Yet another USAPA lawsuit

[Crzipilot]

I'm sure your insinuiating the distance learning arbitration etc... on that comment. Don't know the story, but watching the crew news, with a few comments of certain witnesses backing out, and etc...... It seems that the west looked at what was agreed upon and after the fact said whooooaaaa...why couldn't we do it this way. Kinda johnny come lately on that one. I could actually kinda see parkers perplexion as to what the issue was. The screams to talk to the PHX reps, well I'm pretty positive that's not the protocol used in settling the grievances and arbitrations. I.E. it any grievance goes through the grievance committee. either be involved with it or be without.

Hencey, just because your west, does not mean that the phx reps handle everything west, a lot more liability and other things that have to be adhered to for the PHX reps to become their own little union inside a union. Parker understood it, he didn't understand why the west pilots didn't.

It may or may not have been intentional but it seems as though what you guys were trying to imply was, any issues with west contract or west issues, simply go through west reps and we'll take care of it, don't worry about USAPA. the problem I guess is Parker knows it's not small AWA that he has to deal with, it's the whole structure..


Bringupthebird.

You see there might be many people willing to negotiate something in the middle, but you see. the west has screamed loud and clear they will accept the nic and NOTHING else. Meanwhile in defense the east says fine. DOH. West says you can't go off the nic 'cause there is no one on west to negotiate away from that because of the single carrier status.
I say BS to the 10th degree. If the people in charge of AOL or whatever it was, were to write down some conditions and restrictions and pass it across. in which there was a rebuttal to that, and so forth, eventually there might be a middle ground and AOL would not file lawsuit. so no dfr, and things would move one.

BUT THE WEST HAS CLEARLY STATED IT'S NIC OR NOTHING.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Isn't time on the west pilot's side? How long is the east willing to work under LOA 93 and how many senior east guys will retire before anything changes. My guess is the west has all the leverage on the long term outcome of this whole mess.

 

[Crzipilot]

The east is willing for as long as the little movement continues. RSV going to blocks, f/o's to capt, new hires off the street. It's small right now, but it could be simply the pebble gathering steam, turning into a great big boulder barreling down the mountain slope.
Mgment is in unchartered waters, and actually has to manage the staffing, faced with variables they have never faced before. The biggest one being, when confronted with adhearing to the robotic desire of management, some pilots say screw it, hand over their badge and walk away......

Movement is over east...and could start to be more than what it is now. At the same time, it could halt at the end of summer. we will see

 

[Turtle21]

..

Either way, how is the company going to prove, that by accepting the nic they will be subject to a work stoppage, ....

The 9th made it clear that the Nic is a bargaining position (but is not the court directed position) and directed the company and USAPA to bargain. If the company takes the bargaining position that they will only accept Nic, then the company and USAPA are at in impasse which of course then could end up in a legal work stoppage.

In other words, the company can't just accept the Nic, the company has to take a bargaining position.

 

[TWA Dude]

Don't know the story, but watching the crew news, with a few comments of certain witnesses backing out, and etc......

You're right, you don't know the story. Our man (former MEC Vice Chair Vasin) was working with the grievance committee on the DL as well as the TA10 issues. About two months ago he informed us (on the private AWAPPA message board where AWA pilots confer) that he'd withdrawn from participation because Parella was working against our interests and ignoring the input of West subject matter experts. He also correctly predicted that she'd try to pawn the blame on him.

It may or may not have been intentional but it seems as though what you guys were trying to imply was, any issues with west contract or west issues, simply go through west reps and we'll take care of it, don't worry about USAPA. the problem I guess is Parker knows it's not small AWA that he has to deal with, it's the whole structure..

Not exactly. What we needed Parker to know was that it was unacceptable for him to deal with USAPA on West-specific issues without even talking to any West pilots. Everybody knows USAPA lost a DFR trial so if they had any integrity whatsoever they'd be going out of their way to appease the West. Instead, they just add more fodder to legal battle.

If the people in charge of AOL or whatever it was, were to write down some conditions and restrictions and pass it across. in which there was a rebuttal to that, and so forth, eventually there might be a middle ground and AOL would not file lawsuit. so no dfr, and things would move one.

You still don't get it. AOL's sole purpose is the legal fight to protect what the West is entitled to. They aren't a bargaining agent. There's only one legal bargaining agent for the West and that's USAPA. Even our West reps can't negotiate for us because the BPR will simply outvote them on anything acceptable to the West. With ALPA gone there's no more negotiating!

BUT THE WEST HAS CLEARLY STATED IT'S NIC OR NOTHING.

Finally, you do understand something correctly. See you in Judge Silver's court.

 

[TWA Dude]

If the company takes the bargaining position that they will only accept Nic, then the company and USAPA are at in impasse which of course then could end up in a legal work stoppage..

The NMB doesn't exist in a vacuum. They know what binding arbitration is even if the East doesn't. Just go ahead and see if they release USAPA to strike over the Nic. I double-dog dare you.

Oh, and how do you think it'll look when every West pilot votes against striking? When's the last time a union struck with less than 75% member approval? (Or even 98%, for that matter.)

 

[Turtle21]

The NMB doesn't exist in a vacuum. They know what binding arbitration is even if the East doesn't. Just go ahead and see if they release USAPA to strike over the Nic. I double-dog dare you.

Oh, and how do you think it'll look when every West pilot votes against striking? When's the last time a union struck with less than 75% member approval? (Or even 98%, for that matter.)

I didn't say anybody is going to strike.

The post I was responding to assumed the company can choose to accept the Nic, which is not accurate. The company must take a bargaining position. The COMPANY is the one who recognizes that the 9th requires them to bargain with USAPA (take a bargaining position). They are concerned about the possibility of liability if they don't hold to the Nic bargaining position, and at the same time they are concerned that if they do hold to the Nic bargaining position they will be at an impasse with the bargaining agent.

 

[waveflyer]

The east had their chance to "bargain"-

 

[vetrider]

The east had their chance to "bargain"-

Yep. And the only reason the subject of 'bargaining' is even broached these days is because their original usapa plan blew up in their faces.

 

[eaglesview]

The east had their chance to "bargain"-

Really the East can no longer bargain with the company?? Did something change. Is USAPA no longer the union that represents the pilots??