Your Pay Cut

[FLB717]

Syllogism,

I started to fire off a turse reply, then I realised you share many of the same feelings I do, not all but most. Glad to see you dont eat the cookies and drink the cool-aid, but think for your self. It was apleasure to walk with you.

General,

Delta will most likly get cuts from you, I dont think they will from CMR. Leo didnt win during the strike no one did. But it cost Delta a lot (over 500 million easy) most pilots noticed a loss but not like the company did. I know the Comair guys they wont take a cut and that for you is your best deffense, it makes your flying more attractive. Comair and ASA will continue to grow. I sat next to a DCI Manager on a MD88 from CVG to ALT prior to 9-11 and that was the plan from the beggining. you should pm me it was an interesting chat.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Syllogism,

You don't get to post ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there has to be a limit on the legnth of a post and you certainly exceeded that!!!

WD.

 

[General Lee]

FLB717,

We have already told management that we don't have to give them anything and if they expect too much we will pull out of any negotiations and see them in May of 2005. We understand that we might be "part of the solution" and will probably contribute, but they are not making us do anything. Also, we will get things in return for any concession, like a contract extension or snapbacks. I know the Comair strike didn't help anyone and cost Delta big bucks, but Leo did win----all of the other airline CEO's probably gave him a big high 5 for keeping those costs down for the industry. It cost the airline a lot of money, but they saved a lot by holding out. I know you worked there and this is a bad subject for you. But look, now you fly a 717 for a good airline.
There you go. But, Delta will probably go to Comair and ASA and push them around a bit looking for cuts. To say otherwise is foolish. Now, whether or not Comair pilots will give anything is another story, but Delta will come a knockin.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Otto_Pilot]

hang on...

FLB717 said, "I know the Comair guys they wont take a cut..."

IF Delta should ask the Comair pilots for concessions... and
IF the Comair pilots decline...

Do you really expect Delta to go scurrying back to College Park with their tail between their legs saying, "well ok, but we had to ask...thanks anyway"

The fact is that the environment has changed dramatically since the Comair strike. The NMB will not allow any airline strikes this year (much to the chagrin of the Chautauqua pilots).

You will be negotiating from a position of weakness and when you decline Delta will fight back. They will cancel deliveries and/or reassign them to other carriers. They will park airplanes while carriers like Chautauqua and ACA continue to grow. They will furlough pilots.

That is how the game is played. So while I believe, as you do, that the Comair pilots will say "no-thanks" to concessions -- lets be perfectly honest -- there will be consequences to that action.

 

[General Lee]

Otto,

That is true. We are negotiating now to try to get our current contract extended--as long as we can. But, we will offer probably 10-15% and some other lifestyle items, and then say take it or leave it. My bet is that they will take it, and then go on to the non-union employees. The only ones not getting huge pay cuts are the management types, although someone told me we might tie that in to our own cuts. Will they take it or not? Hmmmmm.

But yes, Comair and ASA will get asked, and not helping a bit might hurt their own expansion plans. Leo hasn't forgotten about the $1 billion or so Comair cost him during and after their strike.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Otto_Pilot]

shame

General,

We should also agree that it is disgusting that management should even be considering asking for concessions from pilots who make $22 per hour with a 75 hour guarantee.

The disparity in compensation from ALPA's most senior, mainline pilots and its most junior "regional" pilots is one of the reasons that management is so successful in whipsawing us against one another.

Regardless of what "will" happen -- Delta shouldnt be asking junior Comair F/Os to take concessions. In fact, in my opinion, no-one who earns less than $30,000/yr should be asked for anything.

This is just a job, afterall -- one we rely upon to raise our families, pay our mortgages, etc...

I'll be very disappointed in Delta if they stoop so low as to try and take pennies from the poor.

The old motto was, "Dont piss on the widget."

What happens when the widget pisses on you?

 

[General Lee]

Otto,

I know that would suck if they went to ask for money from Comair/ASA FO's, but it wouldn't surprise me. They obviously don't care about how people feel, look at the 1310 pilots out on the street. What about the furloughed pilot families that are making squat right now? Management wants to fill their own pockets. You can bet that their bonuses are based off of how much they can get from all of the employment groups---yours included. Do you see any of them taking large cuts or saying, "as long as employees are furloughed or losing pay, I will not take a bonus or a pay raise...." Nope. But with other regionals accepting lower wages and insane work offers (50 seat wages on 99 seat airraft), expect them to come asking.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[LearLove]

Pay Cuts...here's mine...still hurts

Feb 02 was at 29.85 then to 47 as Capt then 49 as Capt then back to 29.85 then back to 27.01 with the concessions now popped back to 27.55 and will go to 28.51 this month. Per diem went from 1.45 to 1.35. I've been downgraded exactly one year now. $ucks to be me.

Currently I'm clearing around 1900-2000 per month after NY taxes, retro concessions , ALPA dues (AKA spending cash for mainline guys), 62 bucks for medical ins, and 15% into 401K, and some other crapola.

Average 90 hours (give or take a few)

90*27.55=2479.5

Take 15% for 401K and 25% for the rest so 40% away leaves
0.6*2479.5 =1487.7

add perdiem at around 310 hours TAFB at 1.35 so 310*1.35=418

Total take home pay is 418+1487.7=1902.60.

My expenses per month

360 - car
70 - car ins paid every 6 months
40 - gas
520 - rent
30 - electric
70 - phone
50 - cell phone
70 - cable
350 -food,home and on the road/ plus other household stuff ect.
250 - other stuff like internet bill, beer money, cloths, spending cash, hookers, ect....

total 1810 give or take a few.

1902-1810=92 left, cuttin it a little close, but I could always nix the cell and cable plus lower or cut out the 401K contribution if I need the extra $$. I average 370/month into the 401K so that plus the cell and cable would give me 490 extra if I was in a pinch. If I could only get back to 50/hour I'd feel like I was rich.
How you guys doin?

 

[Otto_Pilot]

General Lee

General,

As a furloughed "major" airline pilot and as a current "regional" airline pilot I think that I can say with confidence that I am intimately aware of the situation on both sides of the fence.

 

[General Lee]

Otto,

I know plenty of people like you, and I hope you all return to your chosen jobs. You are lucky to have found a job with a good regional--like Comair. Many of the Delta furloughs haven't been given that opportunity at Comair because it would require them to give up their Delta seniority numbers. I will not hash this out again, but being furloughed from some carriers is like having a curse. I don't know what Delta is going to do or ask for when it comes to Comair and ASA, but I just feel like they will come asking for something. We didn't have to do anything until May of 2005, but we decided to be proactive and help contribute, but we will not give everything back, and we want everyone to be a part of the solution. You can understand that, right? The only ones who will make out on this is management. They have the power to stop your growth and furlough (without the No furlough clause) your pilots. Chataqua is ready to expand more, as you know from the MCO experience. Just look at the schedules every month from DFW. I noticed they just picked up 3 daily round trips from DFW to LFT. That wasn't there in June. It will continue and you will unfortunately get squeezed out if management doesn't get what it wants. We have block hours and a No furlough clause that is still applicable. (we are trying to get the last 250 back in a grievance). I don't know if you have that type of protection.
We shall see. Good Luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee