Your Pay Cut

[FLB717]

General,
This is one of those points that I differ. Even is CMR ASA do not take cuts (CMR wont) thier growth (has slowed some ) will continue because they are makin MoNay. Even Leo knows better. As far as Leo winning in the strike hope does 15-20 cents per hour match up to:

1 Billion/90 days/1350pilots = $823 per pilot per day = .15cents hr?
I dont have an MBA so I may not be qualified to understand.

 

[blzr]

Hey General...

When is Leo going to realize that there are plenty of guys out here that would fly a 757 for $60/hr. You guys at the majors really should be trying to stop the "Race to the Bottom" or just go ahead and line your pockets for a little while longer. It will be Mesa or some yet to be named contractor that will sit down with the majors and say " We can do it for CHEAP". You think Management wouldn't drop you like a bad habbit?

The majors are contracting out commuter flying to the lowest bidders.

The majors are contracting out maintenance to the lowest bidders.

You guys making $200k a year will be next. Mark my words.

You say it would be against your contract, Virtually every contract at U.S. Airways has been changed or ignored my Dave Siegel and his management team.

You say it would be against your scope? Remains to bee seen if your scope and that of the other majors will stand up in court. I doubt it will.

General Lee, you and the rest of the pilots at all the majors should be 100% behing CHA and any other regional standing up for better pay and way of life. If you don't, you will be next. Management will not stop until all of us are in the poor house.

 

[FLB717]

Blzr, ....AMEN BROTHER

 

[Palerider957]

Blzr..

You sir, nailed the heart of the issue....100% If management thinks they can take money away from regional FO's making 19K a year, fat-cat mainline pilots are DEFINITELY the next target.

I can't afford pay cuts, simply can't. DAL pilots looking at 22% paycuts will still be the highest paid pilots in the industry--still a big target.

If ALPA and DAL pilots had any forsight, they would be backing us 100% and walk the line with us if things get that bad.

The DAL pilot group must realize that their fates and the fates of WO pilots are cloesely linked together---Stop trying to pis.s on us and lend a hand. A little brotherhood would go a long way right now.

General, if your pilot group made a public statement supporting the WO's in their contract battles, you would be rewarded in kind. You don't have to merge seniorty lists, or let us fly 757's, but mutual support and respect for the WO's could be very valuable to your group in the future, bad will doesn't help anyone....we are not without power.

I for one am tired of the galactic battle between mainline and regional, it weakens us ALL.

Come out puiblicly and support a FAIR and REASONABLE wage and work rules for regional pilots--do it as a union (less incentive to transfer flying to regionals), and we would support your wages and work rules (respect for veteran pilots who have put in their time)

Just something to think about--an olive branch......

 

[badog]

Hey, let mangmnt take the major hit in the wage bucket? After all they make the BIG money and the line pilots earn most of it RIGHT! Agree to EQUAL wage cuts based on salary, ( Yeah Right)

General, consider Deltas' business plan, " We have enough cash to ride this out". Great strategy if I owned stock in a co. that made that idoitic statement, I'd sell FAST and I did.
As for the war being over, I guess you don't read the papers or watch the news, 'cause there's still Americans dying over there in sandville protecting your right to earn big wages my friend. let's face it, It's a race to the bottom with the airline holding the most RJs' winning.

BD

 

[stillaboo]

The DAL pilot group must realize that their fates and the fates of WO pilots are cloesely linked together---Stop trying to pis.s on us and lend a hand. A little brotherhood would go a long way right now.

The fates of ALL pilots are linked together, not just WO. Regional drivers need to stop beating each other up (I think every pilot at Mesa is well aware that their fellow regional pilots though they should have gotten a better contract, and Eagle guys are pretty clear that their contract is too long) before we can ask mainline to help us out. Lead by example.

As far as DAL supporting RJ drivers (and their prop brotha's), it works both ways. CMR isn't exactly embracing DAL furloughs. Again, lead by example if necessary.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." -Ben Franklin

-Boo!

 

[Palerider957]

Stillaboo:

I stand corrected. Yes, all pilots must stand together for better waged and work conditions. And I did not mean to exclude our turboprop bretheren, using "RJ" was just a convenient term.

Unity is especially important for mainline and WO's because we are a part of the same company--like it or not. Both sides need to come to grips with that.

Yes, CMR hasn't taken in furloughees while letting them keep their DAL #. In this case you must remember DALs aquisition of CMR was a hostile takeover, leaving some bad blood.

 

[Otto_Pilot]

resigning seniority

I dont mean to open old wounds but every furloughed airline pilot who comes to work for Comair is required to resign his/her seniority.

I just dont see why Delta pilots should be exempt.

Why should they be treated any differently then the United, US Airways, TWAmerican, Eagle, etc... pilots who have been willing to resign in exchange for a job offer from Comair?

If they were exempt from that requirement, wouldnt it open Comair to potential lawsuits from other furloughees who were required to resign?

After all, if you do change the policy, you cant give the numbers back to pilots who've already resigned. What is good for one, is good for all. No one pilot should be treated any differently than any other.

Just my opinion.

 

[Capt America]

The bottom line is that no one should have to give up thier number. Each companies pilot group should strongly push for this. We do not require it and each guy will be here long enough for the company to see a return on thier investment.

 

[Capt America]

Well, with the competition already trying to lower the bar for you (Skywest, Mesa), you probably won't have the highest wages in the industry. Your management will say, "We have to stay competitive if we want to continue to expand....." Most of your junior people will want to upgrade faster and they will vote for expansion. Delta will probably pressure your management to keep the wages and costs low, and that will be passed on to you. Face it, this is the worst time ever for our whole industry. The industry line is, "Give up some pay, and fly another day." We are doing the same thing, and just watch---in two years the industry will be booming again, and where will our pay raises be? Gone. Can we ask for them back? Nope. That is why we are being proactive and setting our own schedule and rules. I hope you do the same

This will only come true if we let it. We need to educate or new guys. Growth is not always the best answer.

 

[blott]

Probably already been thought of but,

Ok, so lets assume Delta wants consessions from the Delta Mailine guys. Now the delta guys don't have to play ball with management and give them this-BUT-lets say the pilots are willing to give a little anyways to "help out" their company. The Delta pilots have been around the block a few times, and I'm sure they would include some type of "snap back" deal to reverse the pay cuts when things are better. In a show of "good faith" between the pilots and management-the pilot group will present this to Delta before they try to pressure the pilot group-and included in this proposal- a clause that voids all the seniority resignations of the furloughed pilots if they choose to return from the commuters-read COMAIR here. Comair might not like this cause they now all the guys will leave as soon as delta calls-so put in a length of service deal, or some kind of monentary penalty, like the training fee some company's have if you leave before a certain time.



B

UNITY!!!

 

[stillaboo]

While I do think it's a shame that some mainline guys have had to give up seniority to go regional, that doesn't mean that the policy doesn't need to be changed.
Will some guys get screwed? Yeah, sure, all of the guys who gave up their seniority. But that's better than EVERYONE! And, on top of that, CMR is a leader in this industry. Don't do it for the rest of the regionals, do it for yourselves. Someday YOU may be furloughed from mainline, and you shouldn't have to give up your seniority to go fly for a regional again either.

Progress in this battle will not come easily. If everyone makes small gains, then, eventually, these small gains will add up over time into something big over time.

Think long term.

-Boo!

 

[General Lee]

Stillaboo,

I don't understand what you are saying? Are you for or against the resignation policy at Comair?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[stillaboo]

While I do think it's a shame that some mainline guys have had to give up seniority to go regional, that doesn't mean that the policy doesn't need to be changed.
-Boo!

What I meant by that was that just b/c some former mainliners who now fly RJ's would be pissed that they gave up their seniority b/f a new policy of not having to give it up came into place doesn't mean that the new policy shouldn't be implemented still. Better to screw a couple guys who already gave up their seniority then to continue a policy where mainliners should expect to give up seniority to fly for a regional. The ultimate good of pilots as a whole is NOT served by forcing guys to give up seniority at a more desireable position to fly for a less desirable one.

I really don't understand why any CMR pilot could be for a policy of forced seniority resignation, unless it's just to spite DALPA. Someday many of them might be furloughed from mainline, and they will rue the day they decided it was a good idea to force mainliners to give up seniority to work regional. Staple mainline furloughs to the bottom or something, it's better than nothing (if mainline is 'too good' for 1st year FO pay on the junior equipment, then they don't have to take it). Furthermore, this might teach some of the mainliners why they need to help their regional bretheren raise the pay of a 1st year regional FO, instead of just poo-pooing the efforts of regional pilots from the right seat of a mainliner. I can guarantee you mainliners will care more about regional contracts if their pilots might actaully have to work under these contracts (sentencing some DALPA guys to hard time as a Mesa FO on reserve might be a swift dose of reality!). The only guys who get hurt in this are future newhires, and, being that they aren't identifiable and aren't part of the union, why should their interests be put before mainline furloughs, paying dues members of your union, particularly ones from your own company (a common parent company, at least)?

All of us pilots need to work together and stop all this infighting over what are, in the end, petty issues.

In short, General, I'm against CMR's current policy.

-Boo!

 

[General Lee]

Boo,

That is what I thought. There might be a lot of Comair pilots that want to spite the mainline pilots, but it is good that you do not. Being a Delta furlough is probably not easy for those pilots because everybody knows that eventually they would want to go back. With the bad job market, it isn't easy for them. If ASA can drop that policy, I am sure Comair could do the same. But you are right, some of our pilots might not want to go over, and that is their decision. It would be nice for them to be able to if they wanted to, and I bet some would. Thank you for the clarification on your stance.

Bye Bye--General Lee