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You Must Hear Both Sides

Lumpsum

Active member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Posts
33
This post is for all the viewers who are patiently viewing this website in search of valid information to help make a fully informed decision.
Haters can go ahead and hate, but the truth is still out there.

To add any credence to the validity of this website it is only right and fair to hear both sides of a discussion. As mature professional pilots we owe it to ourselves to gather information from both sides so we can make an informed decision. There are two websites that provide information, OSCrewLounge.com and VoteForFlexjet.com.

I urge you to watch the latest video from Mr. Ricci. I know every Flexjet pilot has access to it because it was sent via text.

This is from OSCrewLounge.com

HEADLINES AND YOU

The U.S. will face a staggering shortage of pilots over the next two decades,
87 new pilots will need to be trained and ready to fly a commercial airliner every day in order to meet our insatiable demand to travel by air.

by Jon Ostrower/CNN

The Above Headline a stark reminder that with the combination of retirements and diminishing new pilot states the pool of qualified pilots to fill seats in airline cockpits is shrinking.
The IBT has decided to use this as another opportunity to bully you with fear tactics regarding our upcoming vote on representation.
Their insinuation is that, if we decertify the Teamsters, the pilot labor organizations at the airlines, will blacklist all the Flexjet pilots and you’ll never get an airline job.
First off, we’re trying to build a company that is not an entry-level flying job or stepping stone, but a career. With newer, longer range, and even supersonic aircraft on the way, we would hope that your professional aspirations would be fulfilled at Flexjet. With a successful victory over the Teamsters, we believe that opportunities at Flexjet will be swift and numerous which may make staying your primary choice.
However, we totally understand if you choose to pursue an airline job, so let’s look a little closer at the IBT Blacklist threat:
First, foremost, and MOST IMPORTANT your vote is totally confidential! Unless you choose to tell someone, no one will ever know how you voted.
With the airline industry is crisis mode when it comes to getting experienced and capable pilots into their cockpits we find it inconceivable that professional pilots who’ve spent multiple years flying sophisticated turbine aircraft throughout the world would be rejected simply because they chose to oust the Teamsters as their labor representative. A worker’s right to choose their labor representative is a Federally protected right, why is the IBT interfering with your right to choose?
Don’t believe the fear mongering being propagated by the IBT, their loyal minions, and on the internet from a bunch of desperate liars.” Blacklisting or intentionally preventing a person from getting a job is illegal. While there may be a union rep on an airline hiring board, they are not the only vote, HR and also pilot management will have a say. Turning down a highly capable, well trained, and the experienced pilot just because they came from a Company that got rid of the Teamsters is laughable.
From what we can tell while out on the road and talking with our fellow Flexjet pilots, most everyone wants to see the Teamsters voted out.
These attempts to “scare pilots to vote for you” by the Teamsters is pathetic and an archaic attempt to scare you into not voting your conscience.
Whether you stay at Flexjet or decide to leave, please know that your fellow Flexjet pilots want the chance to repair our relationship with our
Management team so that together we can all grow our company into a successful long-term career path for all of us.

We sincerely, hope that you choose to vote for NO REPRESENTATION.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Sep 20, 2013
Posts
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15+
Said by someone who hasn't worked under Ricci without a contract.

And you talk about truth. What happened to the in house Union effort? Or was that a lie from the start?
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Posts
782
Total Time
Enough
21% attrition and counting. More leaving every day. Blacklisting 2-300 FJ pilots would be a rounding error in their hiring needs.

And the market has spoken. No one shows up for class, or if they do they are woefully under the requirements FJ promised the owners all pilots would meet.

Every major airline union has written in on the matter and you’re now making headlines in the daily ALPA updates. But sure, tell yourself they aren’t watching if it makes you feel better.

Lastly, you know this election will be a squeaker either way or else a union busting firm wouldn’t be advising the decert group. They’re certainly not doing it for free either. So the premise that every pilot you talk to on the road wants the union gone is completely false. It would be beyond your wildest dreams to win 60-40. So the truth is that about half the pilots aren’t buying it.

Here’s a tip. Try honesty. Complete, utter and brutal honesty. I just called out two massive lies in this post before breakfast.
 
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EnFuego

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
It is telling that woelke won't let anyone post on his forum unless they are marching in jackbooted lockstep with him. He has terminated my access because I disagreed with him. So the idea that "both sides" need a hearing is not true. Second, there is a shortage of pilots! We will get a substantial raise AND we can keep our workrules and job protections with a CBA! Without a CBA the "policies" in the FOM become amendable on a daily basis. "We are going to waive that today" is all you will hear. You won't have a relationship with anyone. You will be dictated to as how you will operate, or you will be terminated. Don't fall for this! Keep your work rules AND get the raise! Vote Yes for IBT 1108!
 

MOMOMOJO

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
Lumosum, your verbiage is so completely misleading I can't help but think the company paid-for Union busters at Ogletree Deakins wrote it for you. Or maybe it was the thinly veiled "pro bono" Koch brother funded (as well as company officer donations) web of anti labor "501c3"s whose sole purpose, through people like Russ Brown, is really just to maximize profits on the backs of their unrepresented workers.

Anyone who visits these sites should realize both of these sites Lumpsum is advocating (yes, even the oscrewlounge) are not maintained or created by just regular pilots with their own experiences (like the VUH, this site or OneSkyWatch.com). They are bought and maintained by professional union busters who sole purpose is to manipulate your thoughts and twist your politics into thinking that somehow you are an ungrateful person, a bad conservative or just plain stupid if you dare to consider support of your own interests or those of your co-workers.

I say to any pilot: you have had 4 years of seeing how this management team works. You have had 4 years to watch the morphing of the very few Flexjet managers who have stayed into a "their way or the highway" mentality. You have seen 4 years of complete obstructionn, division and intolerance. Do you really need propaganda sites to tell you what is in your own best interests?

Isn't it interesting the IBT1108 is only telling you to pay attention to your own experiences and listen to your colleagues in the industry but the decert side is urging you to throw common sense out the window and go visit their cleverly designed propaganda "discussion and information" boards. How is it discussion when they only allow one viewpoint?

Frank and Phil made a huge mistake when they were goaded into admitting the ruse. After months of lying they got caught and had to admit this whole campaign is a straw man tactic. Isn't it interesting that as soon as that happened, as soon as the FUD managers saw how easily normal discussion could throw their masterminds off track, they had to step in and clamp it down? You are a fool if you think there aren't some heavy hitters, whose least concern is your best interest, behind those sites.

Don't kid yourself about the purpose of these sites. It is not about information. It is not pilots behind it. It is managed propaganda. "Buyer" beware.
 

Lumpsum

Active member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Posts
33
All I am suggesting is to allow the professional pilots of Flexjet & Flight Options to make an informed decision by gathering information from both sides. Is that too much to ask?
 

shanes123

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Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Posts
969
Total Time
6000
I been gathering information for 18 years. My information bank is full. Thanks for your concern lumpy
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
All I am suggesting is to allow the professional pilots of Flexjet & Flight Options to make an informed decision by gathering information from both sides. Is that too much to ask?

Woelke has banned opposing opinions on his porn lounge. So why aren't you on his case about allowing both sides to be heard. I smell a management plant.
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Posts
782
Total Time
Enough
All I am suggesting is to allow the professional pilots of Flexjet & Flight Options to make an informed decision by gathering information from both sides. Is that too much to ask?

Informed would imply having the correct information.
 

EnFuego

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
And why is it I never hear from Page, Rencavage, King or Delis directly. I get spammy emails from Woelke, but they only contain videos from outsiders who aren't even pilots! I do get a non stop barrage from Handschuch, Weiss, Scott and Salata though. All management and outsiders, NO PiILOTS?? That alone tells you this is not pilot driven, but a management assault on out careers!
 

shanes123

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Posts
969
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Woelke has banned opposing opinions on his porn lounge. So why aren't you on his case about allowing both sides to be heard. I smell a management plant.


Funny I just smell a turd. I big Lumpy smelly turd. maybe thats the meaning of the screen name.
 

EnFuego

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
I couldn't agree with you more!

But then you don't give out the correct information. You blast us with emails about how it's not about Unions, it's about the Teamsters. BS, it's about you wanting complete power and control. It's about Unions and about us having a voice.
 

GooodLaaa

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Mar 14, 2002
Posts
45
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7000+
Management continues its FUD campaign. Lump Biscuit, I think you are not concerned with getting information from both sides out...just the data Ricci tells you to spew. Will be amusing to see how you will be treated if this bad idea comes to pass. I suspect it wont be as well as you envision it will be!
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
From an article in the LA Times:
Ricci compared his employees to family members. "Imagine if you wanted to have a very close relationship—say it was your kids or your wife," he said. "Imagine if the only way you could talk to them was through an intermediary."


The thing that struck me immediately about was how absent Kenn has been from the "family". For two years we've heard nothing from him. Now, all of a sudden, we are "family". You don't just ignore your "family" because everything at home isn't going you way. Unless you're a really lousy family member.

Vote IBT-Airline Division"

 

cougar12

Unite Brothers & Sisters
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Mar 20, 2008
Posts
136
Total Time
9000
Copied from another Author

The company wants a direct relationship with you, without a contract. Ask the company if they'd like a no-contract relationship with our customers, one based on "trust" with no contractual obligations. Contracts are for grown ups, and you are a grown up.


- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if any of the decereters has looked to see how many Free Employee Agreement Lawyers there are! They are going to need one or they better hope the get a HUGE raise to pay for one if they get what they want!
 

MagnumPI

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Apr 16, 2018
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29
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15,000
Lumpy, you’ve been watching too many X-Files episodes. The truth is this management team are all liars, plain and simple. These are the same people all the decerters want to entrust the conditions of all of our livelihoods. Maybe Scully and Mulder will swoop in and save the day. Maybe Kenn is actually an alien. :)
 

rajflyboy

Well-known member
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Dec 19, 2003
Posts
1,797
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There are too sides

1. You have a good possibility of getting home to family on your last day.

2. Company can keep you on the road for as long as they want/need too each tour.

“The Choice is Yours to Make” :D
 

Casa212

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Posts
22
Truck4.pngLook for the IBT 1108 Truck While in Dallas
https://gem.godaddy.com/p/ad872c?fe...0007-71b9766579c79e841925c59fd42bb1abf19933ec
 

rajflyboy

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Dec 19, 2003
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1,797
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Who knew ....

Flex/Options has over 95,000 pilots
 
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