You guys have me scared

[xlr857]

I am new to this site and pretty much new to flying. I am currently 26 and after 8 years of driving trucks I decided Im never going to make any money this way. I just dumped $80,000 into a flight academy and start in mid-January. But from some of the posts I read no ones really working and that kind of bothers me plus alot of you seem real negative. Im not trying to flame anyone or start trouble. Is finding a job flying making at least $30,000 a year that difficult. I know everyone seems to want to be in the major's making six figure incomes, but Im realistic all Ive ever wanted to do is fly. I just want a job I can enjoy going to the rest of my life I dont care what kind of flying that is. I know everyone on this board is more experienced than me so I would appreciate any feedback, or advice for someone just starting out. I will be out of school in mid Feb. 2004 with a hefty student loan payment.

 

[FL000]

all Ive ever wanted to do is fly.

Those are the magic words.

Just be determined that nothing will get in your way of attaining a career flying and you will be fine. However, don't burn bridges or step on toes.

Things are tough right now, but plenty of companies are hiring. Just build your time and your day will come. Don't worry about it...really, don't.

This board is a very good cross section of the aviation field. Most pilots are good people and are willing to help out in any way they can. Others grumble and complain. Still others like to stir up trouble. I was taken aback by the attitude on message boards when I first started out also. I found that the vast majority of pilots (and the general public, for that matter) don't mess around on message boards, and the vast majority of those pilots are even-keeled and satisfied. Don't let all the bitchin' fool you.

 

[Bluto]

"Is finding a job flying making at least $30,000 a year that difficult."

Right now? Absolutely.

Most flight instructors make less than $20,000/ year, many make substantially less. For example, I made about $15,000 my first year as a flight instructor. No one can say for sure what the industry will look like in 2004, but with many major airline pilots on furlough, and more on the way, it is unlikely that things will bounce back completely by then. So plan on spending at least a year, realistically 2 or 3, as a flight instructor. Then, when you do get hired by a regional or freight operator, plan on no more than $20,000 as an annual salary for the first year or two with gradual increases after that. After maybe three years you could break the $30,000 mark, just 4-7 years after completing your training. In the mean time the challenge is to afford day to day expenses while paying off flight training loans. Many instructors work two or more jobs. In the beginning, you will have little spare time or energy.

Is it worth it? That's up to you. Unless you love flying, it's a very long road.

(The above may be slightly pessimistic, but the industry has changed...)

 

[generaltso]

If all you have ever wanted to do was fly, why have you been driving trucks for 8 years? It suprises me sometimes when I read posts from people in their thirties and forties (you are 26, so you don't qualify) and they say "I have wanted to fly all my life". Well guess what folks, if you really really loved flying that bad - you would have found a way to do it at an earlier age.

Anyway, times are tough but your not that old to get in the game. Dumping 80 grand in to a flying academy was your first mistake, though. Maybe a couple years ago when going to a well established flight school (i.e. FlightSafety, ComAir, Riddle) could land you an airline job... now the times are much different. You could have gotten your training done locally for much, much less. Or gone to a local college (or a college in your region) that had a flight department, you'd be suprised how many do. That way you can take advantage of the great financial aid available (interest rates are great right now).

Also, "driving trucks I decided Im never going to make any money this way"... if your turning to aviation to find money, your looking in the wrong place. As a pilot, starting out is very hard. Don't expect to make any more then your doing now for a while.

Sorry about sounding negative.

 

[xlr857]

Thats good to hear, my school assures me there will be no problem with placement in a regional airline. I guess they have standing orders for graduates straight into an airline. It just makes me worry seeing pilots with 3000+ hours and cant get a job. I will come out of the school with 800+ hours and simulated jet training. What do regional airlines usually look for when they hire pilots.

 

[Wiggums]

Dude - Every school will promise you that they will get you a job. They will pretty much say anything to get you to sign up. From what you've said it sounds like you're signing up for Pan Am, and I can tell you that their marketing department and sales people are very effective. $80,000 is quite a large amount of money. You could save quite a bit by going somewhere else. Also, if you've been driving trucks since 18 I'll bet you still need a college degree. You might want to look into that also.

Good Luck.

 

[xlr857]

I dont plan to make alot of money at the start, but you have got to start somewhere or before you know it its too late. I know Im already behind in the game. When I made the decision to fly I thought to myself what can I do for the next 30 years and hopefully not get sick of it. Im not going to win the lotto so thats out. I chose this route because I have a wife and baby and I want a better life for us. I know times are tough in the airline industry but it will get better people have to fly. This program was something that would get me prepared in 14 months. I dont have time for a community college or to sit at a university for 4 years I need to provide. and a Flight Instructor makes more than I do so I figure I really cant lose unless I dont work at all.. I know nothing comes easy, but nothing will stop me from achieving my goals. I just wish I could of thought of this 8 years ago. Really should of listened to my parents.

 

[Dieterly]

What do regional airlines usually look for when they hire pilots.

A warm body to fill the right seat...

 

[Extender]

Hang in there...

I'm a military pilot just breaking into this airline gig. It IS a little scary right now. I'll be working shortly for a Regional Airline making 1/4 the pay I was making as a senior Air Force Captain. Two years ago, a guy like me could easily walk right into a major airline job. Not the case today. Oh well. I love flying and know it beats ANY job out there.

Fortunately, my wife and I have enough $$ in the bank to make it though these tough times. Not everyone does and it would be really tough to be optimistic if you have a family, a $2000 mortgage, $1000 car notes, etc. It's even tougher if you're furloughed, with a few years senority and don't want to sacrifice your senority number to make $16K a year to stay current.

But the key is to keep flying and maintain currency, if you can. Things WILL turn around in a year or so. My goal is to make it through this without being on food stamps for too long

 

[UPS Capt]

Thats good to hear, my school assures me there will be no problem with placement in a regional airline

Oh boy, please tell me you didn't fall for that load of crap?!? They still telling people that?? Geez! I'm sure they told you whatever you wanted to hear just to get your money.

Here's the reality of the situation. Thousands, and I mean THOUSANDS of well qualified airline pilots are currently furloughed and looking for work. This is a domino effect throughout the flying industry. No movement at the majors means no movement at the Regionals. No movement at the Regionals means no movement for CFI's etc.

$80,000 is an insane amount of money to spend on ratings with absolutely no guarantees of a flying job when your finished. If they are so sure you'd have a Regional job when you've completed training, have them put it in writing that they'll refund you for all your training cost if it doesn't happen.

Fortunately, your still young and can probably ride out the rough times ahead but don't expect to much when you've completed training.

BTW, I didn't make $30,000/yr until being hired by UPS and that was after 10+ years of CFIing, night freight in piston twins and flying for the commuters.

 

[Extender]

Very competitive

> A warm body to fill the right seat...

Actually, from what I've seen recently from my interviews, they are looking for a warm body that can quickly upgrade to the left seat.

Average time to Captain is about 1 yr with Comair, Skywest and similar Regionals. They can be picky at this point in history and 1000 hours total time won't do it if most of it is not PIC.

 

[xlr857]

I have a written guarantee if I place in the top 10% percent of my class I am guaranteed a job with an airline no interview nothing. If they do not place me at all within 6 mos of graduation I get a 30,000 dollar refund on my training. I forget which regional airline but there are several with standing orders for pilots from my school 10 per month.

 

[xlr857]

I have a degree in business management from local CC. I just took that long to figure out i dont like sitting behind a desk

 

[skydrillr]

Maybe you should work on your 4 yr degree and do training at a local airport. 80K is quite a lot of money for training. I paid out only 24k. Ma and pa operations.....

 

[Flight_Line]

Eighty grand is a lot to be sinking into flight training. I for one wouldn't believe that guarantee. The three words I never use in reference to aviation or the airlines are guarantee, definite, or promise. So, lets say that this isn't fame bait and you really are shelling out $80,000 for flight training. Just how do you expect to pay those loans back AND provide for the wife and kid (unless of course you didn't need a loan). What is this mystery flight school you are going to that is giving you a written GUARANTEE that if you are in the top 10% of your class (how do they measure that anyway?) you DEFINITELY get an airline job with that as yet unnamed airline that has a "standing order" (brings a whole new dimension to the term "pilot factory" doesn't it?) for low time inexperienced pilots in this time of many unemployed highly experienced pilots. I'm not saying this is not true, just highly improbable.

 

[El Cid Av8or]

I'm kind of in the same boat you are except I am leaving the IT industry and I already have my private pilot's license with a multi-engine rating. I'm also a little older at 32.

I looked at all of the flight schools. Most of which I determined to be nothing more than good marketing folks. I am getting the rest of my ratings at a local FBO for about $17,000. If I started from scratch it would cost about $25,000-30,000. Am I guaranteed a job when I get done? Well, the manager said that he might take me on as a "here-and-there" pilot. If you are guaranteed a job by graduating in the top 10% of your class, make sure you study your tail off and then if they don't get you a job, get all of the $80,000 back, not just part of it.

I'm not trying to be negative, I just don't want people that I could be working with to get screwed by somebody that knows how to sell something too well.

No matter what you do, don't ever let anyone steal your dream and don't quit even when evrything is stacked up against you. My dad always told me "quitters never win and winners never quit." I'd say it's true.

 

[xlr857]

This is what Im talking about the negativity on this board sucks, that is why I wont return here. The mystery school is Pan Am and I believe the mystery company with an order for 10 pilots per month is AIRNET. Thank You for all who had real responses and a plan of attack for me to take. Im going to be a great pilot regardless of the airline status. I have an inside contact with Corporate Jets out of Scottsdale. I am best friends with the owners son who is currently attending Embry Riddel. So see you all the real pilots in the skies and for all the complaining whiners have fun on furlough.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You paid 80,000$ to get ratings and the promise of an interview if you "excel" at your training? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me...????

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**....I should have gone into the flight school business.

What a rip-off!!!!!!

For 80K you should get your ratings AND a college degree!!!!

Best of Luck.

 

[xlr857]

I apologize if I offended anyone, I really hope anyone who is currently out of work finds a job. It just pisses me off how it seems some people try to scare newbies away. We all got into this for one reason you love to fly. I dont care if im flat broke Ill be having the time of my life. You only live once. I researched Pan AM losing there 141 cert. but couldnt find anything I know they currently have it.

 

[Flight_Line]

Negativity? I'm being realistic here. Eighty thousand dollars is a lot of money! Especially for primary flight training. You were being very ambiguous there xlr857. My point is know what you are getting into and I am not sure that you do. UPS Capt is correct that $80,000 is an insane amount to pay for training. As for Airnet, you'll be making $1,333 per month for the first 4 or 5 months since you will be flying SIC in the pistons because at 800 hours you do not yet meet the FAR part 135 requirements. After that you'll make somewhere around $24,000 a year until you upgrade to jet SIC then you'll make around $29,000 until you upgrade once again to jet captain. Now, it sounds like you have your mind made up as to your "plan of attack". I'm not trying to be "negative" here but I personally wouldn't bet 80 grand on a 90% chance that I won't have a job after spending all that money. My advice to you is to go to a local flight school and get your ratings that way, then hit your buddy up for a job with his Dad's company. Once again, you will not have the hour requirement for part 135 PIC until you hit 1200 hours but you can ride SIC and instruct until you have enough time.