ASA ALPA Atlanta elections

[John Pennekamp]

Your wrong about this one.

Her goal is to put JB on the CNC and she will be on it also. She tried this before and the best that could be done is JB in the back room.

Look at history for the future.

Probably true. I think they'll be doing everything themselves. They'll be sick of it after 90 days. Of course, we all know she doesn't want the job for the long haul. She just wants to torpedo the contract, then resign to take the management job she's been promised. She'll then leave someone else to clean up the mess.

 

[Plug]

I remember Scott Hall mentioning Lynn's name aa a replacement for Bob. A. when he retired. No doubt, Lynn and Scott are in kahoots (sp?). If you want a contract now that gives management tons of wiggle room then vote for Lynn and her group of minions. If you want something else, anything else, seek other options!

 

[ASApuppy]

Unfortunately, I am finding my expectations for this contract to be pivotal to the Skywest union vote. Right now, I feel we need to "One-up" their pay and work rules. It is important to jump ahead. However, if they vote down the union, then priorities might change. I'd be willing to vote in status quo on payrates with the written promise of aircraft transfer back to us as well as all their newly acquired 900's. We should also lower our EMB-120 rate to lower than theirs in hope that the bean counters in SGU will transfer some of those aircraft as well. There are several markets out of ATL that would be better served with a Brasilia. That would also dramatically reduce our upgrade times.

 

[www.]

1. I'd be willing to vote in status quo on payrates with the written promise of aircraft transfer back to us as well as all their newly acquired 900's.
2. We should also lower our EMB-120 rate to lower than theirs in hope that the bean counters in SGU will transfer some of those aircraft as well.
3. There are several markets out of ATL that would be better served with a Brasilia. That would also dramatically reduce our upgrade times.

1. Just like CMR had it in ink. It means nothing. Open your eyes.
2. Now you know what markets need a certain airplane? If it was about the money JA would have transfered the CRJs to ASA. Get it.
3. Uh, have you looked at the contract. Do you have 3000TT?

 

[Copydat]

I have been here long enough to realize that several of the side letters we love some much were generated while LJ and DW were in management. If the side letters generated while they were in management are a indication of their loyalty then I want more. My battle is to get a better contract not fight a personal battle between the RJ Coalition and ALPA. The last four years have produced no improvement in quality of life that I can think of. O yeah, there was that grievance where we were to get a Wendy's meal voucher but that was struck down and I was given $5 in the next paycheck. Then there was the three CDO grievance. O, we lost that one. Then there was ASAP. Lets make that a contingency of the contract. Why not tell NASA that we do not want anything to do with their safety program as well. Face the facts, our current leaders are either at a loss of ideas or unwilling to move toward a contract resolution. We take a Wilson Poll and before the results have time to be sorted Duane Worth files for binding arbitration. It seems that his opinion is worth more than ours. The fantastic four may not be the answer but there has got to be some positive results from the current union leadership for me to cast a vote of confidence. I am not asking for a no holes barred approach to contract settlement but I do want a union that can interact and function with management. If ASAP, which is totally about safety, can not be agreed on then we do not have the proper interaction between the two parties and the house on both sides of the table should be cleaned.

 

[www.]

1. I have been here long enough to realize that several of the side letters we love some much were generated while LJ and DW were in management. If the side letters generated while they were in management are a indication of their loyalty then I want more.

2. Then there was the three CDO grievance. O, we lost that one.

1. I didn't see LJ name on any of the side letters. I do see DW name.

2. And why did we loose that one? Yeah, someone lied on the stand. Even an ALPA atty that was involed with the last contract said that this person didn't tell the truth.

So it's always the MECs fault?

 

[goahead]

So it's always the MECs fault?

Love it......

 

[VeeOne]

Unfortunately, I am finding my expectations for this contract to be pivotal to the Skywest union vote. Right now, I feel we need to "One-up" their pay and work rules. It is important to jump ahead. However, if they vote down the union, then priorities might change. I'd be willing to vote in status quo on payrates with the written promise of aircraft transfer back to us as well as all their newly acquired 900's. We should also lower our EMB-120 rate to lower than theirs in hope that the bean counters in SGU will transfer some of those aircraft as well. There are several markets out of ATL that would be better served with a Brasilia. That would also dramatically reduce our upgrade times.

I completely agree with this assessment.........

 

[FightingIrish]

I GUARANTEE the ALPA volunteers will quit. I know most of them! It will take Lynn 90 days just to form a new CNC and get it up to speed. Oh, and we'll have to assess the members because National will cut off financial support for negotiations too. You see, National doesn't like to see their money go to waste.

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

 

[Copydat]

LJ was the contract administrator for the company. She was in charge of making sure the company interpreted it correctly. Generally her tenure is considered a "honeymoon period" for ALPA and management as we got a few desirable side letters signed and were not beat up on too bad. I am sure there are other opinions as some one is always getting the screws put to them by management.

 

[FightingIrish]

For those of us who haven't made up our minds, what are the other candidates proposing to settle this contract. We know what the coalition of 4 has proposed, but I haven't heard much from the other side. Do they have anything new to offer, or are they proposing the same thing we have been doing for 4 years?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

1. I didn't see LJ name on any of the side letters. I do see DW name.

I would vote for DW in a second, he has been involved with good things, LJ, NFW!

Dick

 

[frapper]

Anyone that's just after a signing bonus certainly won't get a vote from me.

So far, WF is the only one that I know of that's been open about his opinions in these matters. Whether he's "short-fused" or not, retro is my #1 priority!

 

[FightingIrish]

I would vote for DW in a second, he has been involved with good things, LJ, NFW!

Dick

I know DW and I have asked him about what he thinks. He is endorsing the coalition of 4. He has good things to say about LJ.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

Well, if a volunteer doesn't agree with the agenda of the MEC leadership then it would only be logical for that volunteer to quit. Why should I, as an ALPA volunteer who does stuff to try to help you with my free time, continue in that position under a leadership I don't approve of? Don't like it? Join a committee. If the coalition of four wins, I'm sure there will be plenty of vacancies.

 

[JustaNumber]

If ASAP, which is totally about safety, can not be agreed on then we do not have the proper interaction between the two parties and the house on both sides of the table should be cleaned.

This is faulty logic. If one side of two negotiating teams is being completely unreasonable, why should both sides be replaced?

It sounds like you weren't paying attention during the whole ASAP fiasco. ALPA, or to put it more correctly, the ASA pilots, simply wanted an ASAP program just like other ASAP programs that are standard throughout the industry. Management wanted the union to waive all greivance protections associated with any incident. (Lets say the company agreed to retrain a pilot for some reason under the program. Without grievance protections, they could refuse to pay the pilot, or punish him in other ways). No other airline in the industry waived those protections, except for Comair. Considering how our management manages to take advantage of our pilots at every turn, it would have been completely irresponsible to agree to that. I believe that while most pilots really want ASAP, they supported our MEC's stance.

The same goes for most other issues that our current representatives are working on. Can anyone actually fault their methods? They have determined what the pilot group as a whole wants, and they are doing everything possible to make those things happen. Just because management hasn't agreed to everything we want (yet!) doesn't mean we need to fire our elected representatives. I think they have succeeded in representing us.

 

[ASADriver]

This is faulty logic. If one side of two negotiating teams is being completely unreasonable, why should both sides be replaced?

It sounds like you weren't paying attention during the whole ASAP fiasco. ALPA, or to put it more correctly, the ASA pilots, simply wanted an ASAP program just like other ASAP programs that are standard throughout the industry. Management wanted the union to waive all greivance protections associated with any incident. (Lets say the company agreed to retrain a pilot for some reason under the program. Without grievance protections, they could refuse to pay the pilot, or punish him in other ways). No other airline in the industry waived those protections, except for Comair. Considering how our management manages to take advantage of our pilots at every turn, it would have been completely irresponsible to agree to that. I believe that while most pilots really want ASAP, they supported our MEC's stance.

The same goes for most other issues that our current representatives are working on. Can anyone actually fault their methods? They have determined what the pilot group as a whole wants, and they are doing everything possible to make those things happen. Just because management hasn't agreed to everything we want (yet!) doesn't mean we need to fire our elected representatives. I think they have succeeded in representing us.

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

 

[JustaNumber]

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

Does anyone have the union version of what's currently going on with ASAP? It seems there's always two sides to everything around here.

 

[www.]

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

Isn't that what LJ did.

And you offered your services when?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Are you saying that the current ALPA volunteers will not work with whoever WE elect? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for, but it is disturbing to hear that the current union people won't work with people who the pilots elect. I have to tell you, ALPA is acting like a bunch of junior high school girls. Grow up!

Are you talking about that Sec/Tres guy who doesn't show up to meetings?

 

[Bizjet]

I know DW and I have asked him about what he thinks. He is endorsing the coalition of 4. He has good things to say about LJ.

I know him also and he would never make a statement like that unless he was just jerking your chain. DW is not a union member and he clould not care less who is in office for ALPA.

LJ left her management position because she was going to be removed from it. She was trying to do the job via her cell phone from her boat and got caught being AWOL too many times. Her track record in management was as bad as her track record for ALPA. She is all about LJ and JB and everyone else is just an object to be used and discarded.

 

[Bizjet]

Does anyone have the union version of what's currently going on with ASAP? It seems there's always two sides to everything around here.

Management made a total mockery of ASAP. They were under tremendous pressure from Delta to get the program in place but they would only sign a Comair style ASAP MOU. Delta ALPA was being pushed to sign the same type MOU as well. Delta ALPA refused as ASA had earlier rufused. The ASAP program requires trust in Management to do the right thing. Management wants Mary Larson to run the program. She is like LJ in that she is only committed to herself and can't be trusted behind closed doors.

Delta ALPA finally got their MOU signed but had some issues that almost caused it to withdraw MEC support. It requires a good working relationship with a management that is trustworthy. So how much do the ASA pilots trust this management? JA wants ASA to have an ASAP program because the FAA is pushing for it. Well he better clean house at ASA or he will be waiting a long time. An ASAP program with the current ASA management would be a total disaster at ASA. I have been at ASA over 20 years and would never self disclose via the program as long as we have a management who lies and deceives as a way of doing business.

 

[VeeOne]

Anyone that's just after a signing bonus certainly won't get a vote from me.

So far, WF is the only one that I know of that's been open about his opinions in these matters. Whether he's "short-fused" or not, retro is my #1 priority!

Retro Pay is a joke and a pipe dream......You might as well wish in one hand and S*&T in the other. We should have gone on strike 2 years ago to stop this 4 year circus. It's OUR fault for LETTING negotiations take this long. We are not entitled to retro- we didn't take the hard line when we should have.

(Waiting patiently for insult rather than logic)...................

 

[ASARJMan]

I talked to a member of the safety committee about this. He said that the company has now agreed to everything the union wants in the ASAP program. However the union is still refusing. He supports ALPA, but can't understand why the union won't agree to the ASAP now.

Sureeeeeeeeee you did, you management weenie!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Copydat]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

 

[601Pilot]

The ASAP program requires trust in Management to do the right thing. Management wants Mary Larson to run the program. She is like LJ in that she is only committed to herself and can't be trusted behind closed doors.quote]

Don't even get me started about that crazy bi-atch! Just be glad she doesn't fly the line.

 

[www.]

We should have gone on strike 2 years ago to stop this 4 year circus. It's OUR fault for LETTING negotiations take this long.

(Waiting patiently for insult rather than logic)...................

Learn about the process junior.

 

[VeeOne]

Learn about the process junior.

I know a lot about the process, and your not mean enough to call me junior......@$$

 

[ASADriver]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

That's what I heard also. There were some ligitimate concerns at first. However the company has agreed to the union's concerns. Politics is more important than safety.

 

[Bizjet]

The union did right by not signing an ASAP letter that was anything beyond the FAA boilerplate. However, it is true the company capitulated and the union still will not sign. If you believe there is still justification for not signing I am afraid you are not thinking through this clearly. ASAP should not be used as a negotiating tool. You may need the program yourself and not have it available. Safety and the protection of our tickets should not be a negotiating tool.

You can't have protection of your ticket when you have a management that can't be trusted to manage an ASAP program properly. I would never file an ASAP report at ASA. They are incompent and will misuse the program. Your career would be better served trusting the FAA than this management. File a NASA report and forget ASAP until we get rid of this group of management buffons.