Yearly Rates... jBlu EMB190

[8vATE]

Here's how it breaks down for those who want to see the yearly picture..


JetBlue
Year 1 EMB190 Captain $78,488/yr
Year 3 EMB 190 Captain $82,063/yr

Year 5 A320 Captain $133,966/yr

Year 1 EMB F/O $41,181/yr

thats an 85 hour month

That year one F/O will make more than I did at year one USAirways ($36,000)

With over 300 airplanes theoretically coming... the left seat will come quick...
Yes... its not what we're all use to for a 100 seater... but that was yesterday...

Hopefully a yearly end of approx 10% profitsharing and the stock purchase plan will bump up your final year end earnings.... but we all know thats not a sure thing....

 

[AAflyer]

I was waiting for somebody to put the spin on it.

I was also waiting for the "that was yesterday speech". We have all made to much money in the past and this is reality!!!

Congrats, you just made it that much harder for NWA to keep their DC-9 rates.

Hell, looking at the pay at AirTran, and some of the others, including SWA, it will be hard to get anything else than what you guys decide is an acceptable wage.

Glad to know you will make captain shortly, and that will ease some of the inital
pay pain.

AA

 

[thruthemurk]

<<JetBlue
Year 1 EMB190 Captain $78,488/yr
Year 3 EMB 190 Captain $82,063/yr

Year 5 A320 Captain $133,966/yr

Year 1 EMB F/O $41,181/yr

thats an 85 hour month>>

Thanks for doing the math..I wanted to throw a couple more facts in the mix so that prospective pilots can evaluate their real earning potential. The first 6 weeks at JetBlue you are on training pay of $2500/month. You then do an average of 6weeks reserve which pays 75 hours a month
( I have talked to two pilots out of dozens who flew more than this on FO reserve. The lines have been built to about 81 hours a month after that (higher in the summer- lower in the winter). You can fly more but that is not the average built line value.
Assuming these numbers you would make (Flight Pay only),

Year 1 EMB190 Captain $67017

Year 1 EMB F/O $36945.

As far as new hires getting left seat, that remains to be seen, but as
A-320 captain seat is looking more like 30 months+ for pilots getting hired today, I would think there will be many pilots who opt for the left seat in the E-190 while they wait.



In the interest of fair comparisons, hourly rate removes most of the spin. Pilots can decide how many hours they want to fly - in my opinion the hourly rate makes a fair comparator.

Here are the rates for the first 5 years on the E-190, up to 70 hours.
Above that it is time and a half. For a 81 hour month, the time and a half equates to a 6.6% higher hourly rate. For a 85 hour month it equates to a 8.2% higher hourly rate.


CAFO5$77.24 $46.024$75.56 $43.853$73.93 $41.602$72.32 $39.951$70.71 $37.10

 

[8vATE]

I was waiting for somebody to put the spin on it.

I was also waiting for the "that was yesterday speech". We have all made to much money in the past and this is reality!!!

Congrats, you just made it that much harder for NWA to keep their DC-9 rates.

Hell, looking at the pay at AirTran, and some of the others, including SWA, it will be hard to get anything else than what you guys decide is an acceptable wage.

Glad to know you will make captain shortly, and that will ease some of the inital
pay pain.

AA

There's only a little spin there...
From my personal experience....

Its just more info for those who want to know...
A lot of people are not aware of the premium pay issue...

I would have been happy to have been in this industry 20 years earlier...

 

[AAflyer]

20 years ago!!

Captains were GODS, they ate lobster and steak and earned a monthly paycheck that could buy them a new cadillac.

I would like to go back as well.

AA

 

[radiofly er]

Here's how it breaks down for those who want to see the yearly picture..


JetBlue
Year 1 EMB190 Captain $78,488/yr
Year 3 EMB 190 Captain $82,063/yr

Year 5 A320 Captain $133,966/yr

Year 1 EMB F/O $41,181/yr

thats an 85 hour month

That year one F/O will make more than I did at year one USAirways ($36,000)

With over 300 airplanes theoretically coming... the left seat will come quick...
Yes... its not what we're all use to for a 100 seater... but that was yesterday...

Hopefully a yearly end of approx 10% profitsharing and the stock purchase plan will bump up your final year end earnings.... but we all know thats not a sure thing....

SO HOW MUCH WOULD YOU TAKE HOME ROUGHLY A YEAR. (AN ESTIMATE)

 

[vc10]

Is the ratio of JetBlue E190 wages to NW DC-9 wages any worse than that of JetBlue A320 to NW A320 wages?

Surprising as it may seem but the primary motivation of most JetBlue pilots does not appear to be to maintain the lifestyles of NW pilots.

I was waiting for somebody to put the spin on it.

I was also waiting for the "that was yesterday speech". We have all made to much money in the past and this is reality!!!

Congrats, you just made it that much harder for NWA to keep their DC-9 rates.

Hell, looking at the pay at AirTran, and some of the others, including SWA, it will be hard to get anything else than what you guys decide is an acceptable wage.

Glad to know you will make captain shortly, and that will ease some of the inital
pay pain.

AA

 

[bayoubandit]

Yet Jet Blue wouldn't have the rates they do now if it weren't for carriers like NWA having the pay they do/did.


It was NWA and the other legacies motivation in maintaing a pay standard. You must look at the past to see the present.

 

[AAflyer]

Vc10,

It has nothing to do with emulating NWA pay, it has to do with how low can we
all bring down wages. This hurt and hurt big time. It is the new bar for the 100 seater.

Why is this the only profession we have to defend our pay.

Why is it from a glass of milk, to a car, to a pair jeans cost more now than it did in the 80s, why is almost everything around us more expensive except airline tickets. Why is that we as employees have subsidize the only thing that has not gone up with inflation.

Let inflation keep climbing and see our wages as a prfoession stay where there at, then see what we can buy and where we can live in 20 years.

Oppps, I am sorry. Who gives a sh!t, this captilism right? Free market, yada yada yada. Glad that the attorneys, doctors and CEOS are not selling each other out.

But what do I know..... I am just a STUPID pilot who is OVERPAID that flys for a LEGACY airline.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

Bayou,

That is a cop out. I am tired of pilot pay being the reason for every airlines problems, that is starting to sound pretty pathetic, I didn't expect it from another aviator.

Please tell me you are not impressed by these wages. I don't want to know whose fault it is, I want to know if you are happy with this wages?

AA

 

[Draginass]

JB pilots don't give half a crap about the so-called "profession" or anybody else behind them. They've got in early and will upgrade relatively quickly and make ok money. As far as the late comers go working for $50 an hour . . . F 'em. Just as bad as any senior legacy captain.

 

[Caveman]

Draginass,

For once I agree with you. Bullseye!!

 

[bayoubandit]

AA Pilot

I must have come across different than what I was thinking. I'll just say no, I am not impressed with those pay rates.

Those rates scare me sh!tless with Hunter & Co. in office.

Bayou

 

[Ace757]

what the F***! Who the Hel* is going to want to leave a regional like ASA or Comair when thats what they make to fly the 70 seater. They would be much better off staying where they are. Man......Corprate is sounding better and better everyday. Is it really worth being away from home 300 hours a month, and flying 90 hours just to scrape by? Hell I have a friend who is a first yr Gulfstream Capt. at a 135 company who makes 90k. Works 15 days a month. Flys around 60. He stays in nice hotels, eats good food, and even has a rental car. The whole I want to wear and Airline uniform is starting to get real old.

 

[On Your Six]

I'll bet applications to SWA and AirTran will rise EVEN MORE (if that's possible)... This lets some of the air out of Jet Blue's tire - that's for sure...

 

[Dizel8]

"JB pilots don't give half a crap about the so-called "profession" or anybody else behind them. They've got in early and will upgrade relatively quickly and make ok money. As far as the late comers go working for $50 an hour . . . F 'em. Just as bad as any senior legacy captain."

While that may be said in anger, I will still call you on it! We, despite what you purport, are still professional aviators with a desire to see the right way for this profession. We do maintain a single seniority list, none of this mainline vs w/o's, like seen at U. Hopefully, we will never develop the holier than thou attitude, that seems prevalent with those issues.

Yes, I think a few people are a bit disillusioned by the EMB pay, personally, I was hoping it would be higher and I hope, as the aircraft and the company proves it will work, that the payrates will be adjusted UP.

We all want to fly Concordes for $1000 an hour, who knows, we may get there still, the only way to win that race, is to be in it.

 

[jobear]

Draginass,

For once I agree with you. Bullseye!!

Circle K give'em a Sharpshooter badge.

Bear

 

[AAflyer]

No, we do all not want to fly the concorde for $1000 an hour!

But how about professional pay for professional job, this goes to everyone in flying. It is just as pathetic that Coex and Eagle pay Jetpilots startting out less than $20,000 a year.

It is hard to blame the JB guys, as you rightly said "you guys had no control over the pay issue, or will you ever". For your sake and ours I hope the rates are raised.

What is making me a little nervous is when LCC starting trying to undercut other LCC in pay.

Wishing the best for all of us as this industry continues to dip below the glide slope.

AA

 

[Heavy Set]

Regional pilot pay will NOW be under scrutiny....

I just got back from a trip so this is the first time I have seen the new E190 payrates. My conclusion: I'm disappointed.... Wow, a strong, growing carrier like Jet Blue has UNDERwhelmed everyone with their new rates. I think this will have the most impact on the regional wages - especially those that are being negotiated right now (i.e., Coex). Of course, regionals that will be put under the spotlight soon if bankruptcy ocurrs (i.e., Comair and ASA) will also likely be judged according to this new BENCHMARK.

Jet Blue has now set the pay benchmark for the 100 seaters in the new LCC environment. Anything less than 100 seats will be compared instantly and proclaimed "non-competitive." If I were a regional pilot right now, I'd be really, really upset - this will limit your income potential going forward. Everyone will be compared with the Jet Blue rates - both the A320 on the mainline side and the E190 on the regional/mainline side (i.e., when Delta mainline flies the 100 seaters eventually). You thought USAirways was evil with its Midatlantic E170 rates - this is worse because it sets a benchmark for BOTH the 100 seat rates and regional rates in general... Ouch! People need to understand the negative implications in this case...

So, for all of you Comair and ASA guys out there who may face pay decreases (and any other regional pilot), don't blame Grinstein too much when your rates eventually decline, blame Neeleman at Jet Blue - the bench has now been lowered for EVERYONE... The race to the bottom continues.

 

[FLB717]

Well said. I was very sorry to see those rates, I thought JBLU had a better handle on thier employee's and the compensation they recieve. Can we say "Union"?

 

[Flying Freddie]

What good is a union going to be. Look at the turmoil with NPA and the infighting. How are you going to negotiate a contract when you are at each others throats. No flame, just the truth and of course AirTran mgt just tells you to grieve it.

 

[satpak77]

career choices

I wonder how many guys at stable RJ carriers, such as Comair, Skywest, etc, are looking at just stay as senior RJ captain, flying brand new jet equipment, and being the senior guy, good days off, etc etc, won't ever make 250K a year but is that even possible today

 

[Daddy]

I can't imagine these guys will do this for long....either the pay OR the retirement (and maybe both) will come up to industry average or there will be a union. My guess is the smart cookies in Mgmt at JBLU will realize that this is low after they hear the grumbling and rethink this and/or up it soon...they don't want a union setting up shop already and those stock options aren't looking too good right now for a lot of people. They're on their honeymoon right now, but it won't last forever if they pull this stuff...this is well below SWA and SWA has a 7.3% matching 401K (compared to JBLU's 3%). The management types at JBLU are looking at what a brand new off-the-street captain will make his 1st 2 years on the 190...the initial guys will be captains to save training costs and involve a seat lock of 2 years...this lower pay scale and seat lock will keep a lot of A320 guys riding it out on the bus til they upgrade. For a new guy...this is actually more than what he would have made going to the right seat of the 320 for 30 months. I think that's how mgmt looked at it, but they didn't foresee how the pilots would look at it and the mistrust it might breed. There's a reason they're the only ones without a union in the business....and it's based on trust...if they feel like they're losing that trust, they'll cough up the dough quick to stave off a union.

 

[Heavy Set]

Jet Blue's management is basically signaling to the pilot group: hey, maybe you should consider bringing unionization to Jet Blue! What a joke! The pilots can't do squat now... Do they want to attract "better than average" pilots or would they like to see all of them go to SWA and AirTran? The debate as to whether pilots should pick Jet Blue or SWA will now be pretty easy - nobody wants to start off at sub-regional rates...

Meanwhile, everyone is castigating DAL pilots who actually want to maintain their industry-leading wages (keep the bar high for others to benchmark). What's this industry coming to? Say bye bye to our decent-paying profession - pretty soon the city bus drivers will be making more than pilots...

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Jet Blue's Management has done the same thing ours at ATA did:

They are betting on the natural propensity of pilots to not give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about anyone underneath them on the seniority list.

Jet Blue pilots have stated that the rates don't affect them currently as most if not all current pilots will be in the left seat of the Airbus.

Only new-hires will have to suffer those rates.

We did the same thing here with our recent concessions and introduction of a 100 seat payscale. Although at the time I thought we had set the lowest standard for such a rate in the major airline industry.

It will only be years down the road that any negative momentum resulting in unionization will have a chance to take hold at Jet Blue after the newness of the job wears off...and the reality of the long-term payrates takes hold.

 

[Thedude]

Why dont we wait and see when they actually start operating the EMB and then will see if that rate still holds

 

[General Lee]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Funny!

 

[Boeingman]

It will only be years down the road that any negative momentum resulting in unionization will have a chance to take hold at Jet Blue after the newness of the job wears off...and the reality of the long-term payrates takes hold.

Problem is those who try and start an organizational campaign most likely will not have their 5 year contracts "renewed".

 

[Heavy Set]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Now that's funny! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha... That would be every newhire's nightmare! Another reason to focus on Fedex, UPS, SWA, Frontier, AirTran, Alaska, AWA and Spirit....