Its October and NO recalls at AA.

[100 c.i.]

I thought recalls and big aircraft orders were suppose to happen at AA, but I guess that means Oct. 2009.

 

[Gorilla]

There will be no good news until the "current" contract is signed some time in the year 2008. After we yield massive "productivity" line items to the company in exchange for a 2% pay raise and a no-furlough clause, and further gut scope, the company will announce they are buying 4 B757's that are for sale from "Wild Bill's Desert Aircraft Salvage" in Elko, Nevada.

 

[aa73]

There will be no good news until the "current" contract is signed some time in the year 2008. After we yield massive "productivity" line items to the company in exchange for a 2% pay raise and a no-furlough clause, and further gut scope, the company will announce they are buying 4 B757's that are for sale from "Wild Bill's Desert Aircraft Salvage" in Elko, Nevada.

LOL.... don't forget the 150 EMB-195s for Eagle with options on 100 more.

Seriously, Gorilla's right. No recalls until the contract is signed, following AA's modus operandi over the years. In fact, the Co has been pretty vocal about parking another 150 aircraft over the space of two years. The numbers I've heard are one aircraft parked for every 13 retirements.

Once the contract is signed, we'll see a huge aircraft order and massive recalls.

73

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

It is only the 10th of October, so there is still plenty of time for the "big announcement". Knowing AMR, the big announcement will probably be that they are downsizing yet again and that there will be more furloughs starting in November.

 

[Andy]

Once the contract is signed, we'll see a huge aircraft order and massive recalls.

I just hope that they don't make a bunch of work rule changes that increase the number of block hours per pilot. Or switch to PBS, which reduces pilot needs by 5%. (Like my UAL 'brothers' still on property did in C2003).
If that happens, recalls will be delayed for quite a while. UAL got an additional 20-25% efficiency out of their pilots with those work rule changes.

 

[aa73]

I just hope that they don't make a bunch of work rule changes that increase the number of block hours per pilot. Or switch to PBS, which reduces pilot needs by 5%. (Like my UAL 'brothers' still on property did in C2003).
If that happens, recalls will be delayed for quite a while. UAL got an additional 20-25% efficiency out of their pilots with those work rule changes.

True, but immediately after UAL announced PBS, bang! Recalls. So even with the 25% efficiency, they started recalling.

BTW, I'm not a proponent of Pbs at all.

 

[Andy]

Recalls at United didn't start until Nov '04, and that was a total of 40, including mil leave recalls. There a few classes in '05 that started in Mar.

And don't forget all of the early retirements prior to losing the pension.
We had about 10,500 pilots on the seniority list pre-911. We're now at less than 8500, including all furloughees - less than 7000 active pilots.

 

[75M]

PBS rocks. If you've never had it, you wouldn't understand. Better lines for everyone. Less open time = less reserves = more line holders. The added efficiency will help to give you an opportunity for profitibility which is the best chance you have to grow and recall pilots.

Good luck.

 

[AAflyer]

PBS rocks. If you've never had it, you wouldn't understand. Better lines for everyone. Less open time = less reserves = more line holders. The added efficiency will help to give you an opportunity for profitibility which is the best chance you have to grow and recall pilots.

Good luck.

It won't rock under the hand of AMR. I have heard the good things about PBS from may TWA pilots, however AA will not use those metrics in THEIR programming. Just take a look at our NEGOTIATED TTOT.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

I just hope that they don't make a bunch of work rule changes that increase the number of block hours per pilot. Or switch to PBS, which reduces pilot needs by 5%. (Like my UAL 'brothers' still on property did in C2003).
If that happens, recalls will be delayed for quite a while. UAL got an additional 20-25% efficiency out of their pilots with those work rule changes.

Andy,

Thanks for the other information you sent me. Do you have any info on PBS, letters from UAL ALPA or individual pilots experiencing what UAL management has done with PBS? I would like to put them on our unions message board to give them an idea of what to really expect if we go down that path.

Thanks

AA

 

[Freight Dog]

If you go down that path, make sure your vacation credit is a nice big number. Otherwise, you'll take a 14 day vacation, and come back having to fly 2 more trips that month in order to be within the bid window.

 

[aa73]

Recalls at United didn't start until Nov '04, and that was a total of 40, including mil leave recalls. There a few classes in '05 that started in Mar.

And don't forget all of the early retirements prior to losing the pension.
We had about 10,500 pilots on the seniority list pre-911. We're now at less than 8500, including all furloughees - less than 7000 active pilots.

Andy,

The difference between UAL and AA is this - UAL has no desire to shrink or park airplanes. Therefore, they had to recall to fill the void of retirements.

AA's plan is to shrink down to about 500 jets. We currently have over 600. What better way to accomplish that than to park jets as pilots retire. And that is what they've been sticking to.

They also will not recall pilots, thereby letting the pilots "win", until we sign the new contract. APA has every intention on dragging its feet, since we are in early openers (contract not amendable until 2008.) Therefore, I don't think we'll be seeing recalls and the stopping of shrinkage until at least then. And that's fine - shrink away, folks, and keep losing market share. See if we care. (Hey that rhymes.)

73

 

[SellingDirt]

I think you will see AA reduce by about 3-5% per year until middle of 08'. Gives them time to negotiate out the new contract, expires the recall rights of TWA F/A's and get's the fleet closer to 500 A/C. IMHO

 

[Andy]

Do you have any info on PBS, letters from UAL ALPA or individual pilots experiencing what UAL management has done with PBS?

No, I sure don't. I can tell you that the pilots on property were easy pickins for management on this one. Not many understood how heinous life could be under PBS. They know now. No open time, no way to drop trips, junior guys getting crappy schedules and being forced to fly max hours. Even senior guys getting crappy schedules.
While PBS is a win for management, it's a huge loss for the pilots.

I don't know who 75M works for, but if he had UAL's system in place at his airline, he'd be saying that PBS suks rocks.

 

[SellingDirt]

Been under both systems (including 2 different PBS) and PBS wins hands down!!!!! nuff said.....

 

[Zipperhead]

PBS is great, however its parameters are tweaked and tailored for each airline according to it's contract and work rules. UAL's work rules were gutted on the narrowbody fleet and the guys are feeling the pain using PBS. I've been at 2 airlines that have PBS and it is a good thing, once you try it, you will most likely agree.

 

[eaglefly]

Been under both systems (including 2 different PBS) and PBS wins hands down!!!!! nuff said.....

You haven't spent any appreciable time under the roof in question.

In those hands, PBS would be a "hands down" FALIURE.

......also a disaster.

It will never see the light of day at Eagle.......not sure about Ralphie baby and his dudes, though..............

 

[AA717driver]

Dante would cringe at the thought of PBS operated by AMR.

75M is former TWA. He's currently employed as a security guard at Club Rio on W. 38th St. TC

P.S.--75M you in town Sat. night? Wife's gone for the weekend and I've got a babysitter...

 

[ultrarunner]

UAL got an additional 20-25% efficiency out of their pilots with those work rule changes.

As a shareholder, you'd be hard-pressed to be bummed about that, wouldn't you?

 

[NuGuy]

Andy,

Thanks for the other information you sent me. Do you have any info on PBS, letters from UAL ALPA or individual pilots experiencing what UAL management has done with PBS? I would like to put them on our unions message board to give them an idea of what to really expect if we go down that path.

Thanks

AA

Heyas AA,

NWA pilots have lived with PBS for almost 10 years now. It used to rock...best thing since sliced bread and all that, and now it sux so bad it isn't even funny. It has degenerated into an automated trip assignment process.

It's ALL about the work rules and control of the parameters. BE SURE TO CONTROL YOUR OPEN TIME! If you let the company get away with less than a certain amount, or let your average day go down, your lines will stink no matter how fancy the program is.

Nu

 

[I Hate Freight]

AA's plan is to shrink down to about 500 jets. We currently have over 600. What better way to accomplish that than to park jets as pilots retire. And that is what they've been sticking to.

They also will not recall pilots, thereby letting the pilots "win", until we sign the new contract. APA has every intention on dragging its feet, since we are in early openers (contract not amendable until 2008.) Therefore, I don't think we'll be seeing recalls and the stopping of shrinkage until at least then. And that's fine - shrink away, folks, and keep losing market share. See if we care. (Hey that rhymes.)

73

Well, this is quite a change from you've been saying for most of the past year.

IHF

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Do you guys really believe that AA is going to park another 150+ airplanes on top of what they have already parked? I personally think it is a "fear grenade" from management as part of the ongoing contract negotiations. If they really are planning on parking that many planes, they had better start now as they sure can't park that many overnight. I would also expect to see furloughs as the loss of 150 jets translates to more than 1500 jobs lost.

 

[100 c.i.]

Do you guys really believe that AA is going to park another 150+ airplanes on top of what they have already parked? I personally think it is a "fear grenade" from management as part of the ongoing contract negotiations. If they really are planning on parking that many planes, they had better start now as they sure can't park that many overnight. I would also expect to see furloughs as the loss of 150 jets translates to more than 1500 jobs lost.

Maybe someone worth flying for will buy them, and they will hire the 1500 furloughees after they hire the already furlough guys that are already typed. Funny how things work, Gear up please!

 

[aa73]

Do you guys really believe that AA is going to park another 150+ airplanes on top of what they have already parked? I personally think it is a "fear grenade" from management as part of the ongoing contract negotiations. If they really are planning on parking that many planes, they had better start now as they sure can't park that many overnight. I would also expect to see furloughs as the loss of 150 jets translates to more than 1500 jobs lost.

It's all speculation.... but knowing how AMR does things from the past, it always seems that they don't recall/announce new aircraft orders until a new pilot contract is signed. Also, this would not translate to furloughs - rather, it is to keep the airline "right-sized" to correspond to the number of retirements we have coming up (+/- 500/year.) Otherwise, they'd have to cancel flights due to pilot shortages.

I Hate Freight - I know it's a switch from what I've been saying. What can I say, I've goofed it up quite a bit over the last two years. At least if I'm pessimistic now, any good news will be real welcome!

73

 

[Swaayze]

Heard the letters have been delayed 'til November....

I actually think AA will recall fairly soon. Get a few hundred needed folks back on property and then they can eventually use 'em as hostages (since the flowback agreement will expire in the next year or two) if they need a little extra negotiating leverage.