Your Pay Cut

[Otto_Pilot]

shame

General,

We should also agree that it is disgusting that management should even be considering asking for concessions from pilots who make $22 per hour with a 75 hour guarantee.

The disparity in compensation from ALPA's most senior, mainline pilots and its most junior "regional" pilots is one of the reasons that management is so successful in whipsawing us against one another.

Regardless of what "will" happen -- Delta shouldnt be asking junior Comair F/Os to take concessions. In fact, in my opinion, no-one who earns less than $30,000/yr should be asked for anything.

This is just a job, afterall -- one we rely upon to raise our families, pay our mortgages, etc...

I'll be very disappointed in Delta if they stoop so low as to try and take pennies from the poor.

The old motto was, "Dont piss on the widget."

What happens when the widget pisses on you?

 

[General Lee]

Otto,

I know that would suck if they went to ask for money from Comair/ASA FO's, but it wouldn't surprise me. They obviously don't care about how people feel, look at the 1310 pilots out on the street. What about the furloughed pilot families that are making squat right now? Management wants to fill their own pockets. You can bet that their bonuses are based off of how much they can get from all of the employment groups---yours included. Do you see any of them taking large cuts or saying, "as long as employees are furloughed or losing pay, I will not take a bonus or a pay raise...." Nope. But with other regionals accepting lower wages and insane work offers (50 seat wages on 99 seat airraft), expect them to come asking.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[LearLove]

Pay Cuts...here's mine...still hurts

Feb 02 was at 29.85 then to 47 as Capt then 49 as Capt then back to 29.85 then back to 27.01 with the concessions now popped back to 27.55 and will go to 28.51 this month. Per diem went from 1.45 to 1.35. I've been downgraded exactly one year now. $ucks to be me.

Currently I'm clearing around 1900-2000 per month after NY taxes, retro concessions , ALPA dues (AKA spending cash for mainline guys), 62 bucks for medical ins, and 15% into 401K, and some other crapola.

Average 90 hours (give or take a few)

90*27.55=2479.5

Take 15% for 401K and 25% for the rest so 40% away leaves
0.6*2479.5 =1487.7

add perdiem at around 310 hours TAFB at 1.35 so 310*1.35=418

Total take home pay is 418+1487.7=1902.60.

My expenses per month

360 - car
70 - car ins paid every 6 months
40 - gas
520 - rent
30 - electric
70 - phone
50 - cell phone
70 - cable
350 -food,home and on the road/ plus other household stuff ect.
250 - other stuff like internet bill, beer money, cloths, spending cash, hookers, ect....

total 1810 give or take a few.

1902-1810=92 left, cuttin it a little close, but I could always nix the cell and cable plus lower or cut out the 401K contribution if I need the extra $$. I average 370/month into the 401K so that plus the cell and cable would give me 490 extra if I was in a pinch. If I could only get back to 50/hour I'd feel like I was rich.
How you guys doin?

 

[Otto_Pilot]

General Lee

General,

As a furloughed "major" airline pilot and as a current "regional" airline pilot I think that I can say with confidence that I am intimately aware of the situation on both sides of the fence.

 

[General Lee]

Otto,

I know plenty of people like you, and I hope you all return to your chosen jobs. You are lucky to have found a job with a good regional--like Comair. Many of the Delta furloughs haven't been given that opportunity at Comair because it would require them to give up their Delta seniority numbers. I will not hash this out again, but being furloughed from some carriers is like having a curse. I don't know what Delta is going to do or ask for when it comes to Comair and ASA, but I just feel like they will come asking for something. We didn't have to do anything until May of 2005, but we decided to be proactive and help contribute, but we will not give everything back, and we want everyone to be a part of the solution. You can understand that, right? The only ones who will make out on this is management. They have the power to stop your growth and furlough (without the No furlough clause) your pilots. Chataqua is ready to expand more, as you know from the MCO experience. Just look at the schedules every month from DFW. I noticed they just picked up 3 daily round trips from DFW to LFT. That wasn't there in June. It will continue and you will unfortunately get squeezed out if management doesn't get what it wants. We have block hours and a No furlough clause that is still applicable. (we are trying to get the last 250 back in a grievance). I don't know if you have that type of protection.
We shall see. Good Luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jaxson]

NO! NO! NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! No concessions. I have seen no proof of any successful management negotiations to reduce other costs. My time and skills are valuable and do not come at a discount. Shame on anyone in this industry who doesn't feel the same.

 

[aewanabe]

General Lee (and others who may still be mis-informed):

CHAUTAUQUA DID NOT AGREE TO LOWER PAY RATES FOR MORE GROWTH!

(okay, I'm done yelling)

The contract is 7 years old. It has been expired for 2 years. It was signed when we had J31s and Saabs, jets were but a distant dream. When we voted to strike, mgmt came back with the threat of codeshare loss, no more growth, etc. We've said fine, bring it on a@@holes. Am I getting through to you yet? WE HAVE NOT TAKEN CONCESSIONS, AND WILL NOT. BTW, for the 40 or 50th time on this board, our growth has a lot to do with the EMB airframe costing 7.5 million less a copy than the Canadair, and ASA and CMR retiring the Brakillya. Am I getting through yet? Hello, McFly!

(end of rant)

 

[4fanman]

Re: Pay Cuts...here's mine...still hurts

but I could always .....lower or cut out the 401K contribution if I need the extra $$. I average 370/month into the 401K so that plus the cell and cable would give me 490 extra if I was in a pinch.

Don't cut the 401(k)!!! They will withhold more taxes, obviously, plus ALPA will access more dues (they can only touch your taxable income) so the net increase will be negligible. But you stand to reap big gains in retirement if you keep contributing. They power of compounding intrest is huge.

It's almost scary how similar your finances are to mine...

[End thread hijack]

 

[Singlecoil]

General Lee,

Has Delta proposed altering your retirement plan at all? I ask because Alaska announced they want a 23% cut and to cancel the A-fund for all new hires, while upping the B-fund from 3% to 6%. I hope it is meant to be a joke. I think Alaska is the second highest paid right now, behind Delta.
I hope it goes well for you guys.

 

[General Lee]

Singlecoil,

No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthed our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Singlecoil,

No, and they cannot do anything to our retirement since it is in our contract. They could change it in Chap 11, but we have been told that we are not even close to that. The reason we are in negotiations right now is to give back a little pay in order to lengthen our contract date and stregthen our retirement. But, we are not going to give away the farm and will get something in return for any pay we give back. We told them that if they do not like what we offer, they could shove it and we would see them in May 2005 for a couple years worth of negotiations. They do have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005, so they may want our help. Also, they have not asked any other employees for help yet, so I have a feeling they will TAKE money from the non-union people and accept what we offer. But, as I have said, we will get something in return, like a snapback or extension. We intend to still be the highest when this is all over, which is good for everyone. Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Skull-One]

Don't listen to General Lee, aewannabe. GL is always s*itting on CHQ with false info.


CHQ has never accepted a concession since its unionization (if not its entire history)!

General Lee, either get your facts straight or SHUT UP!

 

[Singlecoil]

Somebody has to try to keep the bar high for everyone.

Three cheers for that!

 

[General Lee]

Skull-one,

Well, with the competition already trying to lower the bar for you (Skywest, Mesa), you probably won't have the highest wages in the industry. Your management will say, "We have to stay competitive if we want to continue to expand....." Most of your junior people will want to upgrade faster and they will vote for expansion. Delta will probably pressure your management to keep the wages and costs low, and that will be passed on to you. Face it, this is the worst time ever for our whole industry. The industry line is, "Give up some pay, and fly another day." We are doing the same thing, and just watch---in two years the industry will be booming again, and where will our pay raises be? Gone. Can we ask for them back? Nope. That is why we are being proactive and setting our own schedule and rules. I hope you do the same.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[stillaboo]

We will get things in return for any concession, like . . . snapbacks.

How is a snap back getting something in return? It's getting what you already had. If you conceed and make no gains in return, isn't that a net loss?

I don't get it.

CHQ has never accepted a concession since its unionization (if not its entire history)!

Neither has Mesa! They haven't exactly been a shining example of standing up to managment either, though.

Good luck with Republic, CHQ!

-Boo!