You Make the Call

[Vector4fun]

Hmmm...interesting. I happen to fly at an airport with a medium sized radar facility and co-located tower. It also is home to a skinny little go fast homebuilt hotrod. What a coincidence!

So I say you should constantly give him garbage vectors, just for being a d*ck to the people curious about his plane. I mean, I know you're talking hypothetically. But this is what I'd recommend if you were a controller where *I* fly.

And I also recommend that you continue drinking beer tonight. That's what I've been doing.

Hmmm, that IS a coincidence, isn't it?

 

[atrdriver]

Situation #3




Lesson learned, or not????

Probably not. Too many pilots out there who honestly believe that it can't happen to them. He probably stayed scared for a few hours, then figured that he just had a little bad luck and it won't happen again.

atrdriver

 

[English]

Maybe when his certificate is revoked or suspended, he MIGHT learn his lesson.

 

[minitour]

Uh...I'm guessing you find out why the VFR guy is poppin in and out of clouds...

then take appropriate action from there...

It's stuff like that that causes the accidents that gives GA a bad name...

both scenarios really p*ss me off...

I mean...if you're close to a cloud...who knows if you're 500 feet below...only way to tell is to go climb into it...feds sure aren't gonna want that...so...its really a judgement call...but to say on the freq. "we're in and out" when you're supposed to be VFR....wtf is wrong with people...

I do like the idea of telling the guy...getting a response and going from there...could just be a simple f*ck up, people do that...could be a "yeah I'm VFR and goin through some clouds so what" attitude too...

-mini

PS
I am assuming that they did not declare an emergency and weren't in a situation where they just tried to get it on the ground...that would change things...

EDIT:
Situation 3
Wow...what an arogant a*s...well...get him on the ground...make sure he's okay...get a written report from him...(does this constitute wreckless or careless operation?)not familiar with any twins...is the Comanchee certified for known icing...if so...I dunno...if not...bust him on the whole wreckless or careless...

...makes me realize how much I think I'd enjoy ATC...Tower tho...not approach or center or anything like that...strictly tower...somewhere busy...for about 10 minutes...then I'd burn out

-mini

 

[GravityHater]

Can you not just 'turn off the tapes' for a moment and then key up the mic, cussing these bastards up on side and down the other, over the radio in your most booming voice?
It would at least make you feel better!
I would scream, "You dumb ^%#%$&, is your head so far up your anus that you can't think straight?!", then take a deep breath, flip the tapes back on and smile a little while I sipped my coffee.
Thanks to you atc types for putting up with ALL of us.

this from one of the 'little plane' guys

 

[TonyC]

Situation #3


Lesson learned, or not????

Not. Needs a heart to heart with an Inspector.





.

 

[flyifrvfr]

My response to these situations is simple. First, the homebuilt doing the flyby just performed aerobatics below 1,500 feet without a waiver, and did aerobatics in controlled airspace. He gets reported. Second, the Merlin flying VFR in VMC is responsible for maintaining VFR and seperation. By saying that he is in and out tells me he is in violation of the FAR that says you must have an IFR clearence in controlled airspace when the weather is less than VMC, not verbatum.

Lastly, if you as a pilot stop and think about what the NTSB report would say about your decision making, it would help prevent you from making bad decisions. Flight into known icing which was reported and weather conducive (sic?) is bad. Flying an aircraft into know icing without the equipment to operate in such is considered wreckless because you are operating the aircraft contrary to its type certificate.

 

[Vector4fun]

Boy, you guys are a bunch of hard liners!


Two of those incidents are fairly recent, one is a bit dated. In all three cases, there was a Supervisor on duty. In one case, the controller issued a fairly harsh tounge lashing on freq. In another, the Supe did some respectful chastising on the phone later, and in the third, well, nothing yet, but the day is coming......

Thanks for playing, and be very, very careful out there, because all three pilots are still flying, and more like them. Fortunately, they are still a small minority of the pilot population. The majority of you guys and gals are a pleasure to work with.


I'll leave you with a Darwin Award finalist from 1990. The saddest part was one of the passengers was a small boy who wasn't aware he was risking his life.

I knew his Dad. (Not one of the occupants)

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=FTW88FA160&rpt=fi

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

#1: See how the pilot responds when they call you. I would be tempted to let them off the hook but if they ask for it, give the violation to them.

#2: Violation. They were advised that there was traffic there, and they went into the clouds VFR.

#3: Have the guy call you, and have a nice little chat. Then let him off the hook, maybe he learned something.

 

[JediNein]

For the Comanche, did he get a number to call? I try to enforce the idea that declaring an emergency is a really good idea but the goal is to prevent the emergency in the first place. Also, I've known of those that made similar mistakes in their past, just being dumba$$e$. Basically they scared themselves silly and had plenty of time to review their life as it passed before their eyes. The FAA response, ATC through FSDO, has generally been 'go and sin no more.' You know his tail number, if he does it again, if he's not dead, in steps the FSDO. Possibly a call to the rental place? "Just want to make sure he's okay."

Something similar happened to a friend. IMC + Bad weather, low ice level, night approaching, and a VFR only pilot in a rental asked for departure clearance out of the "C". The departure controller gave him the VFR clearance, and a latest doom and gloom PIREP. The guy taxied, did the runup, and called for takeoff.

The controller turned to the sup (my friend and also owner of the airplane) and asked what to do. The sup responded "you clear him for takeoff" knowing full well that he would most likely not see his airplane or that pilot alive again.

The guy took off, declared an emergency and got vectors to a nearby airport 6 minutes later. An hour later he departed again, emergency, vectors, made it 20 miles that time. He repeated it again a few more times, about 30 minutes between emergencies.

Somehow the guy made it to his destination. The controllers only documented the flight assists, warned the next facility he was coming, and left the guy to the sup.

In the conversation later, the guy told his story. His son and pregnant daughter-in-law had just been in a near-fatal motorcycle accident up north, he was trying to get there before his son died. He knew driving was too slow and he wasn't thinking clearly. He did make it in time, his son regained consciousness for a short period of time, and died the next morning. I don't know what the final FAA response was other than he never rented from the sup's place again.

----

In the case of the Merlin, "Are you requesting an IFR flight plan?" I know I've stopped students from saying stupid things on the radio before, even in Merlin-class aircraft. In the phone call afterwards, "were you aware you were on a VFR clearance?" I've also known sectors to not pass flight plans along, pilots to screw up, and controllers to accidentally hit VFR instead of IFR for codes.

----

For the buzz job fellah, again a similar situation encountered in the past, the pull-ups were going through the tower's airspace. The tower response was to involve the Safety Program Manager (SPM) at the local FSDO. He came out to the EAA crowd, cowboys and all, and gave an excellent presentation during one of their meetings. The good guys were so identified and got some great instruction and door prizes (a handheld GPS was given out). One of the cowboys told the SPM off. That's fine, don't violate the airspace and we'll leave you alone. Violate the airspace and we'll be back wearing the black hats.

The buzz-jobs continued. Two weeks later an Inspector, wearing a black baseball cap with FAA lettering, was standing on the roof of the restaurant with a clipboard and binoculars. He flew in to that airport in his Harmon Rocket and did a 'buzz-job' with self-announcing on the unicom, even saying hi to the gal monitoring unicom.

The buzz-jobs stopped violating the airspace with one exception. That exception is now fighting certificate action.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein