Your ALPA Dues At Work Part 1 / 3

[flyinboxes]

1. The numbers aren't accurate. They reflect the total amount charged to that individual. That includes medical/dental insurance premiums and payments, pension contributions, per diem, dislocation allowance (where applicable), and the car lease allowances for the officers. Further, Duane's pay is indexed and will go down this year.

2. Duane didn't set his compensation package...the BOD did. If you don't like the compensation package, call your reps to see how they voted on it. If they want to reduce any of those amounts, it can be done at this year's BOD meeting in October.

3. I missed the efforts to stop Foreign Ownership and Cabotage by APA, SWAPA, etc. Maybe if JetBlue's management would work as hard on stopping foreign ownership as they do to change flight time FAR's, we wouldn't need ALPA.

AMEN!

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Because not a single ALPA carrier has seen a better contract than their prior one since Delta in June of 2001! I mean come on, I was all for the major airline pilots to perhaps take a pay freeze after the effects of 9-11 took hold for maybe a couple years, but here we are 4.5 years after the fact and the cuts are still coming in waves. NWA's illustrious contract doesn't even keep up with inflation for it's term, so in essence they will be taking cuts until 2011 or whenever they get a new contract, most likely 2013 or so.

What does this have to do with you calling DW a "piece of trash?" Last I checked, all of these concessionary contracts were ratified by their general memberships. Secondly, XJT ratified a contract on 12/1/04 that was significantly better than its previous contract. I also believe that AWA's contract was better than its old one. So there are 2 ALPA contracts for you that go against your claim in your first sentence.

It would certainly be devastating to the employees of the airline that fails but life goes on. And I must ask this...How much lower can wages go before no one seeks this profession anymore? Jobs that used to be created at the Majors are being turned over to the dastardly regionals with these 50+ seat jets at pay rates that pale in comparison to what used to be the mainline. For a Captain not to be able to break 100K a year for flying even the smallest RJ is utterly atrocious!!

I know of several ALPA carriers where RJ captains have broken $100k per year. I'm not saying that the pay shouldn't be higher, but it is a fact that there are many $100k ALPA 50 seat RJ captains out there.

I don't mean to digress, but do you all know there are 1 million lawyers in the USA now. I bet less than 10% earn less than 100K and many earn in excess of 500K I'm sure. There are less than 1/10th as many airline pilots. And none earn even 300K anymore with most earning less than 100K, what with all the growth at the regionals where you just earn an average American wage as a captain mind you, the wage FO's make are not even worth mentioning as it is inconsequential. I am sure the airlines can find a way to pay their pilots and provide them with the QOL and workrules they had 5 to 10 years ago if their hand was forced.

Again, what does this have to do with calling DW a "piece of trash?" Also, reference this paragraph...don't forget those minor things called "market forces" and "supply and demand."

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

How on earth is a paralegal worth $100k?

Supply and demand. You get what you negotiate by the way...not necessarily what you are "worth."

I spend 200 days a year in a hotel in some god forsaken place and
spend many 14 hr days in an airport not to mention the Ozone dangers
i am experiencing, all for less than 25K. WTF?

I've seen you say this ad-nauseum on this board over time. If you don't like your company, leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay there. I simply can't understand how it is possible for you to spend 200 days in all of those "God forsakesn places." It is quite possible at my company to spend less than 8 nights a month in a hotel if you really wanted to. If you don't like hotels, don't bid for those 4-day trips. Go find the 2-days and day trips.

When they say they "Negotiated" the contracts? What Negotaitions took
place? How do you negotiate less than minimum wage?

The ALPA admin staff negotiated their contracts with ALPA staff managers. That is what is being referred to here. And if you are referring to pilots, don't forget that all of these contracts are ratified by the rank and file.

How can DW relate to the pilots today that are making poverty wages when
he is making $500k? Walk a mile in my shoes pal.....

I'm quite sure that all pilots, at some point in their career, have made crap money and endured less than ideal working conditions. That said, don't forget that DW was furloughed early in his career.

-Neal

 

[pipejockey]

Originally Posted by Tejas-Jet
Hello-oooo....did 9-11 not have a negative effect on the entire airline industry when that happened? How about $60 barrel of oil? Think that doesn't hurt? At what point did your expect to see the industry turn around? In 6 months?...a year?...when?

9-11 is old news. It has no bearing on todays environment. Passengers are flying in the same numbers as they were. And I expected the industry to turn around in 2 years from then to answer your question.

Originally Posted by Tejas-Jet
Tell you what....since you seem so quick to want to see a pilot group go out on strike....why don't you walk out .....tomorrow....let us know what happens.

I would in a heartbeat but no one would join me!

Originally Posted by BluDevAv8r
Secondly, XJT ratified a contract on 12/1/04 that was significantly better than its previous contract. I also believe that AWA's contract was better than its old one. So there are 2 ALPA contracts for you that go against your claim in your first sentence.

Ok, Ill give you that. But Express Jet's contract was soooo bad it could only go up. And I wouldn't call the new contract good. Compared to others maybe but you still can't call that a career job unless you join them in your 20s and have little debt. For someone older than 30 it would be nearly impossible to live on the FO pay for 5 years. And don't tell me about their 2 year upgrade, that is a flash in the pan and will disappear soon if it hasn't already, what with the potential loss of 69 aircraft. And I wouldn't be surprised management comes sniffing around for concessions either.

Originally Posted by BluDevAv8r
I know of several ALPA carriers where RJ captains have broken $100k per year. I'm not saying that the pay shouldn't be higher, but it is a fact that there are many $100k ALPA 50 seat RJ captains out there.

Those captains you speak of have even less of a life at home then the rest of us who already have no home life to begin with. They probably have few attachments and don't mind living on the road over 20 days a month. Impossible to attain on monthly gaurantee though.

Originally Posted by BluDevAv8r
The ALPA admin staff negotiated their contracts with ALPA staff managers. That is what is being referred to here. And if you are referring to pilots, don't forget that all of these contracts are ratified by the rank and file.

So if we look at all those ALPA people's salary earned in the year 2001 and compare it to today we will see significantly less being paid in wages today? I mean come on, with all the cuts their union members have taken the past 4 years they couldn't actually have the audacity to allow themselves to earn more could they?

Originally Posted by BluDevAv8r
It is quite possible at my company to spend less than 8 nights a month in a hotel if you really wanted to. If you don't like hotels, don't bid for those 4-day trips. Go find the 2-days and day trips.

Please tell me where this is, as I don't know any airline where you don't have to spend at least half of your life in a hotel.

Originally Posted by BluDevAv8r
Again, what does this have to do with calling DW a "piece of trash?"

OK. I am to the point of being maddd as hell and not being able to take it anymore. I lashed out at Woerthless since he is the head honcho and feel he hasn't fought hard enough for us. I mean its not as if he is earning an airline pilots wage...he is earning 500K, I expect a little more for that kind of salary.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

...he is earning 500K, I expect a little more for that kind of salary.

Let's see....you already said that you would walk out "in a heartbeat" but nobody else would join you. That tells me you are pretty much out in left field on this issue....and it doesn't look like you are getting too much support from the FlightInfo.com crowd.

OK....so your own pilot group doesn't want to fight....but you're mad at Duane Woerth. Looks like you've got to get out there and sell your peers on your ideas....and quit blaming Capt. Woerth for your own pilot groups lack of "cojones"...or your poor selling skills.

But, prepare for the news that you could very well be the only one out there in left field.

Tejas

 

[pipejockey]

You see Tejas, this airline I work for is not a career airline. People will leave here at the first possible moment something better comes along. People have left here to go to regionals even. The way most of the pilot group around here feels is why fight for any improvement when they are out of here when something better comes along. The only people who will stay long-term are those who are too old to go anywhere else or are close to retirement. We have tons of old Eastern, Pan Am, Ryan, Emery guys around here. Then their are the younger generation of us who still have time to get some good experience and get the heck out!! Like me!! NWA, Delta etc etc are all career airlines, and should be fought tooth and nail to keep it that way.