fly at jetblue or airtran or AA.....

dude you need throwing the word scab. hell, these days unions aren't strong enough to ever strike so there are never really any scabs out there because when is the last time a PILOT GROUP was actually on strike? i can't remember...burr duhhh.....

BTW if skywest becomes ALPA, alpa will probably shrink their profits and growth so fast there heads will spin.....

Don't do it skywest!!! ALPA sucks at the regional level!!!!!!!!

 

[sweptback]

BTW if skywest becomes ALPA, alpa will probably shrink their profits and growth so fast there heads will spin.....

Exactly how would ALPA do this?

 

[SkyNation]

sweptback,

I hate to answer your question with a question, but nonetheless:

why do you think SkyWest management wants to keep a union off property?

 

[copcar1988]

sweptback,

I hate to answer your question with a question, but nonetheless:

why do you think SkyWest management wants to keep a union off property?

My uneducated guess would either be a scope protection (i.e. gojets), or to prevent a sympathy strike from happening if ASA ever gets released.

 

[Thunder]

if ASA ever gets released.

which they won't, this country and its current courts and lawmakers are anti-union, get a clue. its sad to say.