Yet another USAPA lawsuit

[eaglesview]

I don't work for UAL so obviously you have a better idea of what the average line guy thinks, but any UAL pilot I've ever spoken with has a tremendous disdain for the East. I've heard stories about East FOs asking UAL crews out over the Atlantic what kind of Captain schedule their DOH would buy them back when USAir and UAL were hot and heavy. And who could forget the "we (the MEC) want to have a face to face with you UAL guys...and bring the 747 manuals, we can't wait to use our DOH to bid it". Maybe time and circumstance change things.

When I'm at work I don't read things on the union board that are not signed and I don't put much wait on statements like " I've heard stories.........."

 

[get2flyin]

When I'm at work I don't read things on the union board that are not signed and I don't put much wait on statements like " I've heard stories.........."

I don't put any WEIGHT on what I read on our "Union" board. When I say, "I've heard stories", I don't mean, "A guy I know heard from another guy". I mean, "I had a guy tell ME". And as far as the stories go, I NEVER start in with a jump seater about the East v West issues. In fact, when THEY start in..and they almost always do ("so, are you guys East or West?"), I just put the issue to bed with a "yeah, we just have some massive differences that we may never be able to work out", and I leave it at that. But it's surprising how many OAL pilots want to tell me a story about a personal experience with the East that left them pissed off. I'm not saying every East pilot is an ass, nor am I implying that MOST are asses. I'm just saying there are certainly a large enough percentage of them that they seem to be giving the rest a somewhat poor reputation.

Carry on.

 

[SOVT]

I don't work for UAL so obviously you have a better idea of what the average line guy thinks, but any UAL pilot I've ever spoken with has a tremendous disdain for the East. I've heard stories about East FOs asking UAL crews out over the Atlantic what kind of Captain schedule their DOH would buy them back when USAir and UAL were hot and heavy. And who could forget the "we (the MEC) want to have a face to face with you UAL guys...and bring the 747 manuals, we can't wait to use our DOH to bid it". Maybe time and circumstance change things.

Utter and complete BS.

We used to share a crewroom with United in Paris. When the subject of Airways came up not one harsh word was said. I suppose it's a maturity thing.

 

[get2flyin]

Utter and complete BS.

We used to share a crewroom with United in Paris. When the subject of Airways came up not one harsh word was said. I suppose it's a maturity thing.

That was right from the mouth of a UAL Captain I had in my jumpseat coming out of LAX a few years ago. According to him, a lot of bad blood still existed between UAL and the old USAir. If that's not the case, terrific. Maybe you guys should think about joining USAPA and singing camp fire songs together. Either way, I hope your UAL/CAL merger works out in a reasonable fashion that everyone can live, and I say that without any sarcasm.

 

[eaglesview]

During both of the periods where we were merging with USAir I never heard a word from an East pilot about it. In fact the only USair pilot that approached me was a West pilot coming out of the Holiday in express in Orlando where we both used to layover. He was eager to get the process going so he could vote on ALPA again. That was it.

 

[Guppiedriver]

You make some valid points like the rest of us are being affected by the USAir wages while we are trying to get contracts. That is why I hope the East is successful in getting there rightful snap backs. It's in black and white the company owes them the money.

As a United pilot that works with some of the most junior pilots at United I can say with confidence that the majority of the pilots I work with do not think the nic is fair. For a moment lets take the CO/UA merger. The pilots I fly with have much more longevity and much less seniority than do their counterparts at CO. However almost all of them, pending on their age, will retire as widebody captains. The same can not be said for their "equals" at CO. In fact a good portion of the CO narrow body Captains would never have made widebody Captains. Just because the CO pilot reached his/her career expectation sooner than the UA pilot does not mean he gets to come over and block the UA pilot from ever reaching the career expectation he has today. The parralells here with USAir are obvious.

The West like to say they "saved" USAir. No one will ever no if that is true. If it was so obvious why didn't Parker pick it up at the fire sale. Another reality is wether the nic or DOH is used the the majority of the west pilots will end up in the same position on the seniority list due to their youth factor. If the nic is used the East will never reach their career expectation and will never make up the loss due to their age. At the time of the merger the West were never slated to fly heavy airplanes internationally the East obviously were.

You can't be serious. I have read some lame posts on this forum, but this one takes the cake. Congratulations.

 

[eaglesview]

You can't be serious. I have read some lame posts on this forum, but this one takes the cake. Congratulations.

Obviously have nothing to say.

 

[Crzipilot]

The 747 comment if I recall, was said, but it has morphed into internet follies. You know how those rumors go. I believe it was said by one of the more jr. kids on the list, and he had been hired at a tender age of 23 or so. There was some flame baiting and such going on and he dropped that little thing about the 747 manuals. Guess his comment worked, as it still lives to this day in many forms and everything else. Watch out for those black helicopters.

Gaddds I trust the west has never made a comment for the shear purpose of ruffling the feathers of someone on the east?

Far as I'm concerned you can have your 747's a330's etc.....give me a across the board pay scale and let me choose what to fly to make my money. Too many years across those ponds to really have a desire to do it again in a few years....

 

[reepicheep]

I think most pilots will agree the nic. is "not fair" - the US Airways longevity/seniority plot circa 2005 was downright sickening. Nicolau was faced with a near-impossible task. He had an airline that had virtually imploded - from 6000 pilots in 1990 down to 3500 15 years later. 1/3 of the pilots on furlough. Now combine it with a growing pilot group with 7-year upgrades. And try not to pi$$ anyone off. Good luck. Any attempted comparisons to Continental circa 2010 are pretty shaky. They both flew airplanes and had pilots. There the similarity ends.

And in 2000 the typical US Airways pilot seniority integration expectation of the proposed UAL merger was to look at a United DOH/Seat/Equipment/Domicile chart, apply their own USAir DOH, and derive their future career path accordingly.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I think most pilots will agree the nic. is "not fair" - the US Airways longevity/seniority plot circa 2005 was downright sickening. Nicolau was faced with a near-impossible task. He had an airline that had virtually imploded - from 6000 pilots in 1990 down to 3500 15 years later. 1/3 of the pilots on furlough. Now combine it with a growing pilot group with 7-year upgrades. And try not to pi$$ anyone off. Good luck.

No, most pilots would agree that life was lousy for the USAir pilots at the time of ther merger, but that does not give USAPA the right to transfer their pain to the west pilots, just because they have the numbers to do it.

The "unfairness" you refer to is only the result of viewing the integration through the prism of adding the west pilots to the USAirways seniority list. The airline called USAirways is not the same one that the east pilots were hired on with and consequently, they should not have the same career expectations they had when they worked for the former USAirways.

 

[waveflyer]

Eagle- if you were integrating with the East in 2005, would you be making the same argument??

Sounds like you make the argument that serves you best.

Nic did have an impossible task and the best case scenario occurred-
"final and binding": "IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SHAWN!!!"

 

[Guppiedriver]

Obviously have nothing to say.

I am simply flabbergasted that you would spend that much time posting about something that you have absolutely zero knowledge about.

Abe Lincoln said it best......"It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."