U.S. Airways seeks to replace DASH-8s

[Gofish]

Here's to US air geting q400's/300's and puts them at mainline.

I'll second that notion...all aircraft belong at mainline.

 

[G2T]

Now here's the question... Seriously:

What are us Piedmontsters willing to do/not do to get them the Q400 on the property. I imagine Parker, via Farrow, will through a blended rate ala PSA our way. I know I am wishing too much trying to keep this away from the SCAB/bottom feeder/lowering the bar kind of discussion, but I am curious what is in peoples heads.

Discuss amongst yourselves!

"Blended Rates", aka "flying 400's for what we are paid now" would be a real kick in the a**. The problem with our situation is if we don't get new airplanes, I fear pdt's life is nearing the end.

 

[DieselDash]

I'm looking forward to the 1% raise the first officers will get for flying the Q400. Just like the 1% we got for the DHC8-300. Woo hoo 29 cents!!!

 

[ex j-41]

Serious question here k.

What would you do (PDT) differently than PSA. Now that most likely you will be put in the same position?

 

[Quack]

The largest problem I fear at PDT is the senior guys (which are numerous) won't settle for anything less than what horizon's rates are on the 400. The reality of the fact is that if we don't agree to something less than that, we won't be around much longer. The planes we have now are over 20 yrs. old and can't be maintained much longer. I would be willing to bet that if there is no aircraft order within the next year, the light at the end of the tunnel might grow much darker...

 

[ALGFLYR]

Isn't there a rate, or a formula to obtain a rate, for new aircraft in the PDT contract? I know there was one in the ALG contract (at least for jets) and both contracts were very close.

 

[doug_or]

There are jet formulas, but I think when it was negotiated the RJ age was upon us and the idea of new 70+ seat props wasn't on a lot of people's minds.

 

[lear24]

What would you do (PDT) differently than PSA. Now that most likely you will be put in the same position?

What we will do differently? Cave in and roll over, and accept whatever they throw at us. Look at how willing the guys are on here already to accept what we've got now to get new equipment. PSA stood up and said no while management told them there was only one chance to act. (Hurry, operators are standing by for only the next hour!) It turned out to be a bluff, just like it always is. U (excuse me, LCC) wouldn't come to us with an offer to begin with if there wasn't something in it for them, but no one will see it that way. That is what will differ with us, there are too many new guys who haven't seen this bluff and will fall for it, and too many old wimps who haven't learned from the last dozen times. We won't sit up and take notice that PSA is negotiating after voting no on their one time deal.

They will want us to fly 100s, 300s, and 400s for a rate between the current 100 and 300 rate. They will tell us this is a one time offer, take it or leave it. Mark my words, and watch us cave in and sell out, then turn around and denounce others for participating in the race to the bottom.

 

[WSurf]

I would vote no for flying it at the same rate! I feel that since we took pay hits to make the airline profitable....... remember we signed a concessionary package and took paycuts during BK! Plus we got no RJ's out of the Deal.
And for the company to make 305 million??? Hello!! We have been screwed by management too many times! If they come at us with a no raise deal especially for the FO's its a no vote for me. PSA stood strong, and if all airlines start to follow we can get these rates back to what we need!!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

What we will do differently? Cave in and roll over, and accept whatever they throw at us. Look at how willing the guys are on here already to accept what we've got now to get new equipment. PSA stood up and said no while management told them there was only one chance to act. (Hurry, operators are standing by for only the next hour!) It turned out to be a bluff, just like it always is. U (excuse me, LCC) wouldn't come to us with an offer to begin with if there wasn't something in it for them, but no one will see it that way. That is what will differ with us, there are too many new guys who haven't seen this bluff and will fall for it, and too many old wimps who haven't learned from the last dozen times. We won't sit up and take notice that PSA is negotiating after voting no on their one time deal.

They will want us to fly 100s, 300s, and 400s for a rate between the current 100 and 300 rate. They will tell us this is a one time offer, take it or leave it. Mark my words, and watch us cave in and sell out, then turn around and denounce others for participating in the race to the bottom.

I don't disagree with you completely... But was management's manhandling of the PSA pilot group a "bluff?" Funny, I don't see any CRJ 900's over there, and the fleet is shrinking.

I am not saying the PSA pilots did the wrong thing. Far from it, I think I would have voted the same way... NO. As a matter of fact, in the interest of full disclosure, I actively advocated that position on this very board. I don't regret that, but it appears the paradigm may have shifted a wee bit.

The prior model for negotiations was take it to the brink, someone blinks, then both parties get some of what they were looking for. In PSA's case, the pilots took it too the brink just like they should have then management took thier toys and went home. I know I didn't see that coming, and neither did the PSA pilots, I would wager.

Of course, I am oversimplifying this a tad. Duane's refusal to sign a "concessionary" contract was a cute political ploy, sacrificing the right of a small pilot group to determine it's future in the name of trade unionism and politics. The effect of ALPA national here cannot be overstated.

Bear in mind I also am basing my opinions on there not being any current serious negotiations between management and the PSA pilots. If someone could produce substantive proof that this was occuring, then I would happily eat crow. The PSA pilots deserve just rewards for thier determination. Parker's comments would seem to indicate the opposite is occuring.

I think most PDT pilots will examine the PSA saga and look at it as an object lesson. They may conclude that management isn't going to screw around and that the airline's survival depends on a yes vote. Maybe Duane will step in and say no to concessionary turboprop contracts and the PDT folks will be sacrificed for the greater good. Let's face it... Piedmont's negotiating postion is extremely weak; weaker than PSA's was, I think.

Personally? I think a blended rate is on the way. I am very curious to see what they offer. -300 rates to fly -400s? No way. Something more? I have to reserve judgement until I see.

 

[BoilerUP]

PSA's fleet is shrinking?

 

[PSAChiefPilots]

PSA's fleet is shrinking?

NO, unless he's referring to A/C scheduled for "C" checks but he wouldn't know that schedule.

PSACPSP

 

[BoilerUP]

NO, unless he's referring to A/C scheduled for "C" checks but he wouldn't know that schedule.

PSACPSP

Didn't think so...but wasn't sure. Thanks!

 

[Quack]

Surf, I agree with you that it would suck to fly the 400's at a lower rate than what we deserve, but look at the rest of the industry. EVERYONE is flying aircraft for less than what they deserve and then some (Hojets, mesa, etc.). Yeah I'd love to have a huge pay increase, but I just don't see it in the cards for PDT. PDT isn't the company it was back in the 90s when people wanted to be here. We're too old, too grumpy, and if we don't get new aircraft, we won't be around. There is no reason for U to keep us around in the future as 37 seat prop operators. They can get almost the same thing out of Colgan, and I would assume for a fraction of the cost. If the 400s don't come our way in the next year maybe year and a half, I would bet that when 2009 rolls around and the contract is up, it's bye bye to good ole PDT. And don't even get me started on the flow thru agreement...

 

[WSurf]

I didn't say anything about huge increases in pay! We won't see Horizons pay at all! I agree what you are saying we need them for our future, but we have to get some money out of the deal! If we just roll over, then we are no better then the Mesa's and Gojet's! Its (Q400's) gonna put more money in US Airways pockets..... Imagine a 72 seat aircraft that flys as fast as a jet, and burns 35-40% less fuel! This airplane if US Airways gets them, will be a cash cow! Even its only a few dollar raise, we need to get something. We are owed that!!
If not, screw DP and the rest of them that think they are labor friendly!

 

[Quack]

I guess we are in agreement then...Yes there should be a pay increase, but I am afraid of many of the senior pilots will settle for nothing less than a heafty pay increase. What do they have to lose...many of them will be done before or near our 2009 contract, and that does not bode well for the junior CA's and FO's. You're right, if there is no pay increase we might as well call ourselves the PiedAghenny SkyWhores!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

NO, unless he's referring to A/C scheduled for "C" checks but he wouldn't know that schedule.

PSACPSP

I was told at the training center in CLT that the 50 seaters at PSA were going away. Is that inaccurate info? It wouldn't be the first time.

With that said, Parker does not like the economics of the 50 seat RJ's, and rightfully so. He can't do anything about AWAC's, but he sure can do something about PSA's.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

I was told at the training center in CLT that the 50 seaters at PSA were going away. Is that inaccurate info? It wouldn't be the first time.

With that said, Parker does not like the economics of the 50 seat RJ's, and rightfully so. He can't do anything about AWAC's, but he sure can do something about PSA's.

What was said at the 900 proposal was they had way to many but there's no one to take them...only backed up by the fact that the last time I was in CKB for a "C" check airplane, there were 22 there collecting dust (Ex Indy Air) and heard there were 8 or so in OkC. Unless "ours" were leased way less than those, I really doubt they are going anywhere. Unless they got a Colgan or something similar to sublease them, I have no idea wherethey could go.

On a side note, "C" checks start again in January. Usually 2 weeks each so we will be down A/C on a temporary basis!

KBB