ASA ALPA Atlanta elections

[JustaNumber]

If ASAP, which is totally about safety, can not be agreed on then we do not have the proper interaction between the two parties and the house on both sides of the table should be cleaned.

This is faulty logic. If one side of two negotiating teams is being completely unreasonable, why should both sides be replaced?

It sounds like you weren't paying attention during the whole ASAP fiasco. ALPA, or to put it more correctly, the ASA pilots, simply wanted an ASAP program just like other ASAP programs that are standard throughout the industry. Management wanted the union to waive all greivance protections associated with any incident. (Lets say the company agreed to retrain a pilot for some reason under the program. Without grievance protections, they could refuse to pay the pilot, or punish him in other ways). No other airline in the industry waived those protections, except for Comair. Considering how our management manages to take advantage of our pilots at every turn, it would have been completely irresponsible to agree to that. I believe that while most pilots really want ASAP, they supported our MEC's stance.

The same goes for most other issues that our current representatives are working on. Can anyone actually fault their methods? They have determined what the pilot group as a whole wants, and they are doing everything possible to make those things happen. Just because management hasn't agreed to everything we want (yet!) doesn't mean we need to fire our elected representatives. I think they have succeeded in representing us.

 

[ASADriver]

This is faulty logic. If one side of two negotiating teams is being completely unreasonable, why should both sides be replaced?

It sounds like you weren't paying attention during the whole ASAP fiasco. ALPA, or to put it more correctly, the ASA pilots, simply wanted an ASAP program just like other ASAP programs that are standard throughout the industry. Management wanted the union to waive all greivance protections associated with any incident. (Lets say the company agreed to retrain a pilot for some reason under the program. Without grievance protections, they could refuse to pay the pilot, or punish him in other ways). No other airline in the industry waived those protections, except for Comair. Considering how our management manages to take advantage of our pilots at every turn, it would have been completely irresponsible to agree to that. I believe that while most pilots really want ASAP, they supported our MEC's stance.

The same goes for most other issues that our current representatives are working on. Can anyone actually fault their methods? They have determined what the pilot group as a whole wants, and they are doing everything possible to make those things happen. Just because management hasn't agreed to everything we want (yet!) doesn't mean we need to fire our elected representatives. I think they have succeeded in representing us.

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

 

[JustaNumber]

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

Does anyone have the union version of what's currently going on with ASAP? It seems there's always two sides to everything around here.

 

[www.]

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

Isn't that what LJ did.

And you offered your services when?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

Are you talking about that Sec/Tres guy who doesn't show up to meetings?

 

[Bizjet]

I know DW and I have asked him about what he thinks. He is endorsing the coalition of 4. He has good things to say about LJ.

I know him also and he would never make a statement like that unless he was just jerking your chain. DW is not a union member and he clould not care less who is in office for ALPA.

LJ left her management position because she was going to be removed from it. She was trying to do the job via her cell phone from her boat and got caught being AWOL too many times. Her track record in management was as bad as her track record for ALPA. She is all about LJ and JB and everyone else is just an object to be used and discarded.

 

[Bizjet]

Does anyone have the union version of what's currently going on with ASAP? It seems there's always two sides to everything around here.

Management made a total mockery of ASAP. They were under tremendous pressure from Delta to get the program in place but they would only sign a Comair style ASAP MOU. Delta ALPA was being pushed to sign the same type MOU as well. Delta ALPA refused as ASA had earlier rufused. The ASAP program requires trust in Management to do the right thing. Management wants Mary Larson to run the program. She is like LJ in that she is only committed to herself and can't be trusted behind closed doors.

Delta ALPA finally got their MOU signed but had some issues that almost caused it to withdraw MEC support. It requires a good working relationship with a management that is trustworthy. So how much do the ASA pilots trust this management? JA wants ASA to have an ASAP program because the FAA is pushing for it. Well he better clean house at ASA or he will be waiting a long time. An ASAP program with the current ASA management would be a total disaster at ASA. I have been at ASA over 20 years and would never self disclose via the program as long as we have a management who lies and deceives as a way of doing business.

 

[VeeOne]

Anyone that's just after a signing bonus certainly won't get a vote from me.

So far, WF is the only one that I know of that's been open about his opinions in these matters. Whether he's "short-fused" or not, retro is my #1 priority!

Retro Pay is a joke and a pipe dream......You might as well wish in one hand and S*&T in the other. We should have gone on strike 2 years ago to stop this 4 year circus. It's OUR fault for LETTING negotiations take this long. We are not entitled to retro- we didn't take the hard line when we should have.

(Waiting patiently for insult rather than logic)...................

 

[ASARJMan]

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

Sureeeeeeeeee you did, you management weenie!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Copydat]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

 

[601Pilot]

The ASAP program requires trust in Management to do the right thing. Management wants Mary Larson to run the program. She is like LJ in that she is only committed to herself and can't be trusted behind closed doors.quote]

Don't even get me started about that crazy bi-atch! Just be glad she doesn't fly the line.

 

[www.]

We should have gone on strike 2 years ago to stop this 4 year circus. It's OUR fault for LETTING negotiations take this long.

(Waiting patiently for insult rather than logic)...................

Learn about the process junior.

 

[VeeOne]

Learn about the process junior.

I know a lot about the process, and your not mean enough to call me junior......@$$

 

[ASADriver]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

That's what I heard also. There were some ligitimate concerns at first. However the company has agreed to the union's concerns. Politics is more important than safety.

 

[Bizjet]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

You can't have protection of your ticket when you have a management that can't be trusted to manage an ASAP program properly. I would never file an ASAP report at ASA. They are incompent and will misuse the program. Your career would be better served trusting the FAA than this management. File a NASA report and forget ASAP until we get rid of this group of management buffons.