Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Your Pay Cut
- Thread starter FLB717
- Start date
- Watchers 10
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
General Lee (and others who may still be mis-informed):
CHAUTAUQUA DID NOT AGREE TO LOWER PAY RATES FOR MORE GROWTH!
(okay, I'm done yelling)
The contract is 7 years old. It has been expired for 2 years. It was signed when we had J31s and Saabs, jets were but a distant dream. When we voted to strike, mgmt came back with the threat of codeshare loss, no more growth, etc. We've said fine, bring it on a@@holes. Am I getting through to you yet? WE HAVE NOT TAKEN CONCESSIONS, AND WILL NOT. BTW, for the 40 or 50th time on this board, our growth has a lot to do with the EMB airframe costing 7.5 million less a copy than the Canadair, and ASA and CMR retiring the Brakillya. Am I getting through yet? Hello, McFly!
(end of rant)
CHAUTAUQUA DID NOT AGREE TO LOWER PAY RATES FOR MORE GROWTH!
(okay, I'm done yelling)
The contract is 7 years old. It has been expired for 2 years. It was signed when we had J31s and Saabs, jets were but a distant dream. When we voted to strike, mgmt came back with the threat of codeshare loss, no more growth, etc. We've said fine, bring it on a@@holes. Am I getting through to you yet? WE HAVE NOT TAKEN CONCESSIONS, AND WILL NOT. BTW, for the 40 or 50th time on this board, our growth has a lot to do with the EMB airframe costing 7.5 million less a copy than the Canadair, and ASA and CMR retiring the Brakillya. Am I getting through yet? Hello, McFly!
(end of rant)
Re: Pay Cuts...here's mine...still hurts
Don't cut the 401(k)!!! They will withhold more taxes, obviously, plus ALPA will access more dues (they can only touch your taxable income) so the net increase will be negligible. But you stand to reap big gains in retirement if you keep contributing. They power of compounding intrest is huge.
It's almost scary how similar your finances are to mine...
[End thread hijack]
LearLove said:
Don't cut the 401(k)!!! They will withhold more taxes, obviously, plus ALPA will access more dues (they can only touch your taxable income) so the net increase will be negligible. But you stand to reap big gains in retirement if you keep contributing. They power of compounding intrest is huge.
It's almost scary how similar your finances are to mine...
[End thread hijack]
Singlecoil
I don't reMember
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2002
- Posts
- 1,273
General Lee,
Has Delta proposed altering your retirement plan at all? I ask because Alaska announced they want a 23% cut and to cancel the A-fund for all new hires, while upping the B-fund from 3% to 6%. I hope it is meant to be a joke. I think Alaska is the second highest paid right now, behind Delta.
I hope it goes well for you guys.
Has Delta proposed altering your retirement plan at all? I ask because Alaska announced they want a 23% cut and to cancel the A-fund for all new hires, while upping the B-fund from 3% to 6%. I hope it is meant to be a joke. I think Alaska is the second highest paid right now, behind Delta.
I hope it goes well for you guys.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Singlecoil,
No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthed our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.
Bye Bye--General Lee
No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthed our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Singlecoil,
No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthen our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.
Bye Bye--General Lee
No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthen our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Singlecoil
I don't reMember
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2002
- Posts
- 1,273
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Skull-one,
Well, with the competition already trying to lower the bar for you (Skywest, Mesa), you probably won't have the highest wages in the industry. Your management will say, "We have to stay competitive if we want to continue to expand....." Most of your junior people will want to upgrade faster and they will vote for expansion. Delta will probably pressure your management to keep the wages and costs low, and that will be passed on to you. Face it, this is the worst time ever for our whole industry. The industry line is, "Give up some pay, and fly another day." We are doing the same thing, and just watch---in two years the industry will be booming again, and where will our pay raises be? Gone. Can we ask for them back? Nope. That is why we are being proactive and setting our own schedule and rules. I hope you do the same.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Well, with the competition already trying to lower the bar for you (Skywest, Mesa), you probably won't have the highest wages in the industry. Your management will say, "We have to stay competitive if we want to continue to expand....." Most of your junior people will want to upgrade faster and they will vote for expansion. Delta will probably pressure your management to keep the wages and costs low, and that will be passed on to you. Face it, this is the worst time ever for our whole industry. The industry line is, "Give up some pay, and fly another day." We are doing the same thing, and just watch---in two years the industry will be booming again, and where will our pay raises be? Gone. Can we ask for them back? Nope. That is why we are being proactive and setting our own schedule and rules. I hope you do the same.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee said:
How is a snap back getting something in return? It's getting what you already had. If you conceed and make no gains in return, isn't that a net loss?
I don't get it.
Skull-One said:
Neither has Mesa! They haven't exactly been a shining example of standing up to managment either, though.
Good luck with Republic, CHQ!
-Boo!
FLB717
Pilot=proof of Gods humor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Posts
- 627
General,
This is one of those points that I differ. Even is CMR ASA do not take cuts (CMR wont) thier growth (has slowed some ) will continue because they are makin MoNay. Even Leo knows better. As far as Leo winning in the strike hope does 15-20 cents per hour match up to:
1 Billion/90 days/1350pilots = $823 per pilot per day = .15cents hr?
I dont have an MBA so I may not be qualified to understand.
This is one of those points that I differ. Even is CMR ASA do not take cuts (CMR wont) thier growth (has slowed some ) will continue because they are makin MoNay. Even Leo knows better. As far as Leo winning in the strike hope does 15-20 cents per hour match up to:
1 Billion/90 days/1350pilots = $823 per pilot per day = .15cents hr?
I dont have an MBA so I may not be qualified to understand.
blzr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,502
Hey General...
When is Leo going to realize that there are plenty of guys out here that would fly a 757 for $60/hr. You guys at the majors really should be trying to stop the "Race to the Bottom" or just go ahead and line your pockets for a little while longer. It will be Mesa or some yet to be named contractor that will sit down with the majors and say " We can do it for CHEAP". You think Management wouldn't drop you like a bad habbit?
The majors are contracting out commuter flying to the lowest bidders.
The majors are contracting out maintenance to the lowest bidders.
You guys making $200k a year will be next. Mark my words.
You say it would be against your contract, Virtually every contract at U.S. Airways has been changed or ignored my Dave Siegel and his management team.
You say it would be against your scope? Remains to bee seen if your scope and that of the other majors will stand up in court. I doubt it will.
General Lee, you and the rest of the pilots at all the majors should be 100% behing CHA and any other regional standing up for better pay and way of life. If you don't, you will be next. Management will not stop until all of us are in the poor house.
When is Leo going to realize that there are plenty of guys out here that would fly a 757 for $60/hr. You guys at the majors really should be trying to stop the "Race to the Bottom" or just go ahead and line your pockets for a little while longer. It will be Mesa or some yet to be named contractor that will sit down with the majors and say " We can do it for CHEAP". You think Management wouldn't drop you like a bad habbit?
The majors are contracting out commuter flying to the lowest bidders.
The majors are contracting out maintenance to the lowest bidders.
You guys making $200k a year will be next. Mark my words.
You say it would be against your contract, Virtually every contract at U.S. Airways has been changed or ignored my Dave Siegel and his management team.
You say it would be against your scope? Remains to bee seen if your scope and that of the other majors will stand up in court. I doubt it will.
General Lee, you and the rest of the pilots at all the majors should be 100% behing CHA and any other regional standing up for better pay and way of life. If you don't, you will be next. Management will not stop until all of us are in the poor house.
Palerider957
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Posts
- 975
Blzr..
You sir, nailed the heart of the issue....100% If management thinks they can take money away from regional FO's making 19K a year, fat-cat mainline pilots are DEFINITELY the next target.
I can't afford pay cuts, simply can't. DAL pilots looking at 22% paycuts will still be the highest paid pilots in the industry--still a big target.
If ALPA and DAL pilots had any forsight, they would be backing us 100% and walk the line with us if things get that bad.
The DAL pilot group must realize that their fates and the fates of WO pilots are cloesely linked together---Stop trying to pis.s on us and lend a hand. A little brotherhood would go a long way right now.
General, if your pilot group made a public statement supporting the WO's in their contract battles, you would be rewarded in kind. You don't have to merge seniorty lists, or let us fly 757's, but mutual support and respect for the WO's could be very valuable to your group in the future, bad will doesn't help anyone....we are not without power.
I for one am tired of the galactic battle between mainline and regional, it weakens us ALL.
Come out puiblicly and support a FAIR and REASONABLE wage and work rules for regional pilots--do it as a union (less incentive to transfer flying to regionals), and we would support your wages and work rules (respect for veteran pilots who have put in their time)
Just something to think about--an olive branch......
You sir, nailed the heart of the issue....100% If management thinks they can take money away from regional FO's making 19K a year, fat-cat mainline pilots are DEFINITELY the next target.
I can't afford pay cuts, simply can't. DAL pilots looking at 22% paycuts will still be the highest paid pilots in the industry--still a big target.
If ALPA and DAL pilots had any forsight, they would be backing us 100% and walk the line with us if things get that bad.
The DAL pilot group must realize that their fates and the fates of WO pilots are cloesely linked together---Stop trying to pis.s on us and lend a hand. A little brotherhood would go a long way right now.
General, if your pilot group made a public statement supporting the WO's in their contract battles, you would be rewarded in kind. You don't have to merge seniorty lists, or let us fly 757's, but mutual support and respect for the WO's could be very valuable to your group in the future, bad will doesn't help anyone....we are not without power.
I for one am tired of the galactic battle between mainline and regional, it weakens us ALL.
Come out puiblicly and support a FAIR and REASONABLE wage and work rules for regional pilots--do it as a union (less incentive to transfer flying to regionals), and we would support your wages and work rules (respect for veteran pilots who have put in their time)
Just something to think about--an olive branch......
badog
Right career, Wrong time
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2003
- Posts
- 219
Hey, let mangmnt take the major hit in the wage bucket? After all they make the BIG money and the line pilots earn most of it RIGHT! Agree to EQUAL wage cuts based on salary, ( Yeah Right)
General, consider Deltas' business plan, " We have enough cash to ride this out". Great strategy if I owned stock in a co. that made that idoitic statement, I'd sell FAST and I did.
As for the war being over, I guess you don't read the papers or watch the news, 'cause there's still Americans dying over there in sandville protecting your right to earn big wages my friend. let's face it, It's a race to the bottom with the airline holding the most RJs' winning.
BD
General, consider Deltas' business plan, " We have enough cash to ride this out". Great strategy if I owned stock in a co. that made that idoitic statement, I'd sell FAST and I did.
As for the war being over, I guess you don't read the papers or watch the news, 'cause there's still Americans dying over there in sandville protecting your right to earn big wages my friend. let's face it, It's a race to the bottom with the airline holding the most RJs' winning.
BD
Palerider957 said:
The fates of ALL pilots are linked together, not just WO. Regional drivers need to stop beating each other up (I think every pilot at Mesa is well aware that their fellow regional pilots though they should have gotten a better contract, and Eagle guys are pretty clear that their contract is too long) before we can ask mainline to help us out. Lead by example.
As far as DAL supporting RJ drivers (and their prop brotha's), it works both ways. CMR isn't exactly embracing DAL furloughs. Again, lead by example if necessary.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." -Ben Franklin
-Boo!
Palerider957
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Posts
- 975
Stillaboo:
I stand corrected. Yes, all pilots must stand together for better waged and work conditions. And I did not mean to exclude our turboprop bretheren, using "RJ" was just a convenient term.
Unity is especially important for mainline and WO's because we are a part of the same company--like it or not. Both sides need to come to grips with that.
Yes, CMR hasn't taken in furloughees while letting them keep their DAL #. In this case you must remember DALs aquisition of CMR was a hostile takeover, leaving some bad blood.
I stand corrected. Yes, all pilots must stand together for better waged and work conditions. And I did not mean to exclude our turboprop bretheren, using "RJ" was just a convenient term.
Unity is especially important for mainline and WO's because we are a part of the same company--like it or not. Both sides need to come to grips with that.
Yes, CMR hasn't taken in furloughees while letting them keep their DAL #. In this case you must remember DALs aquisition of CMR was a hostile takeover, leaving some bad blood.
Otto_Pilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 69
resigning seniority
I dont mean to open old wounds but every furloughed airline pilot who comes to work for Comair is required to resign his/her seniority.
I just dont see why Delta pilots should be exempt.
Why should they be treated any differently then the United, US Airways, TWAmerican, Eagle, etc... pilots who have been willing to resign in exchange for a job offer from Comair?
If they were exempt from that requirement, wouldnt it open Comair to potential lawsuits from other furloughees who were required to resign?
After all, if you do change the policy, you cant give the numbers back to pilots who've already resigned. What is good for one, is good for all. No one pilot should be treated any differently than any other.
Just my opinion.
I dont mean to open old wounds but every furloughed airline pilot who comes to work for Comair is required to resign his/her seniority.
I just dont see why Delta pilots should be exempt.
Why should they be treated any differently then the United, US Airways, TWAmerican, Eagle, etc... pilots who have been willing to resign in exchange for a job offer from Comair?
If they were exempt from that requirement, wouldnt it open Comair to potential lawsuits from other furloughees who were required to resign?
After all, if you do change the policy, you cant give the numbers back to pilots who've already resigned. What is good for one, is good for all. No one pilot should be treated any differently than any other.
Just my opinion.
Capt America
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Posts
- 51
Capt America
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Posts
- 51
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
